|
|
Post by research0it on Jan 13, 2023 13:17:28 GMT
Hi Everyone First of all, I’m aware that this might be better on the Scottish National Party forum, so if a moderator moves it, then fine.
So, I am wondering if this forum is the place for me, and I suppose this new thread will tell me that. I created this thread
Where I spelled out my analysis of the weakness of the UK economy, how it put every other part of the UK into deficit, except London and the South east of England, and how it was difficult for the UK government to correct this. I then asked 2 questions
1. If Scotland stays in the UK, what will the UK government do to develop Scotland so that it doesn’t have a deficit? 2. If Scotland goes, then what are the independence supporter’s plans to deal with the deficit?
No one even tried to answer either question
Inspired by what I found out about this
I produced my own plan, which you may recall. Going to the EU, and getting an interest free loan to develop Scotland’s huge potential in energy. In return the EU would get energy at a discount (I will call this plan “Z”)
That is the scene setter, so here goes my request to all. Can we stick to the points I will now make? In particular
Hi Vinny I am well aware that your personal and moral campaign is to ensure that there is no referendum for the foreseeable. Can you avoid posting this? I know that’s what you think and want. I will take it as read, in addition to anything else that you say.
Hi Jaydee Can you avoid providing rafts of statistics about how bankrupt England is? Again, I know that is your point of view and will take it as read
Hi Om15 Can you avoid posting links and opinions about how awful you think the SNP are? I know you think that and will take it as read as well
So, to the actual points
1. The SNP are doing little to fix the real problems as they are obsessed with Independence
To examine this, one must ask, what can a Scottish government actually do? In my opinion, not that much. They get devolved responsibilities and a budget. They can move money between headings, they can tweak income tax rates and bands, and that’s about it. The devolution settlement means they can’t deviate all that much from the UK
They are doing all that. They recently made more money available for care home beds to take some of the pressure from hospitals, they pay NHS staff more than the rest of the UK, they introduced LBTT, they have made that tax rates different from the UK, they set up a drug task force, and much more. So whatever they are doing, it is not nothing – sorry about the double negative.
One can take issue over the effectiveness and timing of their initiatives, or whether they go far enough, or too far, but ir looks to me that the accusation of independence initiatives stopping them doing things, fails.
2. Should the SNP be in government at all?
Is it not the case that the issues and problems of running the devolved government are interfering with them constructing a convincing case for independence? For example, take my plan “Z”. Why are they not coming up with such plans?
Well, let’s take it that they have come up with plan “Z”? – Or read this, if I’m flattering myself. What would be the next stage of advancing it? Running it past the EU, of course, start exploring with them whether it would be viable, ahead of proposing it. Imagine the opposition parties if they did that, while in government! “You’ve no business!”, “it’s outside your remit!”, would be among the milder things said.
So, my conclusion here is that the SNP should never have formed a government. They could explore all they like with the EU as a political party that wants Scottish Independence, but not so easily as a government – although even here, there seems to be a lack of belief among the opposition parties that it’s possible to do two things at once.
So, my conclusion is that they should never have taken power, and allowed smaller opposition parties to run the Scottish Government, without unnecessary obstruction, and cooperating as much as possible, but still not taking the reins of power. All the way back to their very first minority government. |
|
|
|
Post by om15 on Jan 13, 2023 17:44:07 GMT
We have speculated over the past few months about the "missing" £600,000 that the SNP seem to have mislaid, some feel that it is unimportant in the scheme of things and if the SNP are striving for Separation and pocket a few quid it doesn't matter, some feel that Polis Scotland are so corrupt and under the control of the SNP nothing will be done about it, but, the latest is that we are now moving towards legal action and collars being felt.
It is reassuring that there is still some semblance of law and order in Scotland despite the best efforts of the SNP.
|
|
|
|
Post by research0it on Jan 13, 2023 18:18:52 GMT
We have speculated over the past few months about the "missing" £600,000 that the SNP seem to have mislaid, some feel that it is unimportant in the scheme of things and if the SNP are striving for Separation and pocket a few quid it doesn't matter, some feel that Polis Scotland are so corrupt and under the control of the SNP nothing will be done about it, but, the latest is that we are now moving towards legal action and collars being felt. It is reassuring that there is still some semblance of law and order in Scotland despite the best efforts of the SNP. Hi Om15 You're unbelievable! Doing exactly what I asked you not to. Would you like me to put up a thread specifically to examine the good and bad of the SNP? Have a go there if you must, but in the meantime, dabate points 1 and 2 |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 13, 2023 18:26:02 GMT
If not the SNP in Government then who?. If you have the Tories or Labour then both being Unionist party's they are obviously not going to diverge that much from the policy's of Westminster. So if you didn't have a Independence Party in Stormont none of us would have seen how much better the Scots are at governance compared to everywhere else in the UK.
|
|
|
|
Post by om15 on Jan 13, 2023 18:40:38 GMT
My apologies if it is thought my video link is not appropriate to this thread. Let's start again,
Q. 2. Should the SNP be in government at all?
A. See video link.
|
|
|
|
Post by research0it on Jan 13, 2023 19:34:27 GMT
If not the SNP in Government then who?. If you have the Tories or Labour then both being Unionist party's they are obviously not going to diverge that much from the policy's of Westminster. So if you didn't have a Independence Party in Stormont none of us would have seen how much better the Scots are at governance compared to everywhere else in the UK. Hi pacifico It would probably be a labour - lib dem coalition. I think one my points, however, is that it's designed not to diverge much from Westminster, whoever runs it. I'm not going to get drawn into who is marginally better. |
|
|
|
Post by research0it on Jan 13, 2023 19:36:35 GMT
My apologies if it is thought my video link is not appropriate to this thread. Let's start again, Q. 2. Should the SNP be in government at all? A. See video link. Hi Om15 That's a disingenuous effort to introduce what you want anyway. I want to discuss MY point of why they shouldn't be in government. Engage on the OP or put your stuff in a more relevant thread. |
|
|
|
Post by morayloon on Jan 14, 2023 8:26:21 GMT
So, to the actual points
1. The SNP are doing little to fix the real problems as they are obsessed with Independence
To examine this, one must ask, what can a Scottish government actually do? In my opinion, not that much. They get devolved responsibilities and a budget. They can move money between headings, they can tweak income tax rates and bands, and that’s about it. The devolution settlement means they can’t deviate all that much from the UK
They are doing all that. They recently made more money available for care home beds to take some of the pressure from hospitals, they pay NHS staff more than the rest of the UK, they introduced LBTT, they have made that tax rates different from the UK, they set up a drug task force, and much more. So whatever they are doing, it is not nothing – sorry about the double negative.
One can take issue over the effectiveness and timing of their initiatives, or whether they go far enough, or too far, but ir looks to me that the accusation of independence initiatives stopping them doing things, fails. I think you hit the nail on the head. The Scottish Government's choices are limited. They are doing what they can to alleviate the suffering of many. One example is the bedroom tax, the effect of which is offset by Discretionary Housing Payments making up for cuts in Universal Credit. This policy has been ongoing since 2013. The party also re-introduced council house building in 2007. Prior to that there were no buildings begun in 21 of the quarters between the re-creation of the Parliament to the SNPs success in May 2007. An additional comparison - between Scotland & England - shows Scot Gov were (are) much more proactive. In the last 14 quarters to June 2022, 6,730 council houses were started in England but, Scotland was not that far behind on 6,370. Given the population sizes of the two countries that is some statistic. www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/datasets/ukhousebuildingpermanentdwellingsstartedandcompletedI could go on but you get my drift, the SNP is doing, has done, much more than push for Independence. If Independence had been the sum total of their work, they would not have lasted as long in Government as they have done. The way Salmond et al worked, in that first term, was admirable given they formed a minority administration. The main policy should have been furthering the cause of Independence. The one that has taken up so much time in the past few years - GRR - proves that the party has taken their eye off the ball. Membership fell and a new Independence supporting party was formed because of it. Is that the kind of response you were looking for. If not, let me know |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jan 14, 2023 9:45:05 GMT
Abysmal bunch of money wasting far left authoritarian lunatics with all the common sense of a hyperactive Spaniel.
They created a licence system for air guns impacting a lot of target shooters, plinkers and pest controllers. But did nothing about the ability to buy a crossbow online, with the equivalent power of a .357 magnum rifle, not the hand gun, but a rifle with even more power.
Anyone over 18 can own a crossbow in Scotland no questions asked, no limit on power, they can be magazine fed with as many as 18 bolts per magazine.
Yet a piddly 2ft lb pellet pistol requires a licence. And to get a licence means joining a club. Scotland doesn't have as many shooting clubs as it used to, due to leftie politicians interfering. And as in their infinite stupidity the SNP insisted on reason for ownership, plinking was disallowed as reason, yet you can plink with a very lethal crossbow completely legally.
A stupid STUPID government which needs voting OUT.
|
|
|
|
Post by om15 on Jan 14, 2023 9:53:23 GMT
That was a political move, air guns are seen as a middle class weapon, therefore strict controls must be put in place, the crossbow is more likely to be the choice of their underclass supporters and so has no restrictions. Every single thing driven by the SNP is riven with pandering to their supporters, with particular emphasis being put on restricting the activities and choices of homeowners, people with jobs and those wishing to travel by ferry.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jan 14, 2023 10:00:11 GMT
There was a baby shot dead by a drug dealing shitbag with an air gun some years back and the SNP knee jerked in a way they would not have done had a bow weapon been used.
Worth remembering that if the scum had chucked a half brick at the kid, the baby would have died. The problem is the cunt who decides to kill.
The SNP have banned smacking, so psychos grow up with feelings of being able to do whatever they want without consequences. That makes killings more likely, rather than less.
The SNP are absolutely insane.
|
|
|
|
Post by research0it on Jan 14, 2023 12:22:10 GMT
So, to the actual points
1. The SNP are doing little to fix the real problems as they are obsessed with Independence
To examine this, one must ask, what can a Scottish government actually do? In my opinion, not that much. They get devolved responsibilities and a budget. They can move money between headings, they can tweak income tax rates and bands, and that’s about it. The devolution settlement means they can’t deviate all that much from the UK
They are doing all that. They recently made more money available for care home beds to take some of the pressure from hospitals, they pay NHS staff more than the rest of the UK, they introduced LBTT, they have made that tax rates different from the UK, they set up a drug task force, and much more. So whatever they are doing, it is not nothing – sorry about the double negative.
One can take issue over the effectiveness and timing of their initiatives, or whether they go far enough, or too far, but ir looks to me that the accusation of independence initiatives stopping them doing things, fails. I think you hit the nail on the head. The Scottish Government's choices are limited. They are doing what they can to alleviate the suffering of many. One example is the bedroom tax, the effect of which is offset by Discretionary Housing Payments making up for cuts in Universal Credit. This policy has been ongoing since 2013. The party also re-introduced council house building in 2007. Prior to that there were no buildings begun in 21 of the quarters between the re-creation of the Parliament to the SNPs success in May 2007. An additional comparison - between Scotland & England - shows Scot Gov were (are) much more proactive. In the last 14 quarters to June 2022, 6,730 council houses were started in England but, Scotland was not that far behind on 6,370. Given the population sizes of the two countries that is some statistic. www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/datasets/ukhousebuildingpermanentdwellingsstartedandcompletedI could go on but you get my drift, the SNP is doing, has done, much more than push for Independence. If Independence had been the sum total of their work, they would not have lasted as long in Government as they have done. The way Salmond et al worked, in that first term, was admirable given they formed a minority administration. The main policy should have been furthering the cause of Independence. The one that has taken up so much time in the past few years - GRR - proves that the party has taken their eye off the ball. Membership fell and a new Independence supporting party was formed because of it. Is that the kind of response you were looking for. If not, let me know Hi Morayloon Spot on. Now about the 2nd point if you will. |
|
|
|
Post by research0it on Jan 14, 2023 12:26:04 GMT
Abysmal bunch of money wasting far left authoritarian lunatics with all the common sense of a hyperactive Spaniel. They created a licence system for air guns impacting a lot of target shooters, plinkers and pest controllers. But did nothing about the ability to buy a crossbow online, with the equivalent power of a .357 magnum rifle, not the hand gun, but a rifle with even more power. Anyone over 18 can own a crossbow in Scotland no questions asked, no limit on power, they can be magazine fed with as many as 18 bolts per magazine. Yet a piddly 2ft lb pellet pistol requires a licence. And to get a licence means joining a club. Scotland doesn't have as many shooting clubs as it used to, due to leftie politicians interfering. And as in their infinite stupidity the SNP insisted on reason for ownership, plinking was disallowed as reason, yet you can plink with a very lethal crossbow completely legally. A stupid STUPID government which needs voting OUT. Hi vinny You're veering off topic. But picking it apart, you agree they're busy doing something. You don't like that something but they're not sitting back doing nothing but independence related things? Yes or no, or does giving them ANY credit stick in your craw? |
|
|
|
Post by research0it on Jan 14, 2023 12:34:11 GMT
That was a political move, air guns are seen as a middle class weapon, therefore strict controls must be put in place, the crossbow is more likely to be the choice of their underclass supporters and so has no restrictions. Every single thing driven by the SNP is riven with pandering to their supporters, with particular emphasis being put on restricting the activities and choices of homeowners, people with jobs and those wishing to travel by ferry. Hi Om15 Have you and vinny messaged each other and said something like "let's annoy this poster"? I'm not wanting this discussion suderailed into whether what they do is good or bad. I want to discuss the point of whether the independence issue prevents them from doing ANYTHING. OK? I'll make again my offer to start a thread ABOUT WHAT they're doing. You can post all this there. |
|
|
|
Post by om15 on Jan 14, 2023 13:05:37 GMT
Absolutely not. I have never messaged anyone on this site, nor do I wish to collude with people to derail anything. I simply put my thoughts forward in the way that I wish to, I don't set out to annoy anyone, but if my posts do annoy people that is simply forum life.
SNP governance is an emotive subject, some can see no wrong with the SNP and some can see no right with them, no one has yet to convince me that they are anything but marxist charlatans that are doing harm to Scotland.
|
|
