|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 6, 2023 15:20:56 GMT
Why lie about New Labour and Blair? yet more smearing of anyone telling the truth and not endorsing the new labour cult view? 
wonders will never cease.............see 2 screaming yet again to himself in his dark room with the blinds and curtains shut dreaming of jam tomorrow with keir starmer....
YOU ARE THE DENIER TRUTH, he tells a lie and you back him up. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 6, 2023 15:25:42 GMT
He is taking the bread out of Jaydee's mouth 
That said, the general rule is that it takes 11 labour votes to match 10 Tory ones because the 11th Labour voter is too busy talking revolution in the saloon bar to actually get off his arse and vote. The rule is not as solid as before, but the knights of the shires still outmatch the brothers and sisters.
The real problem for Labour is that it is running out of working class. It is alright for Steve 7677 to go home and tug his foreskin in homage to Keir Hardie, but the rest of the plebs are ungrateful bastards and more interested in joining the middle classes than supping organic nettle tea with Jeremy Corbyn
Lol borkie. At least steve is original , and stands out compared to see 2. I have yet to hear an original political thought come out of see 2`s posts. The usual empty headed blairite smoke and mirrors , poor attemtpt at spin , and vacuous slogans and empty soundbites.
You keep saying how the uk is dull at the moment politically. I understand to a degree what you mean , so i think a starmer blairite reincarnation is going to be fun watching stumble about in government.
Has pappysmurf solved the foodbank crises yet with the socialist workers of cornwall? i tell you modern labour couldnt spell the word socialist.
How anyone can post so much overopinionated garbage ^^^ without choking on their own words is quite an achievement. |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Jan 6, 2023 18:00:54 GMT
Lol borkie. At least steve is original , and stands out compared to see 2. I have yet to hear an original political thought come out of see 2`s posts. The usual empty headed blairite smoke and mirrors , poor attemtpt at spin , and vacuous slogans and empty soundbites.
You keep saying how the uk is dull at the moment politically. I understand to a degree what you mean , so i think a starmer blairite reincarnation is going to be fun watching stumble about in government.
Has pappysmurf solved the foodbank crises yet with the socialist workers of cornwall? i tell you modern labour couldnt spell the word socialist.
without choking on their own words is quite an achievement. Well you seem to manage OK. |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Jan 6, 2023 19:09:08 GMT
Do we have any ‘working class voters’
The traditional working class occupations have been eradicated so the only working class voters are for the most part surely unemployed voters, or foreigners engaged in the delivering gig economy who have no vote outside labour controlled wales and SNP controlled Scotland where the immigrant non citizen population are needed to keep the tories out.
|
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 6, 2023 23:47:18 GMT
How anyone can post so much overopinionated garbage ^^^ without choking on their own words is quite an achievement. Well you seem to manage OK. I get stick from right-wingers like yourself and I get stick from left-wingers, that places me in between the more extreme areas of politics, and that suites me fine |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 7, 2023 11:55:52 GMT
yet more smearing of anyone telling the truth and not endorsing the new labour cult view?
wonders will never cease.............see 2 screaming yet again to himself in his dark room with the blinds and curtains shut dreaming of jam tomorrow with keir starmer....
YOU ARE THE DENIER TRUTH, he tells a lie and you back him up.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 12:28:58 GMT
Brexit had a big part to play in that. During the Labour years the floodgates were opened to economic migrants from poorer parts of Europe, in the belief that far fewer would come than actually did. Some of these migrants helped keep the NHS and care home sector going which was a good thing, but many employers at the lower end exploited this source of cheap labour to hold down pay, whilst landlords exploited the increased numbers to drive up rents. Working class people especially found themselves being economically disadvantaged by these phenomena but if they complained Labour assumed they were racists. This helped to lose Labour much of the working class vote which swung behind Brexit. More middle class elements were not being disadvantaged economically in the same way by and large and tended to benefit from cheaper plumbers, electricians and builders, and remained far more pro-EU. Labour suffered from this class divide over Brexit which as a cause attracted more working class people away from Labour, whilst more pro-EU middle class elements swung towards it rather more. The voter demographics of both the 17 and 19 elections cannot be divorced from the distorting effects of Brexit. What will be more interesting in the fullness of time is what the working class chooses to do going forwards, as Brexit as an issue recedes. One thing is clear. During the Blair years much of the working class ceased to see Labour as their party anymore, and Brexit got in the way of them being won back in the Corbyn era. Not sure the working class will be won back in large numbers by the turbo charged Blairism currently on offer from Starmer either. Currently they are highly dependent upon the crapness of the Tories to have any chance. Labour has become a predominantly affluent liberal middle class party. I suspect Starmer will do reasonably well amongst this demographic but less so amongst the working class |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 7, 2023 12:35:00 GMT
Brexit had a big part to play in that. During the Labour years the floodgates were opened to economic migrants from poorer parts of Europe, in the belief that far fewer would come than actually did. Some of these migrants helped keep the NHS and care home sector going which was a good thing, but many employers at the lower end exploited this source of cheap labour to hold down pay, whilst landlords exploited the increased numbers to drive up rents. Working class people especially found themselves being economically disadvantaged by these phenomena but if they complained Labour assumed they were racists. This helped to lose Labour much of the working class vote which swung behind Brexit. More middle class elements were not being disadvantaged economically in the same way by and large and tended to benefit from cheaper plumbers, electricians and builders, and remained far more pro-EU. Labour suffered from this class divide over Brexit which as a cause attracted more working class people away from Labour, whilst more pro-EU middle class elements swung towards it rather more. The voter demographics of both the 17 and 19 elections cannot be divorced from the distorting effects of Brexit. What will be more interesting in the fullness of time is what the working class chooses to do going forwards, as Brexit as an issue recedes. One thing is clear. During the Blair years much of the working class ceased to see Labour as their party anymore, and Brexit got in the way of them winning them being won back in the Corbyn era. Not sure the working class will be won back in large numbers by the turbo charged Blairism currently on offer from Starmer either. Currently they are highly dependent upon the crapness of the Tories to have any chance. Labour has become a predominantly affluent liberal middle class party. I suspect Starmer will do reasonably well amongst this demographic but less so amongst the working class good post steve , and i largely agree.
New labour as many have pointed out helped create the fertile breeding ground for much of the politics that exist today , including but not exclusively euroscepticism and the rise of UKIP/Brexit party.
This is still one of the best article i have ever read on that fact , and as you mention , blairs disasterous mass immigration policy in 2004 was the cause of much unrest and anger in England especially....
The whole article is well worth a read..
|
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 7, 2023 13:46:13 GMT
Brexit had a big part to play in that. During the Labour years the floodgates were opened to economic migrants from poorer parts of Europe, in the belief that far fewer would come than actually did. Some of these migrants helped keep the NHS and care home sector going which was a good thing, but many employers at the lower end exploited this source of cheap labour to hold down pay, whilst landlords exploited the increased numbers to drive up rents. Working class people especially found themselves being economically disadvantaged by these phenomena but if they complained Labour assumed they were racists. This helped to lose Labour much of the working class vote which swung behind Brexit. More middle class elements were not being disadvantaged economically in the same way by and large and tended to benefit from cheaper plumbers, electricians and builders, and remained far more pro-EU. Labour suffered from this class divide over Brexit which as a cause attracted more working class people away from Labour, whilst more pro-EU middle class elements swung towards it rather more. The voter demographics of both the 17 and 19 elections cannot be divorced from the distorting effects of Brexit. What will be more interesting in the fullness of time is what the working class chooses to do going forwards, as Brexit as an issue recedes. One thing is clear. During the Blair years much of the working class ceased to see Labour as their party anymore, and Brexit got in the way of them being won back in the Corbyn era. Not sure the working class will be won back in large numbers by the turbo charged Blairism currently on offer from Starmer either. Currently they are highly dependent upon the crapness of the Tories to have any chance. Labour has become a predominantly affluent liberal middle class party. I suspect Starmer will do reasonably well amongst this demographic but less so amongst the working class Blimey, I agree with you. Chalk that one up for posterity. And yes Labour has become a predominantly affluent liberal middle class party. Or, in other words, a party for the people who can afford them. And I'm not sure that the genuine working class can actually afford them. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 7, 2023 13:50:25 GMT
Brexit had a big part to play in that. During the Labour years the floodgates were opened to economic migrants from poorer parts of Europe, in the belief that far fewer would come than actually did. Some of these migrants helped keep the NHS and care home sector going which was a good thing, but many employers at the lower end exploited this source of cheap labour to hold down pay, whilst landlords exploited the increased numbers to drive up rents. Working class people especially found themselves being economically disadvantaged by these phenomena but if they complained Labour assumed they were racists. This helped to lose Labour much of the working class vote which swung behind Brexit. More middle class elements were not being disadvantaged economically in the same way by and large and tended to benefit from cheaper plumbers, electricians and builders, and remained far more pro-EU. Labour suffered from this class divide over Brexit which as a cause attracted more working class people away from Labour, whilst more pro-EU middle class elements swung towards it rather more. The voter demographics of both the 17 and 19 elections cannot be divorced from the distorting effects of Brexit. What will be more interesting in the fullness of time is what the working class chooses to do going forwards, as Brexit as an issue recedes. One thing is clear. During the Blair years much of the working class ceased to see Labour as their party anymore, and Brexit got in the way of them being won back in the Corbyn era. Not sure the working class will be won back in large numbers by the turbo charged Blairism currently on offer from Starmer either. Currently they are highly dependent upon the crapness of the Tories to have any chance. Labour has become a predominantly affluent liberal middle class party. I suspect Starmer will do reasonably well amongst this demographic but less so amongst the working class Blimey, I agree with you. Chalk that one up for posterity. And yes Labour has become a predominantly affluent liberal middle class party. Or, in other words, a party for the people who can afford them. And I'm not sure that the genuine working class can actually afford them. The trendy so called lefty champagne socialists down the local wine bar whispering of liberal revolution while sneering at the working class for voting brexit in england or supporting scottish indy in scotland.
That labour party?
Im not sure even they can afford them....
|
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 7, 2023 22:11:12 GMT
Brexit had a big part to play in that. During the Labour years the floodgates were opened to economic migrants from poorer parts of Europe, in the belief that far fewer would come than actually did. Some of these migrants helped keep the NHS and care home sector going which was a good thing, but many employers at the lower end exploited this source of cheap labour to hold down pay, whilst landlords exploited the increased numbers to drive up rents. Working class people especially found themselves being economically disadvantaged by these phenomena but if they complained Labour assumed they were racists. This helped to lose Labour much of the working class vote which swung behind Brexit. Around 45% of migrants from the EU were well educated. It seems that most could speak English probably giving them two languages. The reason the increases in migration was allowed is because the economy was flourishing. Despite the whinge about the supposed opening of the flood gates to EU migrants, unemployment remained low. Most migrants into the UK came from outside of the EU. Yet there were virtually no complaints about that. AFAIA many people on the minimum wage were paid above the minimum. A scarcity of labour will increase income for those available to work, but it also reduces expansion in the economy and less government income from taxation. The answer lies in the level of the wage, not in fewer people in the workplace. The MINIMUM wage was a Minimum, not a maximum, where were the Trade Unions? Really cheap labour existed BEFORE the minimum wage existed, which is why the minimum wage was introduced.Can you name a NL MP who claimed or assumed that people who objected to the migration from the EU are "racist"? if you can I will show you a fool. You always seem to see the glass half empty in these areas instead of seeing it half full, |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 7, 2023 22:13:14 GMT
Brexit had a big part to play in that. During the Labour years the floodgates were opened to economic migrants from poorer parts of Europe, in the belief that far fewer would come than actually did. Some of these migrants helped keep the NHS and care home sector going which was a good thing, but many employers at the lower end exploited this source of cheap labour to hold down pay, whilst landlords exploited the increased numbers to drive up rents. Working class people especially found themselves being economically disadvantaged by these phenomena but if they complained Labour assumed they were racists. This helped to lose Labour much of the working class vote which swung behind Brexit. More middle class elements were not being disadvantaged economically in the same way by and large and tended to benefit from cheaper plumbers, electricians and builders, and remained far more pro-EU. Labour suffered from this class divide over Brexit which as a cause attracted more working class people away from Labour, whilst more pro-EU middle class elements swung towards it rather more. The voter demographics of both the 17 and 19 elections cannot be divorced from the distorting effects of Brexit. What will be more interesting in the fullness of time is what the working class chooses to do going forwards, as Brexit as an issue recedes. One thing is clear. During the Blair years much of the working class ceased to see Labour as their party anymore, and Brexit got in the way of them being won back in the Corbyn era. Not sure the working class will be won back in large numbers by the turbo charged Blairism currently on offer from Starmer either. Currently they are highly dependent upon the crapness of the Tories to have any chance. Labour has become a predominantly affluent liberal middle class party. I suspect Starmer will do reasonably well amongst this demographic but less so amongst the working class Blimey, I agree with you. Chalk that one up for posterity. And yes Labour has become a predominantly affluent liberal middle class party. Or, in other words, a party for the people who can afford them. And I'm not sure that the genuine working class can actually afford them. Your right-wing bias is exposed yet again. |
|
|
|
Post by sword on Jan 7, 2023 22:19:28 GMT
As far as i know Murdoch never lost an election.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 7, 2023 22:20:40 GMT
AFAIA many people on the minimum wage were paid above the minimum. They were? - thats a good trick..  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2023 6:05:34 GMT
Brexit had a big part to play in that. During the Labour years the floodgates were opened to economic migrants from poorer parts of Europe, in the belief that far fewer would come than actually did. Some of these migrants helped keep the NHS and care home sector going which was a good thing, but many employers at the lower end exploited this source of cheap labour to hold down pay, whilst landlords exploited the increased numbers to drive up rents. Working class people especially found themselves being economically disadvantaged by these phenomena but if they complained Labour assumed they were racists. This helped to lose Labour much of the working class vote which swung behind Brexit. Around 45% of migrants from the EU were well educated. It seems that most could speak English probably giving them two languages. The reason the increases in migration was allowed is because the economy was flourishing. Despite the whinge about the supposed opening of the flood gates to EU migrants, unemployment remained low. Most migrants into the UK came from outside of the EU. Yet there were virtually no complaints about that. AFAIA many people on the minimum wage were paid above the minimum. A scarcity of labour will increase income for those available to work, but it also reduces expansion in the economy and less government income from taxation. The answer lies in the level of the wage, not in fewer people in the workplace. The MINIMUM wage was a Minimum, not a maximum, where were the Trade Unions? Really cheap labour existed BEFORE the minimum wage existed, which is why the minimum wage was introduced.Can you name a NL MP who claimed or assumed that people who objected to the migration from the EU are "racist"? if you can I will show you a fool. You always seem to see the glass half empty in these areas instead of seeing it half full, Gordon Brown himself notoriously called Gillian Duffy a racist when he thought the microphones were off. And I was all over the internet including on facebook Labour party forums for members and supporters and was forever encountering Blairite types mistaking legitimate working class concerns for racism. And in my area most of the cheap labour being used to keep down pay in the construction sector and other related sectors like plumbing, carpentry, and electrical tended to be East European. My city's social housing stock was getting new bathrooms and kitchens fitted towards the latter New Labour years. Five contractors were chosen for the work. Four of them employed exclusively east European labour. One of these had just laid off it's entire British local workforce and replaced them with Romanians on minimum wage. This was the reality we could see on the ground around us and if we complained about it we were racists. |
|
