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Post by jonksy on Mar 2, 2023 13:10:14 GMT
I agree. How could any unionist vote for this given that we still have an EUSSR customs post within UK and we still have to consider whether the UK should adopt EUSSR laws. Boris attacks Rishi Sunak's Northern Ireland Brexit deal saying it will not 'take back control' from the EU and suggests he could vote against it as he uses London speech to criticise successor - and sing an Oompa-Loompa song Ex-PM said he would find it 'very difficult' to vote for the Windsor Framework Johnson's intervention came as PM gathered Tory MPs at awayday in Berkshire www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11812203/Boris-Johnson-attacks-Rishi-Sunaks-Brexit-deal-saying-not-control.html |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2023 16:42:05 GMT
Yes - I remember when the selective schools turned into Comps - the quality of the State education system draining away before our very eyes. The advantage that the grammars had was that they didn’t have the worst pupils in the first place. Everyone there had abilities over the 11 plus baseline . We were streamed after the first year into As and Bs. The As were essentially hot housed. The rest if us were put into B classes and for some reason moved around into after the 3 year. The whole tone seemed to fall after the school became , essentially, a secondary modern with knobs on . The teachers who told us that we were the elite suddenly had to deal with the unteachables and the mediocre. As an aside ,I wasn’t really interested by the 3rd year but that was my problem . There was another advantage the Grammars had, most of there pupils came from well educated parents who were consequently better off. So the schools were better funded attracting better teachers. A virtuous circle? |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 2, 2023 16:49:13 GMT
The advantage that the grammars had was that they didn’t have the worst pupils in the first place. Everyone there had abilities over the 11 plus baseline . We were streamed after the first year into As and Bs. The As were essentially hot housed. The rest if us were put into B classes and for some reason moved around into after the 3 year. The whole tone seemed to fall after the school became , essentially, a secondary modern with knobs on . The teachers who told us that we were the elite suddenly had to deal with the unteachables and the mediocre. As an aside ,I wasn’t really interested by the 3rd year but that was my problem . There was another advantage the Grammars had, most of there pupils came from well educated parents who were consequently better off. So the schools were better funded attracting better teachers. A virtuous circle? Our grammar had children from parents of all types. My Dad was a tyre fitter. We had pupils who received free school dinners iirc Our school wasn’t funded by the parents either. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2023 16:52:03 GMT
I see a different slant Steve, but no real difference. What am I missing? |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2023 16:54:21 GMT
There was another advantage the Grammars had, most of there pupils came from well educated parents who were consequently better off. So the schools were better funded attracting better teachers. A virtuous circle? Our grammar has children from parents of all types. My Dad was a tyre fitter. We had pupils who received free school dinners iirc Our school wasn’t funded by the parents either. None of them were 'funded' by parents, but schools in better off areas still end up with more money. That appeal for new gym equipment or a new minibus. That stops such things coming from the school budget. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 2, 2023 17:06:26 GMT
Our grammar has children from parents of all types. My Dad was a tyre fitter. We had pupils who received free school dinners iirc Our school wasn’t funded by the parents either. None of them were 'funded' by parents, but schools in better off areas still end up with more money. That appeal for new gym equipment or a new minibus. That stops such things coming from the school budget. Grammars were placed in all places . Not just ‘ better off areas’ with ‘ well educated parents ‘. We never had a new minibus either and the gym equipment was well worn 🙄 |
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Post by see2 on Mar 2, 2023 17:07:33 GMT
I agree. How could any unionist vote for this given that we still have an EUSSR customs post within UK and we still have to consider whether the UK should adopt EUSSR laws. Boris attacks Rishi Sunak's Northern Ireland Brexit deal saying it will not 'take back control' from the EU and suggests he could vote against it as he uses London speech to criticise successor - and sing an Oompa-Loompa song Ex-PM said he would find it 'very difficult' to vote for the Windsor Framework Johnson's intervention came as PM gathered Tory MPs at awayday in Berkshire www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11812203/Boris-Johnson-attacks-Rishi-Sunaks-Brexit-deal-saying-not-control.htmlIts pretty clear by now that you prefer your UKSSR version of the world, |
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Post by see2 on Mar 2, 2023 17:19:30 GMT
And you should be interested in the damage Thatcher did to state schools. Shelf fillers and unemployed? You are lost in the ideal world Thatcher produced. Since the 1980s when so many small and not so small engineering firms went to the wall, shelf fillers and Mac Jobs have been the main areas of employment for millions of working people. Nothing to do with a lack of education, all to do with Thatcher's Corner Shop come right wing ideology. In 1990 I personally ditched 30 years in the diminishing areas of work in engineering and retrained into a professional position. You still haven't realised that I detested Thatcher despite my telling you on more than one occasion. As to the remaindser of your post, too many who go to uni are not clever enough for it, they're duffers. My post was not about Thatcher per se, it was about the damage she did to education and to jobs. If you can show me the Uni. results over the years that prove your case, I will accept it. Meanwhile I have to keep in mind the reaction of those on the Right of politics who want to blame all problems on the Labour party, even though the Right of politics have dominated Parliament since 1951. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 2, 2023 17:22:44 GMT
The advantage that the grammars had was that they didn’t have the worst pupils in the first place. Everyone there had abilities over the 11 plus baseline . We were streamed after the first year into As and Bs. The As were essentially hot housed. The rest if us were put into B classes and for some reason moved around into after the 3 year. The whole tone seemed to fall after the school became , essentially, a secondary modern with knobs on . The teachers who told us that we were the elite suddenly had to deal with the unteachables and the mediocre. As an aside ,I wasn’t really interested by the 3rd year but that was my problem . There was another advantage the Grammars had, most of there pupils came from well educated parents who were consequently better off. So the schools were better funded attracting better teachers. A virtuous circle? Yes, for the benefit of the few. |
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Post by Steve on Mar 2, 2023 17:27:29 GMT
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2023 17:45:58 GMT
None of them were 'funded' by parents, but schools in better off areas still end up with more money. That appeal for new gym equipment or a new minibus. That stops such things coming from the school budget. Grammars were placed in all places . Not just ‘ better off areas’ with ‘ well educated parents ‘. We never had a new minibus either and the gym equipment was well worn 🙄 Then you were unlucky. Fact is more educated children got into grammar schools and they tend to come from better off parents. Same with private schools, same with schools around Cambridge where I live. In a town full of scientific institutes take a guess at the average academic level of the children. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2023 17:56:20 GMT
The DM says "But in its own document on the agreement, the EU says the brake can be deployed only against amendments and updates to existing laws, rather than new legislation from Brussels." Surely no one expects to be able to put a brake on any new legislation coming out of Brussels, that's tantamount to the UK government telling the EU what laws they can make. In principle if this current agreement works then "the brake can be deployed only against amendments and updates to existing laws" is all that will ever be needed. It means the EU cannot change laws already agreed and if the legislation is written well then any new laws from the EU would not effect this agreement. I can see clever lawyers (And I deal with my own fair share of their scaremongering) might say its just possible, but if that is the level of control then no agreement will ever be made. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 2, 2023 17:59:38 GMT
Grammars were placed in all places . Not just ‘ better off areas’ with ‘ well educated parents ‘. We never had a new minibus either and the gym equipment was well worn 🙄 Then you were unlucky. Fact is more educated children got into grammar schools and they tend to come from better off parents. Same with private schools, same with schools around Cambridge where I live. In a town full of scientific institutes take a guess at the average academic level of the children. Nonsense, they tend to come from one or two more intelligent parents and though there's a body of opinion that cites environment as a factor, many very young kids show a high intelligence well before environmerntal factors kick in. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 2, 2023 18:59:18 GMT
Grammars were placed in all places . Not just ‘ better off areas’ with ‘ well educated parents ‘. We never had a new minibus either and the gym equipment was well worn 🙄 Then you were unlucky. Fact is more educated children got into grammar schools and they tend to come from better off parents. Same with private schools, same with schools around Cambridge where I live. In a town full of scientific institutes take a guess at the average academic level of the children. It’s not a fact . It’s something you have made up. Our school was a perfectly ordinary primary school just as the other primary schools were where the children took the 11plus. We had pupils from all incomes . I had a bus pass , others had contract buses , some had free school dinners . The claim that grammar schools were for the privileged is a downright lie. Just as comparing a grammar tech with a private school is down right dishonest. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 2, 2023 19:29:11 GMT
Then you were unlucky. Fact is more educated children got into grammar schools and they tend to come from better off parents. Same with private schools, same with schools around Cambridge where I live. In a town full of scientific institutes take a guess at the average academic level of the children. It’s not a fact . It’s something you have made up. Our school was a perfectly ordinary primary school just as the other primary schools were where the children took the 11plus. We had pupils from all incomes . I had a bus pass , others had contract buses , some had free school dinners . The claim that grammar schools were for the privileged is a downright lie. Just as comparing a grammar tech with a private school is down right dishonest. Same here. My primary schools (we had a separate infant and junior school back in those days) were, in both cases, in the middle of a working class area some 15 miles west of London; there were very few wealthy or highly educated people there and housing was probably 95% council owned. Our classes at junior school had some 50 pupils yet educational and learning standards were high.....or else; you could hear a pin drop. The smallest class was for those who never stood a chance of even spelling "exam" let alone taking part, so they were taught things to do with their hands rather than with their brain; from there they usually went to a special school for the ESN and many came out and got a job sweeping a factory floor or other similar job, they had no expectations of a top job though one I knew became a good baker. My class had 52, ot of which 17 passed the 11-plus and I doubt you could have maintained grammar school learning levels with more than 4 or 5 more of the 52 and those who failed often went on to take an exam at 13 which, if passed, would land them in a tech college. Four or five of my schoolmates from junior school went to tech and did well after they left. Girls who passed a tech exam usually went into a commercial tech college, my sister went to Twickenham doing office studies, learning shorthand and typing, they also had budding jourmalist boys in their class. All in all a much better system than we had from the mid-60s. |
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