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Post by andrewbrown on Feb 17, 2023 18:36:55 GMT
Well, quite a shock on today's poll in Scotland, seismic change based on new 2023 Westminster boundaries shows half of the SNP seats going to Labour...
Is this a sea change moment in Scottish politics?
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Post by Fairsociety on Feb 17, 2023 19:24:51 GMT
Well, quite a shock on today's poll in Scotland, seismic change based on new 2023 Westminster boundaries shows half of the SNP seats going to Labour... Is this a sea change moment in Scottish politics? Isn't it amazing how well Labour are doing, by doing nothing.
If they win the next GE it will make history as being the only political party that won a GE by saying and doing fuck all.
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Post by andrewbrown on Feb 17, 2023 23:02:33 GMT
Well, if these polls are even vaguely correct, Labour are mopping up seats from the Tories in England and from the SNP in Scotland. I posed the question in the other thread asking what the Tories had to do to win back support, most of the replies were just "but labour". Now the same question is arising in Scotland with the SNP. This poll for me isn't just a "huh", this is a "wtf!". Labour has struggled in Scotland for the best part of 10 years. If the SNP are haemorrhaging support, what do they have to do to win that support back?
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Post by morayloon on Feb 17, 2023 23:47:05 GMT
The only problem with focusing on one poll is that there are always others coming along to tell a different tale. Survation has the SNP 13% in front and Savanta shows the SNP 10% ahead on UK voting intentions. Interestingly both surveys have YES @ 49%. That is up from the 44% on the Ashcroft poll and the 46% found by YouGov. It is still all to play for.
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Post by see2 on Feb 18, 2023 23:43:44 GMT
Well, quite a shock on today's poll in Scotland, seismic change based on new 2023 Westminster boundaries shows half of the SNP seats going to Labour... Is this a sea change moment in Scottish politics? Isn't it amazing how well Labour are doing, by doing nothing.
If they win the next GE it will make history as being the only political party that won a GE by saying and doing fuck all.
Playing their cards right, is not doing "fucking all". |
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Post by see2 on Feb 18, 2023 23:46:21 GMT
Well, quite a shock on today's poll in Scotland, seismic change based on new 2023 Westminster boundaries shows half of the SNP seats going to Labour... Is this a sea change moment in Scottish politics? Off topic I know, but thanks for "sea change" I've always used 'seed change'. Your post caused me to look it up. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 19, 2023 7:56:10 GMT
Well, if these polls are even vaguely correct, Labour are mopping up seats from the Tories in England and from the SNP in Scotland. I posed the question in the other thread asking what the Tories had to do to win back support, most of the replies were just "but labour". Now the same question is arising in Scotland with the SNP. This poll for me isn't just a "huh", this is a "wtf!". Labour has struggled in Scotland for the best part of 10 years. If the SNP are haemorrhaging support, what do they have to do to win that support back? Give up on the grievance politics and concentrate on actual governance - find effective policies to improve the NHS, education etc. Do something to improve Scotlands record on drug death, sort out the failing transport system. All that sounds easy but as was suggested to me in a different forum - devolution led all the parties best performers to migrate to Westminster (where the real power is) and thus what remained in Hollyrood was the 'B' team |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 19, 2023 8:35:16 GMT
Well, quite a shock on today's poll in Scotland, seismic change based on new 2023 Westminster boundaries shows half of the SNP seats going to Labour... Is this a sea change moment in Scottish politics? Fence sitting on this issue will only upset 50% of his potential voters.........He would be frightened to do anything if the unions didn't agree
We all know that the lefty remaniacs are reduced to only straws to clutch but even their tit of a leader isn't that frigging dumb...
Slammer is accused of 'ducking' trans-rights row as sources say Labour leader will make no mention of the issue that helped trigger Nicola Sturgeon's shock resignation in his annual Scottish Conference speech.
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Post by Fairsociety on Feb 19, 2023 9:02:00 GMT
When starmer is interviewed you will probably have to pull teeth to get a straight answer from him, his duck and dive responses, then his face goes bright red like it's going to explode if he's pressed even further for a response.
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Post by thomas on Feb 19, 2023 10:07:22 GMT
Well, if these polls are even vaguely correct, Labour are mopping up seats from the Tories in England and from the SNP in Scotland. I posed the question in the other thread asking what the Tories had to do to win back support, most of the replies were just "but labour". Now the same question is arising in Scotland with the SNP. This poll for me isn't just a "huh", this is a "wtf!". Labour has struggled in Scotland for the best part of 10 years. If the SNP are haemorrhaging support, what do they have to do to win that support back? The latest poll has this for the next UKGE in scotland...
Scottish voting intentions for the next UK general election (Survation, 15th-17th February 2023):
SNP 43% (+1)
Labour 30% (+1)
Conservatives 17% (-)
Liberal Democrats 6% (-1)
Labour has struggled in scotland andrew( im a former scottish labour voter) for two main reasons.
The consitutional question . Labour was always the old party of home rule/ devolution ( two different things) and are now seen as a british nationalist party , who in the main fights for the scottish unionist vote with the tories and liberals. I would highly doubt any scottish independence supporter is going to lend this party their vote , just as a sinn fein voter isnt going to vote DUP.
Second point is new labour politics. It was the last incarnation of new labour under milliband and murphy who lost scotland .It wasnt corbyn.
Couple this red tory style politics , and add in labour telling the majority pro european scottish public they are gonnae try and make brexit work , and i dont think this is going to go down well come voting time.
That labours problem in a nutshell. They cant face two ways at the same time to appease different voters in scotland and england.
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Post by thomas on Feb 19, 2023 10:12:39 GMT
When starmer is interviewed you will probably have to pull teeth to get a straight answer from him, his duck and dive responses, then his face goes bright red like it's going to explode if he's pressed even further for a response. I say once again its a sad state of affairs when a guy who has spent his entire leadership of the labour party sitting on his hands abstaining is potentially on the cusp of being the next uk prime minister by saying and doing nothing.
Cant give an honest answer on things like what a woman is , and what making brexit work means? Eventually he will of course run out of road to duck and dive on , and will have to nail his colours to his mast.
If he does as expected become the next PM , in my opinion the uk is going to become an even bigger bin fire than at present. Starmer isnt going to solve all the underlying long term issues , much of what the last new labour lot helped create when in power.
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Post by om15 on Feb 19, 2023 10:17:56 GMT
Like most people I am very disappointed and exasperated with the Tory Government, but am reluctant to join in the general assumption that they will be wiped out in 18 months time, I am changing my mind slightly.
We know that May, Johnson and Truss were about the worst Prime Ministers in several centuries, certainly in the past two hundred years, and that we dislike Ricky for stabbing Johnson in the back, being rich, not being voted in and so on.
However, without fuss or fanfare he stood up to Sturgeon and put her in such a position that resignation was the only answer, he appears to be holding firm in NI, we don't know the details but he has prepared legislation that he claims is both legal and effective in stopping the migrants, he says that he is prepared to pull out of the ECHR if necessary, he is standing up to Mick Lynch, and he has introduced a calmness into politics, so we'll see.
On the other hand we see Starmer and his floozy taking the knee and not knowing what a women is, we see race baiter Lammy and Abbot stirring it in the background, and no policies stated that he doesn't intend to wriggle out of.
A week is a long time in politics (ask Sturgeon), and 18 months is seventy eight times as long.
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Post by Fairsociety on Feb 19, 2023 10:26:34 GMT
When starmer is interviewed you will probably have to pull teeth to get a straight answer from him, his duck and dive responses, then his face goes bright red like it's going to explode if he's pressed even further for a response. I say once again its a sad state of affairs when a guy who has spent his entire leadership of the labour party sitting on his hands abstaining is potentially on the cusp of being the next uk prime minister by saying and doing nothing.
Cant give an honest answer on things like what a woman is , and what making brexit work means? Eventually he will of course run out of road to duck and dive on , and will have to nail his colours to his mast.
If he does as expected become the next PM , in my opinion the uk is going to become an even bigger bin fire than at present. Starmer isnt going to solve all the underlying long term issues , much of what the last new labour lot helped create when in power.
True, and if and when he does become PM we will see the real Labour agenda, and by him keeping stum now he has the best excuse of all, we can't accuse him of backtracking or lying or promising this, that, and the other, because he isn't saying or doing anything. I suspect he has a good advisor who is telling him to say or do nothing, and it appears to be paying off. ...silence is golden. |
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Post by thomas on Feb 19, 2023 10:32:53 GMT
Like most people I am very disappointed and exasperated with the Tory Government, but am reluctant to join in the general assumption that they will be wiped out in 18 months time, I am changing my mind slightly. We know that May, Johnson and Truss were about the worst Prime Ministers in several centuries, certainly in the past two hundred years, and that we dislike Ricky for stabbing Johnson in the back, being rich, not being voted in and so on. However, without fuss or fanfare he stood up to Sturgeon and put her in such a position that resignation was the only answer, he appears to be holding firm in NI, we don't know the details but he has prepared legislation that he claims is both legal and effective in stopping the migrants, he says that he is prepared to pull out of the ECHR if necessary, he is standing up to Mick Lynch, and he has introduced a calmness into politics, so we'll see. On the other hand we see Starmer and his floozy taking the knee and not knowing what a women is, we see race baiter Lammy and Abbot stirring it in the background, and no policies stated that he doesn't intend to wriggle out of. A week is a long time in politics (ask Sturgeon), and 18 months is seventy eight times as long. i agree with the sentiment of your post apart form this bit..
thats some spin you put right there.
I dont think its so much that new labour are going to win the next general election , its more that the tories seem intent on doing their best to throw it. Sunak and hunt are despised by the party faithfull , who are caught in no mans land between not wanting to foist yet another leader on the disunited kingdom , while having to bite thier lip and grin and bear sunak and hunts leadership.
You are right though , sturgeons resignation was a surprise , and a year and a half is a long time in politics , especially in a political banana republic like the yookay.
Standing firm in northern ireland though? the union lost stormont for the first time in a hundred years in 2017 , the protocol remains , and its the only part of the yookay where a demcoratic election has been ignored because the DUP dont want to serve under a fenian.
You do make me laugh om. If thats holding firm , i would hate to see it when you are losing.
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Post by thomas on Feb 19, 2023 10:36:13 GMT
I say once again its a sad state of affairs when a guy who has spent his entire leadership of the labour party sitting on his hands abstaining is potentially on the cusp of being the next uk prime minister by saying and doing nothing.
Cant give an honest answer on things like what a woman is , and what making brexit work means? Eventually he will of course run out of road to duck and dive on , and will have to nail his colours to his mast.
If he does as expected become the next PM , in my opinion the uk is going to become an even bigger bin fire than at present. Starmer isnt going to solve all the underlying long term issues , much of what the last new labour lot helped create when in power.
True, and if and when he does become PM we will see the real Labour agenda, and by him keeping stum now he has the best excuse of all, we can't accuse him of backtracking or lying or promising this, that, and the other, because he isn't saying or doing anything. I suspect he has a good advisor who is telling him to say or do nothing, and it appears to be paying off. ...silence is golden. Mandelson is advising him , along with the old guard from new labour.
Im coming along to think starmer is going to win the next election , but no where near as big as the polls are making out.
Lets be honest , he has a fifty fifty chance in what is effectively a two horse race. Eventually the cloak of secrecy will be lifted , and starmer will be in the limelight one way or the other. It it goes as i think , labour are going to take such a fucking beating at the following general election i will be surprised if they ever rise again as a political party.
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