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Post by Toreador on Mar 1, 2023 21:14:15 GMT
I was the last of the grammar schoolboys in my town. The next year it turned comprehensive . Even I saw the negative effect of mixing the bright with the dull . The mix did not take place in the class rooms. That is one of the basic reasons for a comprehensive school. i.e. to deal with different levels of ability allowing people to move between the levels as required.
Just out of curiosity, what in your experience was the level of academic success at the grammar school you went to? It didn't work, as someone said, the level dropped to the lowest common denominator. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 1, 2023 21:17:11 GMT
Had there been enough grammar schools in the first place and a better way of selecting people for them, perhaps comprehensives would not have been necessary. The Bottom line is that Comps give more people the opportunity to reach a higher education level than the 11+/Grammar schools ever did. Hahaha, the idea of grammar schools was to provide a level of education and training in preparation for entry to higher education like, for instance, university. Universities at that time had an intake of well taught, intelligent people. The Wilson government then introduced comprehensives which had the effect of an overall reduction in educational standards. They could still teach up to O-level standard providing of course they could recruit teachers qualified to that level and without having to wear sandals, jeans, sweaters and be called Fred or whatever their name was, that was what happened in the late sixties. Teacher training colleges were set up to turn out many left leaning indoctrinating morons to the point where many decent people wouldn't even venture. Nowadays you can go to uni with an IQ way below what would have gained entry 70 years ago, You can study police forensics to land a job in an ice cream parlour or a degree that no one had a use for; It hasn't improved. I think you are ignoring too much and confusing too much. Can you give evidence on your claim of --"Nowadays you can go to uni with an IQ way below what would have gained entry 70 years ago"? Obviously a reasonable level of intelligence is required to make advances in education, but in my experience having worked alongside a number of Uni. educated individuals, a high IQ is not required in order to be successful in academia. Passing exams is one thing, applying one's knowledge into practical use is something else. Perhaps you are confusing the issue with the Further Education systems that were given the status of Universities by NL and were filled with people who did not make it to proper universities? But that is a different debate. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 1, 2023 21:22:31 GMT
The mix did not take place in the class rooms. That is one of the basic reasons for a comprehensive school. i.e. to deal with different levels of ability allowing people to move between the levels as required.
Just out of curiosity, what in your experience was the level of academic success at the grammar school you went to? It didn't work, as someone said, the level dropped to the lowest common denominator. That's an easy comment to make, especially by those who want to blame Labour for everything and anything that goes wrong. Starting with the Tory party. The point might be correct even though it certainly sounds silly. The reality is in the evidence, do you, or does anyone else have evidence of this claim? |
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Post by see2 on Mar 1, 2023 21:35:11 GMT
I was the last of the grammar schoolboys in my town. The next year it turned comprehensive . Even I saw the negative effect of mixing the bright with the dull . Yes - I remember when the selective schools turned into Comps - the quality of the State education system draining away before our very eyes. Never more so than under Thatcher's Grant Maintained Systom. __"Grant-maintained schools or GM schools were state schools in England and Wales between 1988 and 1998 that had opted out of local government control, being funded directly by a grant from central government."__ It left the majority of state schools underfunded and saw many experienced teachers taking early retirement. The madness was thankfully dumped in 1998 by NL. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 1, 2023 21:43:23 GMT
Hahaha, the idea of grammar schools was to provide a level of education and training in preparation for entry to higher education like, for instance, university. Universities at that time had an intake of well taught, intelligent people. The Wilson government then introduced comprehensives which had the effect of an overall reduction in educational standards. They could still teach up to O-level standard providing of course they could recruit teachers qualified to that level and without having to wear sandals, jeans, sweaters and be called Fred or whatever their name was, that was what happened in the late sixties. Teacher training colleges were set up to turn out many left leaning indoctrinating morons to the point where many decent people wouldn't even venture. Nowadays you can go to uni with an IQ way below what would have gained entry 70 years ago, You can study police forensics to land a job in an ice cream parlour or a degree that no one had a use for; It hasn't improved. I think you are ignoring too much and confusing too much. Can you give evidence on your claim of --"Nowadays you can go to uni with an IQ way below what would have gained entry 70 years ago" Obviously a reasonable level of intelligence is required to make advances in education, but in my experience having worked alongside a number of Uni. educated individuals, a high IQ is not required in order to be successful in academia. Passing exams is one thing, applying one's knowledge into practical use is something else. Perhaps you are confusing the issue with the Further Education systems that were given the status of Universities by NL and were filled with people who did not make it to proper universities? But that is a different debate. You have to remember there were far fewer universities 70 years ago and the IQ of those in the top ones was around 125 or more and that's probably still true still be true; lower universities are some 15 lower than that. I did further education because my old man didn't think uni was any good and wouldn't have financed me. Instead I did chemistry physics and maths to National Certificate grade as evening courses and subsequently daytime/evening mix, the course was equivalent to an Inter BSC; I gave up two months before I took the exam because I decided I didn't want a poorly paid job and changed jobs to earn three times what I'd been earning. I was 21 and two years later I met my wife and we bought a house before we married, something my laboratory job would never have financed. IQ is about the ability to solve problems and even foresee them based on information; my forte was female meteorology, I could look at a woman and tell whether.  |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 1, 2023 21:45:23 GMT
It didn't work, as someone said, the level dropped to the lowest common denominator. That's an easy comment to make, especially by those who want to blame Labour for everything and anything that goes wrong. Starting with the Tory party. The point might be correct even though it certainly sounds silly. The reality is in the evidence, do you, or does anyone else have evidence of this claim? No good directing that at me I have no time for any of the major parties. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 1, 2023 21:46:39 GMT
Yes - I remember when the selective schools turned into Comps - the quality of the State education system draining away before our very eyes. Never more so than under Thatcher's Grant Maintained Systom. __"Grant-maintained schools or GM schools were state schools in England and Wales between 1988 and 1998 that had opted out of local government control, being funded directly by a grant from central government."__ It left the majority of state schools underfunded and saw many experienced teachers taking early retirement. The madness was thankfully dumped in 1998 by NL. Labour dumped because it didn't fit their idealogy. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 1, 2023 21:59:41 GMT
I think you are ignoring too much and confusing too much. Can you give evidence on your claim of --"Nowadays you can go to uni with an IQ way below what would have gained entry 70 years ago" Obviously a reasonable level of intelligence is required to make advances in education, but in my experience having worked alongside a number of Uni. educated individuals, a high IQ is not required in order to be successful in academia. Passing exams is one thing, applying one's knowledge into practical use is something else. Perhaps you are confusing the issue with the Further Education systems that were given the status of Universities by NL and were filled with people who did not make it to proper universities? But that is a different debate. You have to remember there were far fewer universities 70 years ago and the IQ of those in the top ones was around 125 or more and that's probably still true still be true; lower universities are some 15 lower than that. I did further education because my old man didn't think uni was any good and wouldn't have financed me. Instead I did chemistry physics and maths to National Certificate grade as evening courses and subsequently daytime/evening mix, the course was equivalent to an Inter BSC; I gave up two months before I took the exam because I decided I didn't want a poorly paid job and changed jobs to earn three times what I'd been earning. I was 21 and two years later I met my wife and we bought a house before we married, something my laboratory job would never have financed. IQ is about the ability to solve problems and even foresee them based on information; my forte was female meteorology, I could look at a woman and tell whether. We seem to have followed a not too dissimilar experience, but my conversion to status and increased income came much later in life. So I have tasted both sides of the capitalist system, and a number of different educational systems. Yes I take your point on IQ, but there are a number of personality traits, like determination or emotional need along with having a good memory that can drive people to academic success. A simple driver to recognise is for those who love to sit tests and those who get to feel over apprehensive when faced with a test. I know of two intelligent people in decent jobs who feel sick when faced with a written test. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 1, 2023 22:14:25 GMT
Never more so than under Thatcher's Grant Maintained Systom. __"Grant-maintained schools or GM schools were state schools in England and Wales between 1988 and 1998 that had opted out of local government control, being funded directly by a grant from central government."__ It left the majority of state schools underfunded and saw many experienced teachers taking early retirement. The madness was thankfully dumped in 1998 by NL. Labour dumped because it didn't fit their idealogy. Were you in favour of seeing what were Good schools being left to deteriorate through lack of funding, and Teachers pay being eaten away to the extent that experienced Teachers started taking early retirement? What effect on the moral do think that had on the kids going into run down schools. I saw to good schools turned into hovels, I entered one of them to take a Sign Language test in the early 1990s I saw wall paper hanging off the walls in some places, and some broken windows boarded up and a gym made out of bounds because of a leaking roof. What Thatcher did was damaging to education and a shameful example of her callous approach to people. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 1, 2023 22:30:41 GMT
Yes - I remember when the selective schools turned into Comps - the quality of the State education system draining away before our very eyes. Never more so than under Thatcher's Grant Maintained Systom. __"Grant-maintained schools or GM schools were state schools in England and Wales between 1988 and 1998 that had opted out of local government control, being funded directly by a grant from central government."__ It left the majority of state schools underfunded and saw many experienced teachers taking early retirement. The madness was thankfully dumped in 1998 by NL. Dont be daft - Thatcher closed more Grammar schools than any other education minister. It was the closing of Grammar schools that killed off access to the best education by the poorest kids - Wilson, Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher, Major all went to State schools. Then the privately educated took over Blair, Brown, Cameron - May got a final look in as a Grammar school kid but then it was back to the private sector with Johnson. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 1, 2023 22:41:37 GMT
Never more so than under Thatcher's Grant Maintained Systom. __"Grant-maintained schools or GM schools were state schools in England and Wales between 1988 and 1998 that had opted out of local government control, being funded directly by a grant from central government."__ It left the majority of state schools underfunded and saw many experienced teachers taking early retirement. The madness was thankfully dumped in 1998 by NL. Dont be daft - Thatcher closed more Grammar schools than any other education minister. It was the closing of Grammar schools that killed off access to the best education by the poorest kids - Wilson, Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher, Major all went to State schools. Then the privately educated took over Blair, Brown, Cameron - May got a final look in as a Grammar school kid but then it was back to the private sector with Johnson. That is about the progress to comprehensive schools. My post was about the damage she did to state schools. Not particularly interested in your opinions. |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 2, 2023 2:47:15 GMT
Meanwhile on planet earth rather than planet nog....Why not just accept the fact that you lost and no amount of the remnant bitching will ever change the fact. Your answer on every thread is the same moronic claim. Try and at least be a bit interesting. Your side lost so get over it and move on FFS. |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 2, 2023 2:48:10 GMT
Who aprt from you ever cares what you say. Me. Remnants are all tarred with the same brush. |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 2, 2023 2:50:58 GMT
Who aprt from you ever cares what you say. Errm, what's the point in posting on a forum if you are not interested in reading other people's posts? 🤣🤔🙃 Maybe if some had some new excuses and views it would be worth listening too. We leavers have heqred it all before and know the remnants song and all the verses of by heart. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 2, 2023 7:22:52 GMT
Never more so than under Thatcher's Grant Maintained Systom. __"Grant-maintained schools or GM schools were state schools in England and Wales between 1988 and 1998 that had opted out of local government control, being funded directly by a grant from central government."__ It left the majority of state schools underfunded and saw many experienced teachers taking early retirement. The madness was thankfully dumped in 1998 by NL.
It was the closing of Grammar schools that killed off access to the best education by the poorest kids - Wilson, Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher, Major all went to State schools. Then the privately educated took over Blair, Brown, Cameron - May got a final look in as a Grammar school kid but then it was back to the private sector with Johnson. That is correct and something I wrote a while ago. Her excuse was thatwhen she served as education minister under Heath, too many grammars had got so far into the conversion that it would cause more damage than stopping the process, as ever a politician lying. |
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