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Post by see2 on Mar 6, 2023 10:20:07 GMT
True neither of us know what would be in the 13+ test, but that test would be to see if the applicant was compatible, i.e. able to exist or occur together without problems, with the 13 year old students already at the school. In my school days (and yours) the exam for 13 year olds was for entry into technical colleges, only rarely did a pupil get a second stab at grammar school Late development is a factor that is not taken into account when selecting who does and who does not fit into the grammar school system. Such people would just fail the test and would be left behind. You can't have a system that's subject to so much variation, it just wouldn't work and the comprehensive system has not worked as well as as the sec. mod combined with the grammar school methodInterestingly for me is that some 20% of students are early developers, this no doubt gives them an advantage over others, they may make up the majority of those who pass the 11+, and do so for no other reason than that they are more developed than others taking the test. On top of that females are in the majority of cases more developed than males throughout the academic years. Starting age was 5 years old. I was put into infant school at four and a half because I could read and do simple maths; do you think that age disparity was to my advantage or disadvantage? Today's kids are put into what is erroneously called pre-school, erroneous because all the evidence I've seen is that it has little scholastic merit unless daubing paper with felt tips and constant babble is classed as education.
Females are physically more developed in terms of puberty from a considerably younger age, that may be the reason.
1. You might be right, all that I'm aware of is that some people claim the 13+ applied to grammar schools. 2. Comprehensive education is, according to the pass level of GCSE doing very well. You may be aware of a particularly good Sec Mod school, but IIRC Secondary Modern schools were of similar construction to comprehensive schools. 3. Everything depends upon whether you are an early developer, an average developer or a late developer. From what you say you seem to be an early developer similar to myself. I remember being able to read, do some printing and knowing the Alphabet before starting school at 4years and 7months of age. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 6, 2023 10:31:41 GMT
No, I prefer a system that deals with all levels of educational needs. Not just with the misguided assessment of the few selected by the use of the inefficient blunt instrument of the 11+. Comprehensive schools offer education at different levels including some at remedial level, they are separated into different streams in the same sort of way grammar schools have an A and a B stream. The comprehension system is misguided. The level of education in the UK is mediocre at best and comprehensives are part of the problem. We need a system where the more talented children can be separated from the mediocre and receive a more technical and academic education . We threw that away in 1967 . Give me a system where the more talented (you still haven't mentioned the numbers leaving grammar schools having failed their exams or who chose to deselect themselves from the system) can be fairly selected leaving the mediocre (your silliness is showing) to follow other paths. The 11+ had more holes in it than a trawlers fishing net. Yet you seem eager to ignore that reality. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 6, 2023 10:33:23 GMT
1. You might be right, all that I'm aware of is that some people claim the 13+ applied to grammar schools. 2. Comprehensive education is, according to the pass level of GCSE doing very well. You may be aware of a particularly good Sec Mod school, but IIRC Secondary Modern schools were of similar construction to comprehensive schools. 3. Everything depends upon whether you are an early developer, an average developer or a late developer. From what you say you seem to be an early developer similar to myself. I remember being able to read, do some printing and knowing the Alphabet before starting school at 4years and 7months of age. You obviously missed my post (may have been at the old place) where some pupils were given a 1950s GCSE exam and all but one failed. It was then revealed that the exam they had been given was a 1950s 11-plus.  In all probability you learnt simple 3Rs because your family taught you, not because you went to a bloody nursery school. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 6, 2023 10:41:17 GMT
The comprehension system is misguided. The level of education in the UK is mediocre at best and comprehensives are part of the problem. We need a system where the more talented children can be separated from the mediocre and receive a more technical and academic education . We threw that away in 1967 . Give me a system where the more talented (you still haven't mentioned the numbers leaving grammar schools having failed their exams or who chose to deselect themselves from the system) can be fairly selected leaving the mediocre (your silliness is showing) to follow other paths. The 11+ had more holes in it than a trawlers fishing net. Yet you seem eager to ignore that reality. The 11+( 13+) was a fair system . It selected the brightest pupils fir a more technical and academic education over a more vocational education. Comprehensives led to a mediocre education for all . Stop your insults about ‘silliness is showing’.It suggests that you are losing the argument and are resorting to your usual trolling . Any more of that and it’s ❤️ |
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Post by see2 on Mar 6, 2023 11:10:54 GMT
Give me a system where the more talented (you still haven't mentioned the numbers leaving grammar schools having failed their exams or who chose to deselect themselves from the system) can be fairly selected leaving the mediocre (your silliness is showing) to follow other paths. The 11+ had more holes in it than a trawlers fishing net. Yet you seem eager to ignore that reality. The 11+( 13+) was a fair system . It selected the brightest pupils fir a more technical and academic education over a more vocational education. Comprehensives led to a mediocre education for all . Stop your insults about ‘silliness is showing’.It suggests that you are losing the argument and are resorting to your usual trolling . Any more of that and it’s ❤️ I see the use of the term mediocre ("of only average quality; not very good" as an insult, proven wrong by the 45% of Comp educated students gaining GCSE certification. The rest is just your opinion made before and after the faults of the 11+ had been pointed out. Obviously we have taken this as far as it can go in both directions |
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Post by see2 on Mar 6, 2023 11:19:35 GMT
1. You might be right, all that I'm aware of is that some people claim the 13+ applied to grammar schools. 2. Comprehensive education is, according to the pass level of GCSE doing very well. You may be aware of a particularly good Sec Mod school, but IIRC Secondary Modern schools were of similar construction to comprehensive schools. 3. Everything depends upon whether you are an early developer, an average developer or a late developer. From what you say you seem to be an early developer similar to myself. I remember being able to read, do some printing and knowing the Alphabet before starting school at 4years and 7months of age. You obviously missed my post (may have been at the old place) where some pupils were given a 1950s GCSE exam and all but one failed. It was then revealed that the exam they had been given was a 1950s 11-plus. In all probability you learnt simple 3Rs because your family taught you, not because you went to a bloody nursery school. Given that students were at GCSE level when given an 11+ exam then one would expect them all to pass. I received no encouragement in education from my parents I did do a bit of listening and learning from my older brother who was already at school. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 6, 2023 11:30:16 GMT
What criteria are you using to measure success? The previously mentioned percentage of people passing the GCSE tests. Not sure that is particularly accurate given the massive grade inflation we have seen over the years.  |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 6, 2023 14:15:17 GMT
The 11+( 13+) was a fair system . It selected the brightest pupils fir a more technical and academic education over a more vocational education. Comprehensives led to a mediocre education for all . Stop your insults about ‘silliness is showing’.It suggests that you are losing the argument and are resorting to your usual trolling . Any more of that and it’s ❤️ I see the use of the term mediocre ("of only average quality; not very good" as an insult, proven wrong by the 45% of Comp educated students gaining GCSE certification. The rest is just your opinion made before and after the faults of the 11+ had been pointed out. Obviously we have taken this as far as it can go in both directions The pass rate might say more about how hard the exam is than how educated the pupil is who passed it . The highest CSE pass was considered a C grade GCE pass. Mixing them up and calling them GCSEs suggests a compromise and it is pretty much common knowledge that GCSEs do not compare with GCEs. However let’s agree to disagree. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 6, 2023 14:16:27 GMT
The previously mentioned percentage of people passing the GCSE tests. Not sure that is particularly accurate given the massive grade inflation we have seen over the years. Indeed. This is well known but lefties try to gaslight us into believe otherwise . |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 6, 2023 16:05:46 GMT
Is this yet another EUSSR stitchup?....Why would a non member of a club pay for membership?.........I think that GB is sick and tired of being walked all over by all and sundry. It can't go on. Britain could be stung by EU demands to cough up for two years' worth of Horizon membership fees despite being blocked from Brussels' flagship research scheme over Northern Ireland row, science minister George Freeman warns Science minister George Freeman says 'door is open' for Britain to rejoin Horizon But he suggests wrangling over cash could yet scupper hopes of UK-EU deal www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11826257/UK-plan-rejoin-EUs-Horizon-scheme-jeopardised-cash-demands-science-minister-suggests.html |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 6, 2023 18:17:36 GMT
1. You might be right, all that I'm aware of is that some people claim the 13+ applied to grammar schools. 2. Comprehensive education is, according to the pass level of GCSE doing very well. You may be aware of a particularly good Sec Mod school, but IIRC Secondary Modern schools were of similar construction to comprehensive schools. 3. Everything depends upon whether you are an early developer, an average developer or a late developer. From what you say you seem to be an early developer similar to myself. I remember being able to read, do some printing and knowing the Alphabet before starting school at 4years and 7months of age. You obviously missed my post (may have been at the old place) where some pupils were given a 1950s GCSE exam and all but one failed. It was then revealed that the exam they had been given was a 1950s 11-plus. In all probability you learnt simple 3Rs because your family taught you, not because you went to a bloody nursery school. Or maybe 1950's questions weren't relevant today and kids didn't know about LSD or ounces. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 6, 2023 18:21:01 GMT
I see the use of the term mediocre ("of only average quality; not very good" as an insult, proven wrong by the 45% of Comp educated students gaining GCSE certification. The rest is just your opinion made before and after the faults of the 11+ had been pointed out. Obviously we have taken this as far as it can go in both directions The pass rate might say more about how hard the exam is than how educated the pupil is who passed it . The highest CSE pass was considered a C grade GCE pass. Mixing them up and calling them GCSEs suggests a compromise and it is pretty much common knowledge that GCSEs do not compare with GCEs. However let’s agree to disagree. Nice one. If more kids pass it can't be because they're cleverer than before, it must be the exams easier. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 6, 2023 18:34:38 GMT
The pass rate might say more about how hard the exam is than how educated the pupil is who passed it . The highest CSE pass was considered a C grade GCE pass. Mixing them up and calling them GCSEs suggests a compromise and it is pretty much common knowledge that GCSEs do not compare with GCEs. However let’s agree to disagree. Nice one. If more kids pass it can't be because they're cleverer than before, it must be the exams easier. At least you have got one thing right . Well done . |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 6, 2023 18:46:43 GMT
The pass rate might say more about how hard the exam is than how educated the pupil is who passed it . The highest CSE pass was considered a C grade GCE pass. Mixing them up and calling them GCSEs suggests a compromise and it is pretty much common knowledge that GCSEs do not compare with GCEs. However let’s agree to disagree. Nice one. If more kids pass it can't be because they're cleverer than before, it must be the exams easier. Be good if it were true though - just think, kids get 3 times as clever in just 30 years..  |
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Post by see2 on Mar 6, 2023 18:48:38 GMT
The previously mentioned percentage of people passing the GCSE tests. Not sure that is particularly accurate given the massive grade inflation we have seen over the years. Not sure what your point is, what I can see is a continued improvement in the percentages of people passing GCSEs at various levels. Backed presumably by the comprehensive system. |
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