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Post by Vinny on Feb 14, 2023 10:07:18 GMT
Why are you complaining about a new coal mine Kim? It would vastly reduce the carbon footprint of our steel industry and end dependence on imported coal (shipped on oil powered freighters).
The EU is not a global free trade organisation. It exists to create a federal United States of Europe. Unfortunately it lacks openness and democratic choice on policies. I'm glad to be out, but the treaty change process is underway, I will assess what it becomes and adjust my views if it improves.
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Post by buccaneer on Feb 14, 2023 10:12:52 GMT
They act as though it will solve Britain's domestic issues in an instant. After the GFC in 2008, the UK still lagged in returning to pre-GFC levels in 2013 and the UK was a fully paid up member of the famed Single Market. Lot of good that did the UK economy. pah! Returning back to that status quo will probably only ensure one thing, no strikes for better pay because all the cheap labour will come flooding back in pushing wages down again. The EU never promised an economy to anyone. It facilitated national economic development by securing various beneficiary trade deals with over 80 countries, and the UK was quick to roll them over. What each member nation did within under the terms of the deal was entirely up to them. If the UK didn't benefit from them and others did, it wasn't because of the deals. It was because of UK management, internal systems, backscratchiing and taxation, all under sovereign control. The EU is there to allow greater access to global trade, improve the quality of imports and exports, maintain workers rights and unite to protect the environment over an important part of the globe. The UK has signed three trade treaties, amounting to .08% of its GDP and likely to do great damage to UK farming. It is seriously considering trading with the CPTPP, which has very flexible quality control. As for workers rights, the current Brexit government is ignoring state employees' strikes, and discussing plans to reduce their right to strike, and finally I see no control over a new coal mine or poouring raw sewage into rivers and beaches. The only attempt to regulate the environment is extensions to EU requirements and Sadiq Khan's wet dream of ridding London of traffic. So what has Brexit done for the UK that the UK couldn't have done as a member other than already reducing standards of living? Well, UK bus drivers won't be forced to work 12 consecutive days without a day off, unlike ze Commission's proposals. Workers rights in the UK are by and large equal to or better than the EU's - which meant more EU nationals living and working in the UK. Brexit has already improved that by stopping the entitlement of cheap labour snagging jobs wherever they could. People are now able to strike again and force better paid conditions this was hardly the case when they knew cheap labour could undercut them so they couldn't afford to strike as they had no bargaining power. And BTW, the UK had no other option to roll over those deals because the EU cynically banned the UK from entering trade talks with other nations until it finally departed that burdensome, meddling, rancid bloc.
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Post by Steve on Feb 14, 2023 10:39:30 GMT
' bus drivers won't be forced to work 12 consecutive days without a day off, unlike ze Commission's proposals'
Link please
And maybe you've missed some of the ideas of this government to remove protections from UK workers. Always dressed up as 'getting the benefits of Brexit'
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 14, 2023 11:09:01 GMT
The EU never promised an economy to anyone. It facilitated national economic development by securing various beneficiary trade deals with over 80 countries, and the UK was quick to roll them over. What each member nation did within under the terms of the deal was entirely up to them. If the UK didn't benefit from them and others did, it wasn't because of the deals. It was because of UK management, internal systems, backscratchiing and taxation, all under sovereign control. The EU is there to allow greater access to global trade, improve the quality of imports and exports, maintain workers rights and unite to protect the environment over an important part of the globe. The UK has signed three trade treaties, amounting to .08% of its GDP and likely to do great damage to UK farming. It is seriously considering trading with the CPTPP, which has very flexible quality control. As for workers rights, the current Brexit government is ignoring state employees' strikes, and discussing plans to reduce their right to strike, and finally I see no control over a new coal mine or poouring raw sewage into rivers and beaches. The only attempt to regulate the environment is extensions to EU requirements and Sadiq Khan's wet dream of ridding London of traffic. So what has Brexit done for the UK that the UK couldn't have done as a member other than already reducing standards of living? Well, UK bus drivers won't be forced to work 12 consecutive days without a day off, unlike ze Commission's proposals. Workers rights in the UK are by and large equal to or better than the EU's - which meant more EU nationals living and working in the UK. Brexit has already improved that by stopping the entitlement of cheap labour snagging jobs wherever they could. People are now able to strike again and force better paid conditions this was hardly the case when they knew cheap labour could undercut them so they couldn't afford to strike as they had no bargaining power. And BTW, the UK had no other option to roll over those deals because the EU cynically banned the UK from entering trade talks with other nations until it finally departed that burdensome, meddling, rancid bloc. People across the EU could always strike. And the EU agreed to limit hours over months, not arrange them within that period. . That was between the unions and the employers.in fact it was the EU who restricted the number of hours one could work without a break and introduced the Tachograph. "All relevant vehicles manufactured in the EU since 1 May 2006 must be fitted with digital tachograph heads." WIKI I do wish those who want to discuss the EU actually knew something about it. What I see in the UK is nothing positive from those great opportunities we were promised. Nor even a desire to start.
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Post by Vinny on Feb 14, 2023 11:32:28 GMT
Workers could be undercut by migrant labourers and then be told they were lazy and didn't want to work. Striking became less effective. Yellow Vest protests have been going on since 2018, despite achieving very little. But there they they were not offered referendums. We were. Emmanuel Macron said himself if he were to allow France a referendum it would probably vote leave. www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/21/emmanuel-macron-uk-yes-no-brexit-vote-mistake
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 14, 2023 11:43:46 GMT
in fact it was the EU who restricted the number of hours one could work without a break and introduced the Tachograph. "All relevant vehicles manufactured in the EU since 1 May 2006 must be fitted with digital tachograph heads." WIKI horseshit - it was Barbara Castles 1968 Transport Act that introduced tachographs into the UK. They were made mandatory in the UK in 1982 - the EU didn't make them mandatory across the community until 1986. Ain't that the truth...
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Post by buccaneer on Feb 14, 2023 12:35:22 GMT
Well, UK bus drivers won't be forced to work 12 consecutive days without a day off, unlike ze Commission's proposals. Workers rights in the UK are by and large equal to or better than the EU's - which meant more EU nationals living and working in the UK. Brexit has already improved that by stopping the entitlement of cheap labour snagging jobs wherever they could. People are now able to strike again and force better paid conditions this was hardly the case when they knew cheap labour could undercut them so they couldn't afford to strike as they had no bargaining power. And BTW, the UK had no other option to roll over those deals because the EU cynically banned the UK from entering trade talks with other nations until it finally departed that burdensome, meddling, rancid bloc. People across the EU could always strike. And the EU agreed to limit hours over months, not arrange them within that period. . That was between the unions and the employers.in fact it was the EU who restricted the number of hours one could work without a break and introduced the Tachograph. "All relevant vehicles manufactured in the EU since 1 May 2006 must be fitted with digital tachograph heads." WIKI I do wish those who want to discuss the EU actually knew something about it. What I see in the UK is nothing positive from those great opportunities we were promised. Nor even a desire to start. I wish I was talking with someone who knew the difference between buses and lorries. FoM has ended Kim. A Brexit bonus!
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 14, 2023 12:40:08 GMT
in fact it was the EU who restricted the number of hours one could work without a break and introduced the Tachograph. "All relevant vehicles manufactured in the EU since 1 May 2006 must be fitted with digital tachograph heads." WIKI horseshit - it was Barbara Castles 1968 Transport Act that introduced tachographs into the UK. They were made mandatory in the UK in 1982 - the EU didn't make them mandatory across the community until 1986. Ain't that the truth... So you missed the word DIGITAL. As in the latest version of the control of drivers hours. Next time you pretend to be clever, read properly.
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 14, 2023 12:49:27 GMT
People across the EU could always strike. And the EU agreed to limit hours over months, not arrange them within that period. . That was between the unions and the employers.in fact it was the EU who restricted the number of hours one could work without a break and introduced the Tachograph. "All relevant vehicles manufactured in the EU since 1 May 2006 must be fitted with digital tachograph heads." WIKI I do wish those who want to discuss the EU actually knew something about it. What I see in the UK is nothing positive from those great opportunities we were promised. Nor even a desire to start. I wish I was talking with someone who knew the difference between buses and lorries. FoM has ended Kim. A Brexit bonus! I have no idea what this means. The subject is what is wrong with Boris'Brexit. Why are you going on about buses and lorries when I mentioned workers rights and suddenly the only workers you want to discuss is local public transport. And now you are Bouncing around freedom of movement . What are you on about?? And please use my proper name. I don't know who Kim is but he must have made a deep impression. I already told you where I am . Further my husband is coming home after 6 weeks, for care at home. I am now having to find out if we have to leave Strasbourg or get a special permission to stay the normal 3 months, given his poor state of health. Thanks guys. What was that you were saying about freedom of movement?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2023 12:52:16 GMT
I just wonder what problem these stupid people think rejoining the EU will solve. They act as though it will solve Britain's domestic issues in an instant. After the GFC in 2008, the UK still lagged in returning to pre-GFC levels in 2013 and the UK was a fully paid up member of the famed Single Market. Lot of good that did the UK economy. pah! Returning back to that status quo will probably only ensure one thing, no strikes for better pay because all the cheap labour will come flooding back in pushing wages down again. I note that, although qualified, you have accepted that it will solve Britain's issues. I agree, rejoining will not solve them instantly. Immediately would be the better word. GFC is not comparable to Brexit. GFC is global; Brexit is regional. GFC is global banking and finance; Brexit is regional trading arrangement. Returning to that status quo is the perfect scenario because that status quo gave us all the advantages over other EU countries -- opt out of Eurozone, the Euro, Schengen, rebates, exclusion from the commitment to further political integration and ever-closer union. But that perfect scenario is also poses the biggest question: Will the EU accept the UK with all the opt outs intact?
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Post by Vinny on Feb 14, 2023 13:11:04 GMT
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 14, 2023 16:20:23 GMT
horseshit - it was Barbara Castles 1968 Transport Act that introduced tachographs into the UK. They were made mandatory in the UK in 1982 - the EU didn't make them mandatory across the community until 1986. Ain't that the truth... So you missed the word DIGITAL. As in the latest version of the control of drivers hours. Next time you pretend to be clever, read properly. I did read properly - you said that and i quote: "it was the EU who restricted the number of hours one could work without a break and introduced the Tachograph".So as well as knowing nothing about tachographs apart from what you read on wikipedia you also dont know what you actually wrote yourself.. Anyway digital ones were not available in 1968 - if they were then the UK would still have introduced them before the EU.
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 14, 2023 17:34:07 GMT
So you missed the word DIGITAL. As in the latest version of the control of drivers hours. Next time you pretend to be clever, read properly. I did read properly - you said that and i quote: "it was the EU who restricted the number of hours one could work without a break and introduced the Tachograph".So as well as knowing nothing about tachographs apart from what you read on wikipedia you also dont know what you actually wrote yourself.. Anyway digital ones were not available in 1968 - if they were then the UK would still have introduced them before the EU. THROUGHOUT THE EU for God's sake. I have about had it with this micro dot of a forum that is stuck in a time warp. It is the closest thing I have seen to perpetual revolving motion greased by off topic attempts to avoid fact, by a curious desperate need to justify the result of the referendum, God knows why. The Brexit music seems to live in your heads as if nothing has happened in the last 6 years. And frankly I am inulted by those who refuse to call me by my proper name. I am not a liar. Thanks for filling some time. I will be rather busy in the immediate future, not least feeling rather sorry for those in the UK who are constantly standing on the cliff edge looking for that golden sunrise. However fear not. I may well pop in to have a look. You won't know I am there.
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 14, 2023 17:34:21 GMT
So you missed the word DIGITAL. As in the latest version of the control of drivers hours. Next time you pretend to be clever, read properly. I did read properly - you said that and i quote: "it was the EU who restricted the number of hours one could work without a break and introduced the Tachograph".So as well as knowing nothing about tachographs apart from what you read on wikipedia you also dont know what you actually wrote yourself.. Anyway digital ones were not available in 1968 - if they were then the UK would still have introduced them before the EU. THROUGHOUT THE EU for God's sake. I have about had it with this micro dot of a forum that is stuck in a time warp. It is the closest thing I have seen to perpetual revolving motion greased by off topic attempts to avoid fact, by a curious desperate need to justify the result of the referendum, God knows why. The Brexit music seems to live in your heads as if nothing has happened in the last 6 years. And frankly I am inulted by those who refuse to call me by my proper name. I am not a liar. Thanks for filling some time. I will be rather busy in the immediate future, not least feeling rather sorry for those in the UK who are constantly standing on the cliff edge looking for that golden sunrise. However fear not. I may well pop in to have a look. You won't know I am there.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 14, 2023 18:16:15 GMT
I did read properly - you said that and i quote: "it was the EU who restricted the number of hours one could work without a break and introduced the Tachograph".So as well as knowing nothing about tachographs apart from what you read on wikipedia you also dont know what you actually wrote yourself.. Anyway digital ones were not available in 1968 - if they were then the UK would still have introduced them before the EU. THROUGHOUT THE EU for God's sake. Well as the EU was only following on from the UK's lead then we haven't lost anything by leaving.
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