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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 19, 2023 12:38:51 GMT
This morning the Bulgarian Lev was valued at .51 Euros. If I were an international trading company trading in different currencies across the world, I would prefer to trade in euros when doing business in Bulgaria. It is far easier to know the euro will keep its value when I trade elsewhere. If you want to confine your trade to within one country and one currency, fine. But if something happens to that country the value of their currency goes down. But such an event won't affect the euro, representing 27 economies, as much if at all. That's very naive. The problem when you have a large number of countries that all share one currency is that the currency is basically controlled by the main countries - in this case mainly Germany. You know that they call the euro the New Deutschmark? It's been very good for Germany because they now trade with a devalued currency allowing them to dump their goods all over the world - that's how they wiped out our car industry. The problem is that the poorer countries are completely screwed. Greece (and Italy) can't live with the euro. Remember when the UK joined the ERM? We went into recession. It's noticeable that people who support the EU have no understanding of even basic economics. |
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 19, 2023 16:20:57 GMT
Remember when the UK joined the then EU in 1973, there was a general western economic recession 1973 to 1975. Seems these economists were close to being spot in. Sir, Boris Johnson recently asserted that the “EU is a graveyard of low growth”. This claim merits proper examination to determine, precisely, how the UK, US, Germany and France have done since 1973, the year in which the UK joined the EU. Per capita GDP of the UK economy grew by 103%, exceeding the 97% growth of the US. Within the EU, the UK edged out Germany (99%) and clobbered France (74%). The UK’s growth has exceeded the US while tracking it, even since the crisis of 2008. This makes it hard to argue that the EU is dragging the UK down. Alternatively, compare this to the UK’s performance during the “glory days” of the Empire from 1872 to 1914. Back then Britain’s per capita growth was only 0.9% per year, in contrast to its robust 2.1% since joining the EU. www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/brexit/ |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2023 17:30:38 GMT
Is it not a fact that ... IF ... Boris Johnsons Brexit deal was so good, then we would now not be attempting to renegotiate it, because it effectively doesn't work.
Only this week members of the Confederation of British Industry stated their hope that IF Keir Starmer becomes Prime Minister, he would make moves to harminise UK regulations with EU regulations, in order to greatly simplify and make doing business with Europe much easier and quicker.
But of course the stupid Tory ERG / hard nosed right wing mob, would sooner cut off their noses to spite their face, rather than help British exporters and British business.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 19, 2023 18:17:10 GMT
Is it not a fact that ... IF ... Boris Johnsons Brexit deal was so good, then we would now not be attempting to renegotiate it, because it effectively doesn't work. Only this week members of the Confederation of British Industry stated their hope that IF Keir Starmer becomes Prime Minister, he would make moves to harminise UK regulations with EU regulations, in order to greatly simplify and make doing business with Europe much easier and quicker. But of course the stupid Tory ERG / hard nosed right wing mob, would sooner cut off their noses to spite their face, rather than help British exporters and British business. The CBI were in favour of EU membership, ERM membership and membership of the Euro... I'd be shocked if they were not calling for closer ties.  Just what we need big business getting the policies they want to push wages down - we tried that for the last 40 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2023 18:22:45 GMT
Gnome said: " What's financially illiterate is the claim that the financial problems faced by the Eurozone and the EU in '08-'09 were not part of the global financial crisis -- which "coincidentally" occurred during the same, exact period. Whether you think the EU's financial problems are intractable and very difficult to solve is irrelevant." If you want to solve a problem it's important to understand the cause of it. That's fundamental. If you want to shrug off the Eurozone's financial problems as just part of the "Global Financial Crisis" then you're financially illiterate. They're caused by the attempt to share one currency between disparate countries without fiscal union and require a different solution to the financial problems of the UK and the USA. Printing money won't help the Eurozone. The "coincidence" of the financial problems was caused by the USA's "solution" to their banks' bad debt problems of selling CDO's around the world to naive bankers. That caused the Credit Crunch because no one knew which banks were holding the worthless paper. But the basic problems of the various countries who were affected by the Credit Crunch were NOT the same. They just had the same "trigger" - the Credit Crunch. But they needed different solutions - and the EU has NEVER solved its ongoing problems. That's why I call them "intractable" - and call you financially illiterate. You just google figures that seem to back up your own opinion - without having any understanding of what's actually going on. If you want to solve a problem, first and foremost and particularly in your case, you must recognise and accept that there is a problem. You won't get anywhere if you deny to yourself that there is a problem. Second is you forget your analyses. People have infinitely better, more sensible and authoritative sources. I was not and am not shrugging off the Eurozone's financial problems as "just part of the GFC". We were talking about a specific period and event -- the global financial crisis. It was you and it is you trying to play down, disassociate, extricate even, the global financial crisis from the Eurozone problem in your attempt to insert your own analyses into argument. Again. So. Could you do us all a favour and give your personal analyses of the monetary and fiscal policies of the European Union a rest. Please! Yeah, you call me financially illiterate and you also believe that "naive bankers" exist. "The US" even sold their bad debts to these "naive bankers" as well! Nothing to do with deregulation. No, not at all, according to you.  Effing amateur, that's what you are. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2023 18:31:44 GMT
You can be as pedantic and as wrong as you want but I will not argue the toss over terminologies particularly when the terms I use do not detract from the meaning of my statements. Almost every country was affected by the GFC. Some were affected more than others; some directly and others, indirectly. Now, if you want to insist that the crisis was not global because some were affected less severely and/or "only" indirectly, then fine -- reinvent the wheel, if that makes you feel intelligent. What's financially illiterate is the claim that the financial problems faced by the Eurozone and the EU in '08-'09 were not part of the global financial crisis -- which "coincidentally" occurred during the same, exact period. Whether you think the EU's financial problems are intractable and very difficult to solve is irrelevant.
According to a study by Ernst & Young, "more than 7,000 finance jobs have moved from London to the EU as a result of Brexit, according to a report by consultants at EY last year. They said Paris scored highest in terms of attracting jobs from London, totalling 2,800, followed by Frankfurt at about 1,800 and Dublin with 1,200."
The claim that Brexit has worked out well is a laughable Brexit delusion. Has worked out well? -- A BoE study concludes that "the UK has suffered a loss of business investment since the 2016 Brexit referendum worth £29bn, or £1,000 a household." Bloomberg recently determined that Brexit is costing the UK £100B a year. Brexit has worked out well, my ass!  Given that remainer doom laden predictions were that tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of jobs losses would occur and move on mass to the EU from London never eventuated, it makes your current stats look pretty grim and prior predictions wholly inaccurate - a little bit like you claim on the economy as a whole. London has maintained and even strengthened its position as one of the world's leading financial centers with not one EU city making the top 10. Here, read it and weep: markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/biggest-financial-centers-london-nears-new-york-2020-9-1029622179?miRedirects=1The fact the gap between London and New York is shrinking is likely to be a major win for the British capital which was ranked the world's top financial centre as recently as March 2018, in the 23rd edition of the report and is looking to retain its crown status in a post-Brexit world.And another cut in the nuts to your narrative, around 1000 EU financial firms plan on opening up offices in the UK - that wasn't the predictions of remainers either. www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-banks-idUSKBN1ZJ00DThe prediction was there would be massive number of finance jobs that would transfer or would have to transfer from London to the EU. What is inaccurate about the report that "more than 7,000 finance jobs have moved from London to the EU as a result of Brexit, according to a report by consultants at EY last year." and that "Paris scored highest in terms of attracting jobs from London, totalling 2,800, followed by Frankfurt at about 1,800 and Dublin with 1,200."? |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 19, 2023 18:45:15 GMT
Just never happened..
Brexit has failed to deliver a big hit to financial services employment in London, Financial Times research has shown, with international banks maintaining most of their staff since the vote to leave the EU and big asset managers hiring in the UK capital.
Nine of the world’s largest asset managers have ramped up hiring in the UK since the vote, with their total combined headcount rising 35 per cent to more than 10,000 employees over the period.
JPMorgan has kept its London headcount at about 11,000, while total UK staff numbers have grown about 2,000 to 18,000 as the bank hired in other locations including technology and operations hubs in Glasgow and Edinburgh.
The numbers in most cases are far different to companies’ original estimates, including Deutsche Bank and JPMorgan whose executives at one point said as many as 4,000 of their staff could leave London, and several other banks which suggested the numbers would be about 1,000.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2023 18:45:42 GMT
Pacifico ... "The CBI were in favour of EU membership, ERM membership and membership of the Euro... I'd be shocked if they were not calling for closer ties. Just what we need big business getting the policies they want to push wages down - we tried that for the last 40 years" ------------------------------------------------------------------ I am sometimes shocked by the intelligence of the Anti Europeans I mean if I were the managing director of a meat plant in England, and I sold 60% of my goods to Europe, how do you think that I would feel if our government declared that they were going to diverge from EU rules on Animal Welfare, Ambient Temperature of Abattoirs, meat refrigeration rules, labelling rules, etc etc. Divergence of the long established, sensible EU rules which we have adhered to for over 40 years,enabling the unhindered and easy access to our most important market would mean unecessary form filling, longer inspections, hold-ups, red tape and potential loss of business and trade. Your conclusion that this is all designed to keep wages down is ridiculous - its designed to make "Doing Business" easier and without UNENCESSARY complications. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 19, 2023 18:50:37 GMT
I am sometimes shocked by the intelligence of the Anti Europeans I mean if I were the managing director of a meat plant in England, and I sold 60% of my goods to Europe, how do you think that I would feel if our government declared that they were going to diverge from EU rules on Animal Welfare, Ambient Temperature of Abattoirs, meat refrigeration rules, labelling rules, etc etc. Divergence of the long established, sensible EU rules which we have adhered to for over 40 years,enabling the unhindered and easy access to our most important market would mean unecessary form filling, longer inspections, hold-ups, red tape and potential loss of business and trade. Your conclusion that this is all designed to keep wages down is ridiculous - its designed to make "Doing Business" easier and without UNENCESSARY complications. So if as you say we should follow the advice of the CBI we should also heed their call to lower employment protections which would also make it easier for business to be more profitable. Or are you only interested in the performance of British businesses when their aims coincide with yours? I am sometimes shocked by the intelligence of the Remoaners.. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2023 19:16:09 GMT
I regard products, goods, manufactured items as commodities, but I have never regarded people, workers or employees as commodoties.
I also very firmly believe that British workers are far better protected by the EU, than they would be if left completely to a Tory government.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2023 19:48:31 GMT
Just never happened.. Brexit has failed to deliver a big hit to financial services employment in London, Financial Times research has shown, with international banks maintaining most of their staff since the vote to leave the EU and big asset managers hiring in the UK capital.
Nine of the world’s largest asset managers have ramped up hiring in the UK since the vote, with their total combined headcount rising 35 per cent to more than 10,000 employees over the period.
JPMorgan has kept its London headcount at about 11,000, while total UK staff numbers have grown about 2,000 to 18,000 as the bank hired in other locations including technology and operations hubs in Glasgow and Edinburgh.
The numbers in most cases are far different to companies’ original estimates, including Deutsche Bank and JPMorgan whose executives at one point said as many as 4,000 of their staff could leave London, and several other banks which suggested the numbers would be about 1,000.EY reported in March 2022 (updated from their previous reports apparently) that 7,000 jobs and £1.3T in assets moved to the EU. On the other hand, IT -- the big hit -- "never happened" based on an FT article published in December 2020. I'll wait for an update from the FT before making any comments, I think. |
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Post by buccaneer on Feb 19, 2023 21:20:42 GMT
Given that remainer doom laden predictions were that tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of jobs losses would occur and move on mass to the EU from London never eventuated, it makes your current stats look pretty grim and prior predictions wholly inaccurate - a little bit like you claim on the economy as a whole. London has maintained and even strengthened its position as one of the world's leading financial centers with not one EU city making the top 10. Here, read it and weep: markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/biggest-financial-centers-london-nears-new-york-2020-9-1029622179?miRedirects=1The fact the gap between London and New York is shrinking is likely to be a major win for the British capital which was ranked the world's top financial centre as recently as March 2018, in the 23rd edition of the report and is looking to retain its crown status in a post-Brexit world.And another cut in the nuts to your narrative, around 1000 EU financial firms plan on opening up offices in the UK - that wasn't the predictions of remainers either. www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-banks-idUSKBN1ZJ00DThe prediction was there would be massive number of finance jobs that would transfer or would have to transfer from London to the EU. What is inaccurate about the report that "more than 7,000 finance jobs have moved from London to the EU as a result of Brexit, according to a report by consultants at EY last year." and that "Paris scored highest in terms of attracting jobs from London, totalling 2,800, followed by Frankfurt at about 1,800 and Dublin with 1,200." No. These were the "massive" remainer predictions in 2016 about London losing jobs wrapped up in the campaign of project fear: Brexit could lead to loss of 100,000 financial services jobs, report warns: www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/14/brexit-could-lead-to-loss-of-100000-financial-services-jobs-report-warnswww.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-employment-idUKKCN0XB1KJAnd yet these "massive" numbers moving on mass never materialised: Brexit has caused very few finance jobs to leave London, Early predictions of a flood of jobs disappearing have not been fulfilledwww.economist.com/britain/2021/05/01/brexit-has-caused-very-few-finance-jobs-to-leave-londonAnd yet, London despite Brexit is still Europe's leading financial center in 2022. www.statista.com/statistics/381170/leading-financial-centers-western-europe/Sorry Gnome, it's still good news for London and Brexit Britain:
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 19, 2023 21:50:52 GMT
Is it not a fact that ... IF ... Boris Johnsons Brexit deal was so good, then we would now not be attempting to renegotiate it, because it effectively doesn't work. Only this week members of the Confederation of British Industry stated their hope that IF Keir Starmer becomes Prime Minister, he would make moves to harminise UK regulations with EU regulations, in order to greatly simplify and make doing business with Europe much easier and quicker. But of course the stupid Tory ERG / hard nosed right wing mob, would sooner cut off their noses to spite their face, rather than help British exporters and British business. The CBI were in favour of EU membership, ERM membership and membership of the Euro... I'd be shocked if they were not calling for closer ties. Just what we need big business getting the policies they want to push wages down - we tried that for the last 40 years. The demand for higher wages is not because of lack of personnel. I believe one of your friends boasted that the UK could still attract immigrant or specialist employees. It is because of inflation. I have to assume from the above that you vote hard left, since you want to suppress employment in order to increase wages. Causing, of course, reduced productivity and less global competition. A more difficult daily life for the people due to shortages of personnel, and that you are ready to compete across the world for higher wages than anyone else for doctors, surgeons, business experts, political advisors, research specialists etc. It all costs money. China became a world economic leader through lower wages. India isn't far behind. Indonesia and Africa will outbid high waged industry for more than a lifetime. This is the 21st century global economy, not the 19th century British Empire which enriched itself by the same low wage profits. Countries compete on cost/profit ratios. Reduced wage costs means more profit. Higher wages and reduced productivity due to fewer employees equals economic suicide. |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 19, 2023 22:16:27 GMT
Given that remainer doom laden predictions were that tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of jobs losses would occur and move on mass to the EU from London never eventuated, it makes your current stats look pretty grim and prior predictions wholly inaccurate - a little bit like you claim on the economy as a whole. London has maintained and even strengthened its position as one of the world's leading financial centers with not one EU city making the top 10. Here, read it and weep: markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/biggest-financial-centers-london-nears-new-york-2020-9-1029622179?miRedirects=1The fact the gap between London and New York is shrinking is likely to be a major win for the British capital which was ranked the world's top financial centre as recently as March 2018, in the 23rd edition of the report and is looking to retain its crown status in a post-Brexit world.And another cut in the nuts to your narrative, around 1000 EU financial firms plan on opening up offices in the UK - that wasn't the predictions of remainers either. www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-banks-idUSKBN1ZJ00DThe prediction was there would be massive number of finance jobs that would transfer or would have to transfer from London to the EU. What is inaccurate about the report that "more than 7,000 finance jobs have moved from London to the EU as a result of Brexit, according to a report by consultants at EY last year." and that "Paris scored highest in terms of attracting jobs from London, totalling 2,800, followed by Frankfurt at about 1,800 and Dublin with 1,200." Of course it would, numpty. London was the sixth largest French city prior to the refefendum. They were here working in the City or running businesses and the were doing it due to the recalcitrance of the French government to allow them to work in the same way they could operate in Britain. Four years ago there were 146,213 French living in Britain and many of them, as ever, were the educated cream from top French universities. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 19, 2023 22:26:16 GMT
I regard products, goods, manufactured items as commodities, but I have never regarded people, workers or employees as commodoties. I also very firmly believe that British workers are far better protected by the EU, than they would be if left completely to a Tory government. So should we listen to the CBI or not - you are very evasive.. ..I wonder why? |
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Effing amateur, that's what you are. 
