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Post by Pacifico on Feb 19, 2023 18:01:00 GMT
But that no longer matters since the GFA replaced majority rule with cross-community consensus. The point though is the direction of travel from what was once the protestant unionist dominated sectarian apartheid state , to unionism being in a minority , with unionsim refusing to power share as they dont want to serve under a democratically elected sinn fein first minister in a province that is in the EU and has a majority support for both the Eu and the current protocol.
The GFA and cross community consensus backing northern ireland in the EU is a great thing isnt it?
If hanging on by the skin of your teeth in the 6 counties is standing firm as my friend om describes it , i would hate to see you losing.
I dont understand your point - SF boycotted the Assembly for 2 years, so what is special about the Unionists refusing to take part? As far as your claim about majority support for the Protocol - correct me if I am wrong - but I dont believe there is a single representative of the Unionist community who supports the Protocol as currently agreed. Given that what do you expect them to do? |
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Post by Steve on Feb 19, 2023 21:33:29 GMT
IIRC Blair lost in England in 2005 but Scotland and Wales saved him his job. very likely, the SNP would have been in single figures then so most Scottish seats will have gone to Labour And post Iraq that was a much closer election for Blair |
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Post by thomas on Feb 20, 2023 7:51:32 GMT
No the groundwork was done by Alec Salmond. He left the snp riding high in the polls and ended labours dominance as the party of scotland .
Labour are struggling with the constitutional question in scotland as they are in england with brexit . On top of that scots voters clearly want different things from englands voters , yet england is where starmer needs to win to win westminter.
There is a difference between hope and understanding things on the ground steve . I hope labour under starmer dont let you down too much .
Dont take it from me though listen to the experts.....
Could Labour Profit From Nicola Sturgeon’s Resignation?
In truth, to date Scottish Labour has largely appeared to be riding on the coattails of the Conservatives’ misfortune at Westminster.
One further indication that Scottish Labour’s progress has largely not been home-grown is the absence of any increase in the popularity of the party’s Scottish leader, Anas Sarwar.
If Labour is to have more than marginal success at eroding the SNP’s electoral base, it will either need to persuade more Yes voters of the case for the Union or at least to put aside their constitutional preference in how they vote.
That task is not made any easier by the fact that, in the face of the SNP’s avowedly anti-Brexit stance, Labour finds it much more difficult to secure the support of Remain supporters in Scotland (29%) than it does south of the border (57%) – indeed the Scottish party’s popularity among 2014 Remain voters is almost matched by that among their Leave counterparts (27%). Meanwhile, the current level of antagonism and disputation between the UK and the Scottish governments might prove a difficult backdrop against which to try and persuade Yes supporting Scots that they should invest their hopes in the prospect of a better working relationship between Holyrood and Westminster. Much, of course, will depend on the political acumen and skills of the SNP’s new leader, but either way, there is clearly still plenty of work for Anas Sarwar to do if Scottish Labour really are going to mount a significant challenge to the nationalists’ current domination of Scottish politics.
Remember when you said, it is up to us to keep a Labour party government from happening, erm no we have shown them we can do that, so now its your turn in the barrel and talk about nothing but the Westminster party. just helping steve understand the problems his majestys british imperial labour party face in scotland. I wont be voting for them in this union our out of it for any reason whatsoever.
England , not scotland , where 82 % of westmisnter constituencies are , is where starmers lot need to win to win westmisnter.
There is no evidence whatsoever of large scale movement from left leaning scot indy supporters back to starmers new labour outside of the wishfull thinking of the select few. Would english brexiters vote for europhile starmer on mass?
The man who spent 3 years if not more disrespecting a democratic vote to leave the EU?
Labour are a spent despised force in scotland , fighting with the other two brit nat parties for voters. Their one hope is indy supporters stay at home and they get a low turnout come the next vote as ever.
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Post by thomas on Feb 20, 2023 7:58:47 GMT
The point though is the direction of travel from what was once the protestant unionist dominated sectarian apartheid state , to unionism being in a minority , with unionsim refusing to power share as they dont want to serve under a democratically elected sinn fein first minister in a province that is in the EU and has a majority support for both the Eu and the current protocol.
The GFA and cross community consensus backing northern ireland in the EU is a great thing isnt it?
If hanging on by the skin of your teeth in the 6 counties is standing firm as my friend om describes it , i would hate to see you losing.
As far as your claim about majority support for the Protocol - correct me if I am wrong - but I dont believe there is a single representative of the Unionist community who supports the Protocol as currently agreed. Given that what do you expect them to do? Wether they support it or not as we have discussed many many times again pacifico , it exists , and it continues to exist without their consent. Its your conservative party that imposed it on them , no one else.
Boris johnson is the first english prime minister in 300 years of history of this union to give away part of the uk without so much as an anglo saxon whimper.
not that im aware of off hand , but many of their voters supported eu membership , and the majority of the mlas last elected supported the protocol. Only the english conservative party is stopping the cross community consensus applying to the NIP.
Sammy wilson was talking this morning about the latest tory press release and how sunaks proposals are nothing more than tinkering around the edges ,a mere pr stunt for the brexiters back in england.
Why wont the english conservative party respect the wishes of the northern irish unionist community , and apply brexit to northern ireland the same as the rest of the disunited kingdom?
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Post by thomas on Feb 20, 2023 8:08:34 GMT
The point though is the direction of travel from what was once the protestant unionist dominated sectarian apartheid state , to unionism being in a minority , with unionsim refusing to power share as they dont want to serve under a democratically elected sinn fein first minister in a province that is in the EU and has a majority support for both the Eu and the current protocol.
The GFA and cross community consensus backing northern ireland in the EU is a great thing isnt it?
If hanging on by the skin of your teeth in the 6 counties is standing firm as my friend om describes it , i would hate to see you losing.
I dont understand your point - SF boycotted the Assembly for 2 years, so what is special about the Unionists refusing to take part? Its very easy to understand. If you go back to oms earlier post (post 12 on first page) He was talking about how the british prime minister has stood up to every one and everything including in northern ireland
and my points including the one you mention about unionism above is that if the british and their prime minister are holding firm in northern ireland , i would hate to see them on the back foot.
Northern ireland is in the eu much to brexiters extreme annoyance , they have a different relationship to the eu than the rest of us , and unionism is that annoyed about events including the last election it refuses to take part in democracy because its on the back foot.
So my point is despite oms deluded view of northern ireland and what the british are doing , the opposite is of course true. The nip that the english tory party imposed on unionism is a huge embarressment for the british , and of course is driving much annoyance at sunak and the tory hierarchy which is why its being revisited yet again as sunak tries to pick the bones of the agreement clean and get some sort of meat off them to give to brexiters as some sort of triumph.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 20, 2023 8:20:58 GMT
Well from what I am reading this morning Sunaks new 'deal' with the EU is dead in the water due to internal opposition in the Conservative Party.
I think the Unionists have every right to be annoyed - and if SF can refuse to take part in democracy because it was upset over a heating subsidy scheme then why should the Unionist worry?
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 20, 2023 8:22:44 GMT
IIRC Blair lost in England in 2005 but Scotland and Wales saved him his job. very likely, the SNP would have been in single figures then so most Scottish seats will have gone to Labour And post Iraq that was a much closer election for Blair Actually the Lib Dems did that rather more than ‘wales’ did. A close inspection of several constituencies in the forty welsh seats from 2005 shows that voters disgusted with the warmongering shithead deserted the party to the lib dems who as a result naturally came second shaving the majority the labour candidate had to ultra-marginal levels. Had the lib dems not existed a tory victory would have been assured. |
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Post by thomas on Feb 20, 2023 8:22:59 GMT
Well from what I am reading this morning Sunaks new 'deal' with the EU is dead in the water due to internal opposition in the Conservative Party. I think the Unionists have every right to be annoyed - and if SF can refuse to take part in democracy because it was upset over a heating subsidy scheme then why should the Unionist worry? sinn fein were pissed off from memory over the language rights. Unionism is pissed off becuase the english tory party sold them down the river ( again) and gave a constitunent part of the uk away.
Unionism can stay away from stormont til lthe cows come home. Meanwhile while they strop , another day goes by and the protocol remains.
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Post by thomas on Feb 20, 2023 8:24:25 GMT
Well from what I am reading this morning Sunaks new 'deal' with the EU is dead in the water due to internal opposition in the Conservative Party. According to the northern irish it is a joke. See my post on the NIP thread , where sammy wilson calls it tinkering. So its more than the tory party who oppose it. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 20, 2023 11:35:44 GMT
Well from what I am reading this morning Sunaks new 'deal' with the EU is dead in the water due to internal opposition in the Conservative Party. According to the northern irish it is a joke. See my post on the NIP thread , where sammy wilson calls it tinkering. So its more than the tory party who oppose it. The Tories still have an 80 seat majority - it matters not what the DUP think. The problem for Sunak is when the Tories refuse to back it - perhaps he can go cap in hand to Labour and ask them for their support? |
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Post by Steve on Feb 20, 2023 12:49:09 GMT
According to the northern irish it is a joke. See my post on the NIP thread , where sammy wilson calls it tinkering. So its more than the tory party who oppose it. The Tories still have an 80 seat majority - it matters not what the DUP think. The problem for Sunak is when the Tories refuse to back it - perhaps he can go cap in hand to Labour and ask them for their support? It does matter what the DUP think and say because several fundamentalist Tory MPs will want to align with the DUP on this. Sunak will probably have to get very blunt on this with the DUP. 'Back it or you will be voted into political oblivion' might be a useful line. |
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Post by morayloon on Feb 24, 2023 21:21:23 GMT
IIRC Blair lost in England in 2005 but Scotland and Wales saved him his job. Your recollection is dodgy. Without Scottish & Welsh seats there would have been 99 seats less i.e 547 (including NI). For an overall majority 279 seats would have been needed Of the 355 seats won by Labour in the UK in 2005, if you deduct seats won in Scotland & Wales you have 285 English Labour MPs 285, believe it or not, would have meant Labour would have won in rUK (ie minus Scotland & Wales) Only the 1964 & February 1974 elections would have had a different result for England & NI |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2023 23:06:35 GMT
But the problem of course is that after 13 years of Conservative government ... no one is any better off, most people are worse off. So its time for change
The SNP problems are simply icing on the cake for Labour
Its what you may term as been "a perfect storm" for the Tories, its all gone wrong for them, but not least because most people are worse off, there's nothing positive that anyone can say about 13 years of Tory government.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 24, 2023 23:08:17 GMT
But the problem of course is that after 13 years of Conservative government ... no one is any better off, most people are worse off. So its time for change The SNP problems are simply icing on the cake for Labour Its what you may term as been "a perfect storm" for the Tories, its all gone wrong for them, but not least because most people are worse off, there's nothing positive that anyone can say about 13 years of Tory government.Horseshit - it kept Corbyn out of power.. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 24, 2023 23:17:30 GMT
But the problem of course is that after 13 years of Conservative government ... no one is any better off, most people are worse off. So its time for change The SNP problems are simply icing on the cake for Labour Its what you may term as been "a perfect storm" for the Tories, its all gone wrong for them, but not least because most people are worse off, there's nothing positive that anyone can say about 13 years of Tory government.It rattled you and your ilks cage...I find that very positive. |
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