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Post by Toreador on Feb 19, 2023 10:44:40 GMT
True, and if and when he does become PM we will see the real Labour agenda, and by him keeping stum now he has the best excuse of all, we can't accuse him of backtracking or lying or promising this, that, and the other, because he isn't saying or doing anything. I suspect he has a good advisor who is telling him to say or do nothing, and it appears to be paying off. ...silence is golden. Mandelson is advising him , along with the old guard from new labour.
Im coming along to think starmer is going to win the next election , but no where near as big as the polls are making out.
Lets be honest , he has a fifty fifty chance in what is effectively a two horse race. Eventually the cloak of secrecy will be lifted , and starmer will be in the limelight one way or the other. It it goes as i think , labour are going to take such a fucking beating at the following general election i will be surprised if they ever rise again as a political party.
He may be running a serious risk if he rejects the left-wing MPs and they stand as independents. They will take some of Labour votes and maybe let in the Tories or Lib Dems. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Feb 19, 2023 10:54:07 GMT
True, and if and when he does become PM we will see the real Labour agenda, and by him keeping stum now he has the best excuse of all, we can't accuse him of backtracking or lying or promising this, that, and the other, because he isn't saying or doing anything. I suspect he has a good advisor who is telling him to say or do nothing, and it appears to be paying off. ...silence is golden. Mandelson is advising him , along with the old guard from new labour.
Im coming along to think starmer is going to win the next election , but no where near as big as the polls are making out.
Lets be honest , he has a fifty fifty chance in what is effectively a two horse race. Eventually the cloak of secrecy will be lifted , and starmer will be in the limelight one way or the other. It it goes as i think , labour are going to take such a fucking beating at the following general election i will be surprised if they ever rise again as a political party.
Mandelson is old school, and knows a thing or two, I doubt it will be a Labour landslide victor because of the Tories last landslide victory, thanks to Johnson.
It will be a close call, but if the political trend continues it will be a Labour victory, ... unfortunately.
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Post by thomas on Feb 19, 2023 11:10:16 GMT
Mandelson is advising him , along with the old guard from new labour.
Im coming along to think starmer is going to win the next election , but no where near as big as the polls are making out.
Lets be honest , he has a fifty fifty chance in what is effectively a two horse race. Eventually the cloak of secrecy will be lifted , and starmer will be in the limelight one way or the other. It it goes as i think , labour are going to take such a fucking beating at the following general election i will be surprised if they ever rise again as a political party.
He may be running a serious risk if he rejects the left-wing MPs and they stand as independents. They will take some of Labour votes and maybe let in the Tories or Lib Dems. I dont know how many times over the years the practical failings of the new labour strategy of ignoring 12 million or more voters largely sympathetic to old labour values to outbribe a million or so tory voters in marginals is doomed to failure in modern yookay politics.
The left had no where to go under blair. All they could do was stop voting in disgust , as we saw when blair in his landslide victory in 2005 secured two million votes less than kinnock did when he lost in 1992.
Today , the left have other parties to go to in scotland , and to a lesser degree wales and then England.
You cant tell them though. Starmer is convinced he has the winning strategy , and it looks to me at best a one hit wonder even if he does win. We can though speculate till the cows come home , but this isnt 1997 , as keir starmer and his advisers are about to find out.
He is going to reopen the festering sore that is the brexit wound , and send England especially into chaos in my opinion. The trouble with new labour is they think everyone is more stupid than they are , and a two year old wean could see through this making brexit work cac .
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Post by thomas on Feb 19, 2023 11:18:06 GMT
Well, if these polls are even vaguely correct, Labour are mopping up seats from the Tories in England and from the SNP in Scotland.
Survation.
@survation
The SNP remain in a strong position in our 1st poll that has fieldwork conducted after Nicola Sturgeon’s surprise resignation last week. At 43% the party would be just 2% shy of their solid 2019 Westminster showing.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 19, 2023 11:35:01 GMT
Standing firm in northern ireland though? the union lost stormont for the first time in a hundred years in 2017 , the protocol remains , and its the only part of the yookay where a demcoratic election has been ignored because the DUP dont want to serve under a fenian. You do make me laugh om. If thats holding firm , i would hate to see it when you are losing. But that no longer matters since the GFA replaced majority rule with cross-community consensus. |
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Post by thomas on Feb 19, 2023 11:53:56 GMT
Standing firm in northern ireland though? the union lost stormont for the first time in a hundred years in 2017 , the protocol remains , and its the only part of the yookay where a demcoratic election has been ignored because the DUP dont want to serve under a fenian. You do make me laugh om. If thats holding firm , i would hate to see it when you are losing. But that no longer matters since the GFA replaced majority rule with cross-community consensus. The point though is the direction of travel from what was once the protestant unionist dominated sectarian apartheid state , to unionism being in a minority , with unionsim refusing to power share as they dont want to serve under a democratically elected sinn fein first minister in a province that is in the EU and has a majority support for both the Eu and the current protocol.
The GFA and cross community consensus backing northern ireland in the EU is a great thing isnt it?
If hanging on by the skin of your teeth in the 6 counties is standing firm as my friend om describes it , i would hate to see you losing.
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Post by Steve on Feb 19, 2023 12:04:37 GMT
Well, quite a shock on today's poll in Scotland, seismic change based on new 2023 Westminster boundaries shows half of the SNP seats going to Labour... . . . Is this a sea change moment in Scottish politics? Arguably the sea change was Sturgeon who transformed the ability of the SNP to win seats at Westminster, now she's gone Labour are bound to mop up |
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Post by thomas on Feb 19, 2023 12:23:56 GMT
Well, quite a shock on today's poll in Scotland, seismic change based on new 2023 Westminster boundaries shows half of the SNP seats going to Labour... . . . Is this a sea change moment in Scottish politics? Arguably the sea change was Sturgeon who transformed the ability of the SNP to win seats at Westminster, now she's gone Labour are bound to mop up No the groundwork was done by Alec Salmond. He left the snp riding high in the polls and ended labours dominance as the party of scotland .
Labour are struggling with the constitutional question in scotland as they are in england with brexit . On top of that scots voters clearly want different things from englands voters , yet england is where starmer needs to win to win westminter.
There is a difference between hope and understanding things on the ground steve . I hope labour under starmer dont let you down too much .
Dont take it from me though listen to the experts.....
Could Labour Profit From Nicola Sturgeon’s Resignation?
In truth, to date Scottish Labour has largely appeared to be riding on the coattails of the Conservatives’ misfortune at Westminster.
One further indication that Scottish Labour’s progress has largely not been home-grown is the absence of any increase in the popularity of the party’s Scottish leader, Anas Sarwar.
If Labour is to have more than marginal success at eroding the SNP’s electoral base, it will either need to persuade more Yes voters of the case for the Union or at least to put aside their constitutional preference in how they vote.
That task is not made any easier by the fact that, in the face of the SNP’s avowedly anti-Brexit stance, Labour finds it much more difficult to secure the support of Remain supporters in Scotland (29%) than it does south of the border (57%) – indeed the Scottish party’s popularity among 2014 Remain voters is almost matched by that among their Leave counterparts (27%). Meanwhile, the current level of antagonism and disputation between the UK and the Scottish governments might prove a difficult backdrop against which to try and persuade Yes supporting Scots that they should invest their hopes in the prospect of a better working relationship between Holyrood and Westminster. Much, of course, will depend on the political acumen and skills of the SNP’s new leader, but either way, there is clearly still plenty of work for Anas Sarwar to do if Scottish Labour really are going to mount a significant challenge to the nationalists’ current domination of Scottish politics.
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Post by sheepy on Feb 19, 2023 12:40:42 GMT
Arguably the sea change was Sturgeon who transformed the ability of the SNP to win seats at Westminster, now she's gone Labour are bound to mop up No the groundwork was done by Alec Salmond. He left the snp riding high in the polls and ended labours dominance as the party of scotland .
Labour are struggling with the constitutional question in scotland as they are in england with brexit . On top of that scots voters clearly want different things from englands voters , yet england is where starmer needs to win to win westminter.
There is a difference between hope and understanding things on the ground steve . I hope labour under starmer dont let you down too much .
Dont take it from me though listen to the experts.....
Could Labour Profit From Nicola Sturgeon’s Resignation?
In truth, to date Scottish Labour has largely appeared to be riding on the coattails of the Conservatives’ misfortune at Westminster.
One further indication that Scottish Labour’s progress has largely not been home-grown is the absence of any increase in the popularity of the party’s Scottish leader, Anas Sarwar.
If Labour is to have more than marginal success at eroding the SNP’s electoral base, it will either need to persuade more Yes voters of the case for the Union or at least to put aside their constitutional preference in how they vote.
That task is not made any easier by the fact that, in the face of the SNP’s avowedly anti-Brexit stance, Labour finds it much more difficult to secure the support of Remain supporters in Scotland (29%) than it does south of the border (57%) – indeed the Scottish party’s popularity among 2014 Remain voters is almost matched by that among their Leave counterparts (27%). Meanwhile, the current level of antagonism and disputation between the UK and the Scottish governments might prove a difficult backdrop against which to try and persuade Yes supporting Scots that they should invest their hopes in the prospect of a better working relationship between Holyrood and Westminster. Much, of course, will depend on the political acumen and skills of the SNP’s new leader, but either way, there is clearly still plenty of work for Anas Sarwar to do if Scottish Labour really are going to mount a significant challenge to the nationalists’ current domination of Scottish politics.
Remember when you said, it is up to us to keep a Labour party government from happening, erm no we have shown them we can do that, so now its your turn in the barrel and talk about nothing but the Westminster party. |
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Post by sheepy on Feb 19, 2023 12:59:03 GMT
Simple facts of the matter the SNP are big on EU and see it as a must, as you are always telling us and the shabby treatment they have dished out instead of opening your eyes underneath the SNP has enjoyed every minute of it, New Labour know they cannot say in England they would rejoin the EU but with the SNP voters behind them they will with a large majority, democracy doesn't come into it as has been proven for 6 years, you will get what you are given, so taking SNP voters will be like taking candy from a baby, once they have done that, it will union and the EU all the way and new labour can say we were right all along, the union was fine as long as it is run from Brussels, which in actual fact the SNP has been saying.
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Post by andrewbrown on Feb 19, 2023 13:31:07 GMT
Simple facts of the matter the SNP are big on EU and see it as a must, as you are always telling us and the shabby treatment they have dished out instead of opening your eyes underneath the SNP has enjoyed every minute of it, New Labour know they cannot say in England they would rejoin the EU but with the SNP voters behind them they will with a large majority, democracy doesn't come into it as has been proven for 6 years, you will get what you are given, so taking SNP voters will be like taking candy from a baby, once they have done that, it will union and the EU all the way and new labour can say we were right all along, the union was fine as long as it is run from Brussels, which in actual fact the SNP has been saying. I love your vision, but don't ever see that happening. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 19, 2023 13:32:43 GMT
Simple facts of the matter the SNP are big on EU and see it as a must, as you are always telling us and the shabby treatment they have dished out instead of opening your eyes underneath the SNP has enjoyed every minute of it, New Labour know they cannot say in England they would rejoin the EU but with the SNP voters behind them they will with a large majority, democracy doesn't come into it as has been proven for 6 years, you will get what you are given, so taking SNP voters will be like taking candy from a baby, once they have done that, it will union and the EU all the way and new labour can say we were right all along, the union was fine as long as it is run from Brussels, which in actual fact the SNP has been saying. but don't ever see that happening. Vision my arse. it's a fucking nightmare. |
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Post by borchester on Feb 19, 2023 13:34:43 GMT
The thing is that Starmer is a barrister and like all good barristers, he won't ask a question until he has the answer. So he will plod on in his dreary, albeit successful manner until he gets into Number Ten, where he will proceed to do not much of anything because that is the sort of government the British like.
The Nats, on the other hand, are Scots. They will win victory after victory until they can't hold back any longer and screaming Shirt Lifters Forever ! they launch their usual mad charge across the heather and get mowed down by southern practicality.
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Post by sheepy on Feb 19, 2023 14:40:24 GMT
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Post by vlk on Feb 19, 2023 16:35:10 GMT
IIRC Blair lost in England in 2005 but Scotland and Wales saved him his job.
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