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Post by Tinculin on Jan 3, 2023 14:04:03 GMT
I've explained to you why average GDP per capita is skewed for small countries and it has nothing to do with the money people are earning. What jobs do you think the average person in a big city like Dublin does to earn 99k per year? Here are 28,000 jobs in Dublin Ireland: ie.indeed.com/jobs-in-Dublin,-County-Dublin?vjk=d864ab9d06e092b8 Only 2% of these offer a potential salary > 100k The overwhelming majority offer a 20-60k starting salary. Do you want to take a shot at trying to explain these numbers and how they support your belief these people are earning on average, 100k+ per year? Or alternatively, explain what job the vast majority of irish are doing to earn 100k? I've worked in Ireland and i've employed people in Ireland and I can promise you, they don't earn on average even half that, as that link very clearly demonstrates. You are just not going to give up. All your argument is based on is nonsense. Or delusion. I cannot help you on that one. That's not what was asked, so please stop going off at a tangent because your fallacy has been exposed and stay on topic. I never asked you about the distribution of wealth within the UK. If you want to discuss distribution of wealth within nations, that's a very different discussion to the question which was actually asked of you. I asked you this. " Do you really believe in the accuracy of those links and that your average Irish citizen earns 99k per year?" You replied: " Yes I do." Which is demonstrably incorrect, and i've explained to you why. An above average salary for someone living in one of Ireland's richest areas (Dublin), would be consdered around 50K EUR or 44k GBP. The reason that you are unable to list regular jobs which an average Irish worker would do and get paid 99k is because they do not exist. For those jobs you are looking upper middle class and above, such as senior management, doctors, lawyers etc which make up a very small minority of the work force and certainly is not what an average Irish citizen earns. |
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Post by jaydee on Jan 3, 2023 15:38:04 GMT
You are just not going to give up. All your argument is based on is nonsense. Or delusion. I cannot help you on that one. That's not what was asked, so please stop going off at a tangent because your fallacy has been exposed and stay on topic. I never asked you about the distribution of wealth within the UK. If you want to discuss distribution of wealth within nations, that's a very different discussion to the question which was actually asked of you. I asked you this. " Do you really believe in the accuracy of those links and that your average Irish citizen earns 99k per year?" You replied: " Yes I do." Which is demonstrably incorrect, and i've explained to you why. An above average salary for someone living in one of Ireland's richest areas (Dublin), would be consdered around 50K EUR or 44k GBP. The reason that you are unable to list regular jobs which an average Irish worker would do and get paid 99k is because they do not exist. For those jobs you are looking upper middle class and above, such as senior management, doctors, lawyers etc which make up a very small minority of the work force and certainly is not what an average Irish citizen earns. No matey it is you who is going of on a tangent. It is you who is going on about what Joe in Ireland earns. Not me. You asked me if I believed what it says in the link and I said yes. You are perfectly correct that is what I said. In the links I gave it states that the UK in Europe comes in at around the 14th richest country by GDP. GDP measures the monetary value of final goods and services—that is, those that are bought by the final user—produced in a country in a given period of time. Usually a quarter. Nothing to do with earnings. You are the one entering the red herring about earnings. So lets get the ducks in order. And stop stating things I did not say. You then asked me about earnings. I gave you a answer..The nonsense of which and conclusion is as posted. . . It had nothing to do with GDP. It was a response to your post on earnings What you are saying. Is that the UK is the 5th Richest Country in the world. That is what you said. What I am saying oh no it is not. On the links I gave they all state that the UK comes in at around 14th Richest by GDP in Europe. In a world wide sense the UK comes in between 28th and 38th Richest by the same measurement. Is that clear enough, on what I am saying. How does that translate to you the UK is the 5th Richest in the world. Could you explain how all those links are wrong?. Second time I have asked. You still have not told me how you conclude the word Richest means the same as the word largest. Or how Scotland is a drag on England. That is what you said. Third time I have asked. Now would you care to explain what I have not answered. That is what you said. You are now going to go on another tangent to divert. . That is becoming clear. |
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Post by Tinculin on Jan 3, 2023 16:00:42 GMT
That's not what was asked, so please stop going off at a tangent because your fallacy has been exposed and stay on topic. I never asked you about the distribution of wealth within the UK. If you want to discuss distribution of wealth within nations, that's a very different discussion to the question which was actually asked of you. I asked you this. " Do you really believe in the accuracy of those links and that your average Irish citizen earns 99k per year?" You replied: " Yes I do." Which is demonstrably incorrect, and i've explained to you why. An above average salary for someone living in one of Ireland's richest areas (Dublin), would be consdered around 50K EUR or 44k GBP. The reason that you are unable to list regular jobs which an average Irish worker would do and get paid 99k is because they do not exist. For those jobs you are looking upper middle class and above, such as senior management, doctors, lawyers etc which make up a very small minority of the work force and certainly is not what an average Irish citizen earns. No matey it is you who is going of on a tangent. It is you who is going on about what Joe in Ireland earns. Not me. You asked me if I believed what it says in the link and I said yes. You are perfectly correct that is what I said. In the links I gave it states that the UK in Europe comes in at around the 14th richest country by GDP. GDP measures the monetary value of final goods and services—that is, those that are bought by the final user—produced in a country in a given period of time. Usually a quarter. Nothing to do with earnings. You are the one entering the red herring about earnings. So lets get the ducks in order. And stop stating things I did not say. You then asked me about earnings. I gave you a answer..The nonsense of which is as posted. . . It had nothing to do with GDP. It was a response to your post on earnings What you are saying. Is that the UK is the 5th Richest Country in the world. That is what you said. What I am saying oh no it is not. On the links I gave they all state that the UK comes in at around 14th Richest by GDP in Europe. In a world wide sense the UK comes in between 28th and 38th Richest by the same measurement. Is that clear enough, on what I am saying. How does that translate to you the UK is the 5th Richest in the world. Could you explain how all those links are wrong?. Second time I have asked. You still have not told me how you conclude the word Richest means the same as the word largest. Or how Scotland is a drag on England. That is what you said. Third time I have asked. Now would you care to explain what I have not answered. That is what you said. I have explained to you several times why this is not the case and why the number is so inflated above the actual value that a person in Ireland earns and ultimately why your metric of wealth is not an accurate reflection of wealth at all. If you refuse to have none of it, that's entirely upto you. If you genuinely think you can go and get an average job in Ireland and earn that kind of cash, 2-3x that of people in Germany, France and the UK... more power to you and i'd suggest you go and grab it right now and become a very rich man. And if this is the case, why the Irish people haven't thought of this and why they are not all living like kings? I've absolutely no idea.... but good luck explaining that...  |
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Post by jaydee on Jan 3, 2023 16:17:56 GMT
No matey it is you who is going of on a tangent. It is you who is going on about what Joe in Ireland earns. Not me. You asked me if I believed what it says in the link and I said yes. You are perfectly correct that is what I said. In the links I gave it states that the UK in Europe comes in at around the 14th richest country by GDP. GDP measures the monetary value of final goods and services—that is, those that are bought by the final user—produced in a country in a given period of time. Usually a quarter. Nothing to do with earnings. You are the one entering the red herring about earnings. So lets get the ducks in order. And stop stating things I did not say. You then asked me about earnings. I gave you a answer..The nonsense of which is as posted. . . It had nothing to do with GDP. It was a response to your post on earnings What you are saying. Is that the UK is the 5th Richest Country in the world. That is what you said. What I am saying oh no it is not. On the links I gave they all state that the UK comes in at around 14th Richest by GDP in Europe. In a world wide sense the UK comes in between 28th and 38th Richest by the same measurement. Is that clear enough, on what I am saying. How does that translate to you the UK is the 5th Richest in the world. Could you explain how all those links are wrong?. Second time I have asked. You still have not told me how you conclude the word Richest means the same as the word largest. Or how Scotland is a drag on England. That is what you said. Third time I have asked. Now would you care to explain what I have not answered. That is what you said. I have explained to you several times why this is not the case and why the number is so inflated above the actual value that a person in Ireland earns. If you refuse to have none of it, that's entirely upto you. If you genuinely think you can go and get an average job in Ireland and earn that kind of cash, more power to you and i'd suggest you go and grab it right now and become a very rich man. And if this is the case, why the Irish people haven't thought of this and why they are not all living like kings? I've absolutely no idea.... but good luck explaining that... Your silly video is the complete answer that you are now going of on a tangent. Heard and seen it a million times. As you spectacularly failed to answer one question. You are now going of on a tangent about the Irish people, and jobs. . Could you explain to me what that has to do with the fact that the UK is the 14th Richest country in Europe and between the 28th and 38th by the same measurement in the world. That is third world economics. You have stated it is the 5th Richest. And you simply are not going to admit you are 100% wrong. For some strange reason it dents the ego and the delusion takes a hit. I have no idea why. You cannot even answer a simple question on what you did post. Can you tell me how Scotland is a drag on England. That is what you said. Fourth time I have asked. But what the hell. |
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Post by borchester on Jan 3, 2023 16:41:57 GMT
No matey it is you who is going of on a tangent. It is you who is going on about what Joe in Ireland earns. Not me. You asked me if I believed what it says in the link and I said yes. You are perfectly correct that is what I said. In the links I gave it states that the UK in Europe comes in at around the 14th richest country by GDP. GDP measures the monetary value of final goods and services—that is, those that are bought by the final user—produced in a country in a given period of time. Usually a quarter. Nothing to do with earnings. You are the one entering the red herring about earnings. So lets get the ducks in order. And stop stating things I did not say. You then asked me about earnings. I gave you a answer..The nonsense of which is as posted. . . It had nothing to do with GDP. It was a response to your post on earnings What you are saying. Is that the UK is the 5th Richest Country in the world. That is what you said. What I am saying oh no it is not. On the links I gave they all state that the UK comes in at around 14th Richest by GDP in Europe. In a world wide sense the UK comes in between 28th and 38th Richest by the same measurement. Is that clear enough, on what I am saying. How does that translate to you the UK is the 5th Richest in the world. Could you explain how all those links are wrong?. Second time I have asked. You still have not told me how you conclude the word Richest means the same as the word largest. Or how Scotland is a drag on England. That is what you said. Third time I have asked. Now would you care to explain what I have not answered. That is what you said. I have explained to you several times why this is not the case and why the number is so inflated above the actual value that a person in Ireland earns and ultimately why your metric of wealth is not an accurate reflection of wealth at all. If you refuse to have none of it, that's entirely upto you. If you genuinely think you can go and get an average job in Ireland and earn that kind of cash, 2-3x that of people in Germany, France and the UK... more power to you and i'd suggest you go and grab it right now and become a very rich man. And if this is the case, why the Irish people haven't thought of this and why they are not all living like kings? I've absolutely no idea.... but good luck explaining that... The problem is that Jaydee sees everything through a Donepezil induced fog and it is unlikely that he knows where Ireland actually is, which is ironic when you consider that he is clearly away with the leprechauns.
That said, I was surprised to see how low wages were in Dublin. Ireland's GDP per capita is about two and a half that of the UK, but wages at the bottom are less.
Trickle down does not seem to be an Irish thing.
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Post by jaydee on Jan 3, 2023 20:59:43 GMT
I have explained to you several times why this is not the case and why the number is so inflated above the actual value that a person in Ireland earns and ultimately why your metric of wealth is not an accurate reflection of wealth at all. If you refuse to have none of it, that's entirely upto you. If you genuinely think you can go and get an average job in Ireland and earn that kind of cash, 2-3x that of people in Germany, France and the UK... more power to you and i'd suggest you go and grab it right now and become a very rich man. And if this is the case, why the Irish people haven't thought of this and why they are not all living like kings? I've absolutely no idea.... but good luck explaining that... The problem is that Jaydee sees everything through a Donepezil induced fog and it is unlikely that he knows where Ireland actually is, which is ironic when you consider that he is clearly away with the leprechauns.
That said, I was surprised to see how low wages were in Dublin. Ireland's GDP per capita is about two and a half that of the UK, but wages at the bottom are less.
Trickle down does not seem to be an Irish thing.
Ah Borchy the glazed one line wonder. For once managing 3. The problem being is the silly English denial. The UK has a third world economy. And it took a English footballer, Marcus Rashford to point it out. Being 14th richest in Europe and between 28th and 38th Richest in the World. Or are you into the drivel 5th largest means 5th richest. And all your silly nonsense does not alter that fact one jot. Or would you like to prove otherwise. Nah. I did not think so. And oh jings. Ireland is the 3rd richest country in Europe. By the way. NI is the fastest growing economy in the UK. Or has that dented your ego as well. Or is the Office of National Statistic wrong as well. Economic Activity in NI increased at a faster rate compared to UK GDP over the 3 year period.4.8 per cent to1.3 per cent. And the reason. Brexit. Northern Ireland remains a part of the UK customs territory, while enforcing the EU Customs Code. NI remains in the EU single market and accordingly applies the necessary regulations and checks. As the Union Jack waving Billy boys try to wreck that But that and the sunny upland are way beyond you. Are you going to go in the huff as well. The point of your rant being. But heh why let facts get in the road of a rant. www.politico.eu/article/northern-ireland-economy-outpace-post-brexit-britain/ |
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Post by Tinculin on Jan 3, 2023 21:17:38 GMT
jaydeeHere is a report by the Irish Central bank itself, stating why your claim is incorrect. It also explains why its in error and why GDP per capita is a poor metric to use to claim Ireland or any other small population country is top of the worlds wealth charts. Ultimately as i've tried to explain, it's far more nuanced than what you would like it to be. But here is the full indepth report, if you can be bothered to look past your need to be correct and instead educate yourself. Personally I'd consider the Irish Central Bank to be more of an expert on the state of the Irish economy than you or some 3rd party sites you've been linking, agreed? www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/economic-letters/vol-2021-no-1-is-ireland-really-the-most-prosperous-country-in-europe.pdf
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Post by thomas on Jan 4, 2023 9:44:47 GMT
jaydee is merely doing what unionists do all the time , posting cherry picked stats to enforce a political point.
Wether ireland is a richer country or its people better off isnt the point though.
If the uk is such a great place to be , why isnt the republic of ireland or any other country desperate to rejoin? We arent just talking one disgrunteld country , but 62 nations across the world who were either in the union or at least under london rule.
I think that speaks volumes rather than any economic stat.
Banana republics in the carribean would rather be free and independent than live under london rule.
The hypocrisy of a country , thats England , that stuck two fingers up to a union of nations on our european continent while lecturing us jocks taffs and paddies about the evils of independence is unbelievable.
Economically It would make sense fort the UK to remove Scotland tomorrow and be grateful we're free of a substantial economic burden, so while we're arguing this from a different standpoint, we probably agree on the outcome. Scotland costs the UK far too much money, at the expense of the rest of the UK. But back on topic and to the post we're actually responding too, any suggestion that Ireland is not only 'richer' than the UK, but also 'richer' than France, Germany, or the United States is just in complete error. Well why doesnt the ruk remove scotland then ? The above argument makes not one bit of sense. The same argument was app;ied to every single country of the old empire. For 200 years , british accountants told the indians of the sub continent they were economically unviable according to the indian politician shashi tharoor , until the indians got independence ,and indian economists worked out the british had stolen £45 trillion in those days money from them.
You can see why the uk is sliding down the economic legue table , and has been for the past century , wihtout all these countires to plunder for wealth and resources.
Back on topic , what jaydee is saying about ireland is true in terms of gdp. Antoerh thing i read was that the third poorest in ireland and far more better off than the third poorest in the uk.
As we know , economic stats though are rather a blunt and misleading instrument for judging a countries wealth and well being. The fact remains though , if ireland isnt doing as well as you imply outside the uk as it was in , why isnt it clamouring to rejoin?
Its not a difficult question or expression of logic. You dont need tobe an economic genius to see not one of the 62 countires who were told by london they were too poor to survive outside the empire( including wee malta , the size of Arran and a popualtion the size of Edinbrugh) not one has asked to come back under the so called laughable economic safety of the basket case that is the declining uk.
Last thing i will say , i have known jaydee across different forums and i have yet to see anyone prove him wrong....
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Post by jaydee on Jan 4, 2023 9:57:40 GMT
jaydee Here is a report by the Irish Central bank itself, stating why your claim is incorrect. It also explains why its in error and why GDP per capita is a poor metric to use to claim Ireland or any other small population country is top of the worlds wealth charts. Ultimately as i've tried to explain, it's far more nuanced than what you would like it to be. But here is the full indepth report, if you can be bothered to look past your need to be correct and instead educate yourself. Personally I'd consider the Irish Central Bank to be more of an expert on the state of the Irish economy than you or some 3rd party sites you've been linking, agreed? If you are going to put up graphs. Then get them right. That is purchasing power. And the IMF and the world bank know more about it than a opinion. They are not giving opinions. They are going by facts from data. And before you go trawling all over the net, as your ego has clearly been dented. Why I have no idea. Many of them show that the UK is the 5th RICHEST country in the world. They are plain and simply wrong. It is the 5th l argest economy in the world. That is correct.. Now this is the 5th time I have asked you. I have given you 5 links, I will give you more if you need them. All show that the UK is the 14th Richest country in Europe. Not a opinion.. With my maths. That makes it impossible to be the 5th richest in the world. You tell me how they are wrong. How many times do you need asking. FFS Scotland GDP is twice that of England. And you still have not told me how Scotland is a drag on England. That is what you said. Far be it for me to give advice. But two things. If you are going to post something be in a position to back it up. A failure every time your countrymen come on the Scottish forum. Most so stupid it is unbelievable and just come onto belittle. And two. The first law of politics. When in a hole stop digging. With seven decades of dealing with this. You are simply just not going to admit you are wrong. That was obvious when you went of on a tangent about what the salary in Ireland was. Do you think you are dealing with a numptie or something |
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Post by Tinculin on Jan 4, 2023 10:00:06 GMT
I mean the Irish central bank article just did prove him wrong and there wasn’t any partisan politics here, the Irish bank didn’t produce that article and state that Ireland is not the top wealthiest nations to make a case for or against Scottish independence…, they did it because as they state quite clearly it’s obviously not the case and to explain why.
It’s just a demonstration how when you have a bias as he clearly does he’ll take whatever stats (no matter how wrong), he has to try and push a narrative
I.e. to use a pop culture reference, he’s fake news.
The only reason Scotland isn’t independent is because the people of Scotland had a referendum and voted against it.
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Post by thomas on Jan 4, 2023 10:03:01 GMT
The only reason Scotland isn’t independent is because the people of Scotland had a referendum and voted against it. We did. We wanted to stay part of a uk that was in the EU , and now clearly cant have that , so a new vote , either via elections or referenda , must and will be held.
Without the EU , the uk holds no interest for most scots , especially the under 60 `s
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Post by jaydee on Jan 4, 2023 10:08:23 GMT
I mean the Irish central bank article just did prove him wrong and there wasn’t any partisan politics here, the Irish bank didn’t produce that article to make a case for or against Scottish independence…. It’s just a demonstration how when you have a bias as he clearly does he’ll take whatever stats (no matter how wrong), he has to try and push a narrative I.e. to use a pop culture reference, he’s fake news. The only reason Scotland isn’t independent is because the people of Scotland had a referendum and voted against it. It is a opinion. And I have not taken one stat. I have given you at least 8 links. All saying the same. You are the one with one stat. That is clearly if you care to read it. A opinion. Not to mention it states what I have been saying. And it does not alter the fact that the UK is the 14th Richest country in Europe. The 6th time I have asked. How are the links I gave you wrong. And you still have not told me how Scotland drags England down. Scotland is the only UK nation to have exported more goods internationally than it has imported every year since records began. In terms of exports per head, Scotland outperforms the UK: Scotland exports £17,455 per head per year, while England exports £8,626 per head per year. Scotland is an exporting powerhouse, whose success has had nothing to do with being part of the UK, but whose future has been jeopardised due to the UK taking Scotland out of the European Union..Would you care to correct that And oh I am knocking on 80. Not just the under 60's |
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Post by jaydee on Jan 4, 2023 10:48:09 GMT
The only reason Scotland isn’t independent is because the people of Scotland had a referendum and voted against it. We did. We wanted to stay part of a uk that was in the EU , and now clearly cant have that , so a new vote , either via elections or referenda , must and will be held.
Without the EU , the uk holds no interest for most scots , especially the under 60 `s I find it odd that a man has just stated he would get rid of Scotland in a second as it drags England down, And cannot supply one reason why. It is the same with the likes of OM15, and his continual Jock hating tripe. Along with other who patrol spewing tripe. If Englishmen want rid of the Jocks. Could you tell me why they are so hell bent on destroying the SNP. If a English party came up wishing to leave the UK. I would be rooting for them. I am sure the SNP would also be giving as much assistance including cash to get it done. To me it does not compute. Then the rant most English want rid of the Jocks. What happened. Three weeks ago. English Tory's flooded out opposition debate. That debate was to change the wording of the Scotland act re the competence to hold a referendum on indy. It was flooded out by English Tory's who voted 265 to 42. The desperation is really setting in. |
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Post by Tinculin on Jan 4, 2023 10:53:52 GMT
The only reason Scotland isn’t independent is because the people of Scotland had a referendum and voted against it. We did. We wanted to stay part of a uk that was in the EU , and now clearly cant have that , so a new vote , either via elections or referenda , must and will be held.
Without the EU , the uk holds no interest for most scots , especially the under 60 `s
I mean, I voted remain, I think leaving the EU was a poor idea so understand your reasoning. |
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Post by research0it on Jan 4, 2023 10:53:57 GMT
This is going off topic but GVA per capita is a better measure of a country's wealth than GDP. The problem is that it's more difficult to measure. So difficult that many countries don't produce it.
There's really a new thread needed for true wealth and costs outside of spreadsheet calculations, which, if I can be bothered, I'll do.
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