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Post by research0it on Jan 14, 2023 14:44:31 GMT
Absolutely not. I have never messaged anyone on this site, nor do I wish to collude with people to derail anything. I simply put my thoughts forward in the way that I wish to, I don't set out to annoy anyone, but if my posts do annoy people that is simply forum life. SNP governance is an emotive subject, some can see no wrong with the SNP and some can see no right with them, no one has yet to convince me that they are anything but marxist charlatans that are doing harm to Scotland. Hi Om15 You might not think that you're derailing it, but you are. Whether the SNP are marxists or not is nothing to do with my OP. Look at the 2 points there and answer them. |
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Post by morayloon on Jan 15, 2023 1:38:05 GMT
2. Should the SNP be in government at all?
Is it not the case that the issues and problems of running the devolved government are interfering with them constructing a convincing case for independence? For example, take my plan “Z”. Why are they not coming up with such plans?
Well, let’s take it that they have come up with plan “Z”? – Or read this, if I’m flattering myself. What would be the next stage of advancing it? Running it past the EU, of course, start exploring with them whether it would be viable, ahead of proposing it. Imagine the opposition parties if they did that, while in government! “You’ve no business!”, “it’s outside your remit!”, would be among the milder things said.
So, my conclusion here is that the SNP should never have formed a government. They could explore all they like with the EU as a political party that wants Scottish Independence, but not so easily as a government – although even here, there seems to be a lack of belief among the opposition parties that it’s possible to do two things at once.
So, my conclusion is that they should never have taken power, and allowed smaller opposition parties to run the Scottish Government, without unnecessary obstruction, and cooperating as much as possible, but still not taking the reins of power. All the way back to their very first minority government. What we need is a committee of sorts made up of experienced SNP politicians, and other Independistas (e.g. Harvie and Salmond), who would be charged with forming a plan to further the Independence cause. The SNP leadership has shown, since Sturgeon took over, that Independence is not their major policy issue. The MPs & MSPs, it seems like, don't want to lose their salaries, plus expenses, and are ready to try and stall the process. So, if she has gone cold on Independence get a group up and running that will be pro-active. There is one major problem with your suggestion of 'running it past the EU". During the referendum campaign this was tried, only for Sturgeon to be rebuffed because, the Commission said, they only deal with member states! Cameron et al refused to officially request the opinion of the Commission re Scotland's position vis a vis the EU. Had he done that simple task we would have known where we stood but he didn't seek their help and, because of that, we voted without knowing the situation as regards the the European Union. Whatever, I do not agree that the SNP should not have taken on the Government role. Apart from the lack of urgency on the constitutional question they have fared well. Had they not taken power, I suppose, they could have caused mayhem. Who would govern though? In the 2011-2016 Parliament the party had an overall majority so even if the Unionists settled on one candidate they would have been outvoted. and unable to form a Government. The 2016 - 21 administration was two seats short of an overall majority but with the six Greens they could have prevented Unionists from gaining power. The same could happen since the 2021 Election: SNP were one seat short of an overall majority but allied with the Greens swept all before them. If you let Unionists run the country there will never be a 2nd Referendum. You envisage giving them an easy ride, how's that going to help the cause? No, the SNP were right to take on the Government role and, the way it rules (they keep getting elected after all!) has pleased the electorate, proving that they would be very capable in charge of an Independent Scotland. The Big drawback is she has lost the plot on Independence. But, refusing to take power is not the way to go forward. |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 15, 2023 10:44:06 GMT
SNP out, unionists in.
SNP have been in too long, time for Sturgeon to get the boot. Sack her.
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Post by research0it on Jan 15, 2023 13:07:02 GMT
SNP out, unionists in. SNP have been in too long, time for Sturgeon to get the boot. Sack her. Hi vinny The clue is in the button you pressed - reply to topic - I created another thread on the SNP section for you to put this kind of stuff I only want answers to my 2 points here |
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Post by jaydee on Jan 18, 2023 9:53:07 GMT
We have speculated over the past few months about the "missing" £600,000 that the SNP seem to have mislaid, some feel that it is unimportant in the scheme of things and if the SNP are striving for Separation and pocket a few quid it doesn't matter, some feel that Polis Scotland are so corrupt and under the control of the SNP nothing will be done about it, but, the latest is that we are now moving towards legal action and collars being felt. It is reassuring that there is still some semblance of law and order in Scotland despite the best efforts of the SNP. No matey you did not speculate about the missing £600,000 which is not missing. You said the FM stole it. As once again you change your tune. It was ear marked for indy 2. And the dispute is on how it was spent or used.. If indeed it has.. But that is beyond you. And it is not moving towards legal action of collars being felt. The enquiry by the police has been submitted to the Procurator Fiscal. As it is political. Which is clearly going to end up as a waste of time. Because idiots like D.Ross cannot stop making their gob go. Or collars would have been felt. It will then be up to clowns like that fascist on your link to take the SNP to court. Or you for that matter. You seem to have the evidence that it has been stolen So lets put money where mouth is. Take the SNP to court. Your the one it is bothering. Then can you tell me. Exactly what has it to do with the Scottish Government? And some do not believe Police Scotland are corrupt and under the control of the SNP. Arseholes do. Not a rapist or murderer amongst them. As in England. I have told you at least 5 times to send all this evidence you have to Police Scotland. And you wonder why I consider your hate filled brain brings to a new level the meaning of the word imbecile. It is constant nonsense post after post www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/30/former-snp-mp-natalie-mcgarry-jailed-embezzling |
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Post by jaydee on Jan 18, 2023 10:00:27 GMT
My apologies if it is thought my video link is not appropriate to this thread. Let's start again, Q. 2. Should the SNP be in government at all? A. See video link. Indeed lets start again. I have seen it. Now how about you telling me how they should not be in government. What has it to do with you, who the Scots vote for. What has it to do with the Scottish Government?. As stupid Englishmen drag another thread of track. More to the point. You tell me how the Westminster wankers with their corruption involving billions of tax payers money, not donations, with a unelected liar of a Prime Minister be in Government |
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Post by research0it on Jan 18, 2023 12:04:02 GMT
My apologies if it is thought my video link is not appropriate to this thread. Let's start again, Q. 2. Should the SNP be in government at all? A. See video link. Indeed lets start again. I have seen it. Now how about you telling me how they should not be in government. What has it to do with you, who the Scots vote for. What has it to do with the Scottish Government?. As stupid Englishmen drag another thread of track. More to the point. You tell me how the Westminster wankers with their corruption involving billions of tax payers money, not donations, with a unelected liar of a Prime Minister be in Government Hi Jaydee,
Would you mind not getting involved in these exchanges with Om15 and vinny on this thread?
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Post by research0it on Jan 18, 2023 12:05:00 GMT
2. Should the SNP be in government at all?
Is it not the case that the issues and problems of running the devolved government are interfering with them constructing a convincing case for independence? For example, take my plan “Z”. Why are they not coming up with such plans?
Well, let’s take it that they have come up with plan “Z”? – Or read this, if I’m flattering myself. What would be the next stage of advancing it? Running it past the EU, of course, start exploring with them whether it would be viable, ahead of proposing it. Imagine the opposition parties if they did that, while in government! “You’ve no business!”, “it’s outside your remit!”, would be among the milder things said.
So, my conclusion here is that the SNP should never have formed a government. They could explore all they like with the EU as a political party that wants Scottish Independence, but not so easily as a government – although even here, there seems to be a lack of belief among the opposition parties that it’s possible to do two things at once.
So, my conclusion is that they should never have taken power, and allowed smaller opposition parties to run the Scottish Government, without unnecessary obstruction, and cooperating as much as possible, but still not taking the reins of power. All the way back to their very first minority government. What we need is a committee of sorts made up of experienced SNP politicians, and other Independistas (e.g. Harvie and Salmond), who would be charged with forming a plan to further the Independence cause. The SNP leadership has shown, since Sturgeon took over, that Independence is not their major policy issue. The MPs & MSPs, it seems like, don't want to lose their salaries, plus expenses, and are ready to try and stall the process. So, if she has gone cold on Independence get a group up and running that will be pro-active. There is one major problem with your suggestion of 'running it past the EU". During the referendum campaign this was tried, only for Sturgeon to be rebuffed because, the Commission said, they only deal with member states! Cameron et al refused to officially request the opinion of the Commission re Scotland's position vis a vis the EU. Had he done that simple task we would have known where we stood but he didn't seek their help and, because of that, we voted without knowing the situation as regards the the European Union. Whatever, I do not agree that the SNP should not have taken on the Government role. Apart from the lack of urgency on the constitutional question they have fared well. Had they not taken power, I suppose, they could have caused mayhem. Who would govern though? In the 2011-2016 Parliament the party had an overall majority so even if the Unionists settled on one candidate they would have been outvoted. and unable to form a Government. The 2016 - 21 administration was two seats short of an overall majority but with the six Greens they could have prevented Unionists from gaining power. The same could happen since the 2021 Election: SNP were one seat short of an overall majority but allied with the Greens swept all before them. If you let Unionists run the country there will never be a 2nd Referendum. You envisage giving them an easy ride, how's that going to help the cause? No, the SNP were right to take on the Government role and, the way it rules (they keep getting elected after all!) has pleased the electorate, proving that they would be very capable in charge of an Independent Scotland. The Big drawback is she has lost the plot on Independence. But, refusing to take power is not the way to go forward. Hi morayloon,
That's a good answer although I have some points on it, that I'll come back to, once I've them clear in my head
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Post by om15 on Jan 18, 2023 12:10:40 GMT
I appreciate that you mean well, but you have to understand that it is most unlikely that you will be able to achieve an adult and sensible debate on things Scottish on this forum. The reasons being that Jaydee will come barging in shouting and frothing his nonsense, insults, swearing and accusations like a drunken bargee, and the rest of us just enjoy taking the piss, so I'm afraid you really are on to a losing wicket with that idea.
But I give you credit for trying and wish you well. I for my part will refrain from passing comments on the SNP at your request.
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Post by research0it on Jan 18, 2023 14:36:06 GMT
I appreciate that you mean well, but you have to understand that it is most unlikely that you will be able to achieve an adult and sensible debate on things Scottish on this forum. The reasons being that Jaydee will come barging in shouting and frothing his nonsense, insults, swearing and accusations like a drunken bargee, and the rest of us just enjoy taking the piss, so I'm afraid you really are on to a losing wicket with that idea. But I give you credit for trying and wish you well. I for my part will refrain from passing comments on the SNP at your request. Hi Om15 Thanks for that. There's nothing wrong with you posting anything - it's a free country - I'd just prefer you to stick to the 2 points on this thread. If you post at all |
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