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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 27, 2022 14:40:23 GMT
So far this year up to December 25, no fewar than 45,756 illegals crossed the channel from the safe state of France, a figure that is expected to reach 50,000 by December 31. That's a town the size of Aldershot added to the population this year.
I listened to Nigel Farage interview Tony Abbott who you may remember was the Australian prime minister who took a hard line against illegals landing by boat on the shores of Australia. He said he was faced with a simple choice, he could listen to the left and take a soft approach and allow them to land, which he said would have encouraged criminal traffickers to send more. Or he could make it clear from the very start they would not be allowed to land. He accepted it was controversial to begin with, but as we now know it was ultimately very successeful. He said as soon as migrants realised they would not be allowed to land in Australia, they stopped paying traffickers and the boats dried up.
OK the cross channel illegal problem is not exactly the same, but without a doubt what has made it worse is a consistently weak approach from prime ministers and politicians who are frightened of upsetting Macron and the EU. What's the betting that next year even more than 50,000 illegals from France land on English beaches, that is, unless someone in government grows a pair. Or perhaps, appoints Tony Abbott as Home Secretary.
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Post by Handyman on Dec 27, 2022 15:25:25 GMT
Indeed he did the right thing to stop it knowing full well all the problems that would follow if he had not made that decision.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 28, 2022 8:14:05 GMT
Another thing Tony Abbott said was that it's essential that the illegals never land (on their target destination). They have to be picked up at sea and taken away (to Papua New Guinea in their case). If you ever let them land in the UK you open yourself to a load of legal challenges from the Left - and it gives you problems in detaining them securely.
Yet I see no willingness on the part of any of our politicians to accept what Abbott says - despite the fact that it's obviously true. They continue to just talk about solutions.
The EU themselves are paying Turkey billions to detain millions of would-be migrants in detention camps. So the EU are well aware that allowing them to land in the EU causes problems with removing them - except to the UK by dinghy.
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Post by Morgan on Dec 28, 2022 8:25:45 GMT
So far this year up to December 25, no fewar than 45,756 illegals crossed the channel from the safe state of France, a figure that is expected to reach 50,000 by December 31. That's a town the size of Aldershot added to the population this year. I listened to Nigel Farage interview Tony Abbott who you may remember was the Australian prime minister who took a hard line against illegals landing by boat on the shores of Australia. He said he was faced with a simple choice, he could listen to the left and take a soft approach and allow them to land, which he said would have encouraged criminal traffickers to send more. Or he could make it clear from the very start they would not be allowed to land. He accepted it was controversial to begin with, but as we now know it was ultimately very successeful. He said as soon as migrants realised they would not be allowed to land in Australia, they stopped paying traffickers and the boats dried up. OK the cross channel illegal problem is not exactly the same, but without a doubt what has made it worse is a consistently weak approach from prime ministers and politicians who are frightened of upsetting Macron and the EU. What's the betting that next year even more than 50,000 illegals from France land on English beaches, that is, unless someone in government grows a pair. Or perhaps, appoints Tony Abbott as Home Secretary. And that's just the ones they know about. It's a dead certainty that there are thousands more arriving by other means that they don't know about. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 28, 2022 12:25:11 GMT
Another thing Tony Abbott said was that it's essential that the illegals never land (on their target destination). They have to be picked up at sea and taken away (to Papua New Guinea in their case). If you ever let them land in the UK you open yourself to a load of legal challenges from the Left - and it gives you problems in detaining them securely. . . . Why does that make any legal difference? They're in the UK as soon as they cross the line ~ midway in the channel. Arrest them on landing 'for suspicion of illegal immigration'. If they can't within 24 hours give a good explanation why their arrival method wasn't from a safe country then shove them off to some safe island. All legal under our 2022 legislation. Oh and any minors arrest and charge the parents (when found) for child abuse and make it clear they will never ever see their kids in this country again. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 28, 2022 16:33:14 GMT
Another thing Tony Abbott said was that it's essential that the illegals never land (on their target destination). They have to be picked up at sea and taken away (to Papua New Guinea in their case). If you ever let them land in the UK you open yourself to a load of legal challenges from the Left - and it gives you problems in detaining them securely. . . . Why does that make any legal difference? They're in the UK as soon as they cross the line ~ midway in the channel. Arrest them on landing 'for suspicion of illegal immigration'. If they can't within 24 hours give a good explanation why their arrival method wasn't from a safe country then shove them off to some safe island. All legal under our 2022 legislation. Oh and any minors arrest and charge the parents (when found) for child abuse and make it clear they will never ever see their kids in this country again. I listened to a sea captain with 30 years experience who was interviewed on Talk TV. He said he didn't understand why people who are picked up in the channel are not returned to France. He continued; if a vessel rescues people at sea, it is entirely the captains decision where he lands them, the captains decision is final. He said this is the internationally recognised law of the sea and it would be against international law for the French government to refuse permission for such a vessel to enter a French port. As I've said many times, the spineless UK government are frightened to upset the EU/French authorities. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 28, 2022 16:49:02 GMT
Because you physically cannot return them to France without France agreeing
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 28, 2022 17:47:32 GMT
Because you physically cannot return them to France without France agreeing Did you miss this bit... I listened to a sea captain with 30 years experience who was interviewed on Talk TV. He said he didn't understand why people who are picked up in the channel are not returned to France. He continued; if a vessel rescues people at sea, it is entirely the captains decision where he lands them, the captains decision is final. He said this is the internationally recognised law of the sea and it would be against international law for the French government to refuse permission for such a vessel to enter a French port. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 28, 2022 19:40:33 GMT
Because you physically cannot return them to France without France agreeing Did you miss this bit... I listened to a sea captain with 30 years experience who was interviewed on Talk TV. He said he didn't understand why people who are picked up in the channel are not returned to France. He continued; if a vessel rescues people at sea, it is entirely the captains decision where he lands them, the captains decision is final. He said this is the internationally recognised law of the sea and it would be against international law for the French government to refuse permission for such a vessel to enter a French port.And if the French block his path, what's he going to do, call up his own Navy? Actually it's more like the French would arrest him and confiscate his boat but the point is still the same, you can't actually force the French to accept them back. I don't like it, you won't like it but it's best to deal with reality than deny it. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 28, 2022 20:51:08 GMT
Did you miss this bit... I listened to a sea captain with 30 years experience who was interviewed on Talk TV. He said he didn't understand why people who are picked up in the channel are not returned to France. He continued; if a vessel rescues people at sea, it is entirely the captains decision where he lands them, the captains decision is final. He said this is the internationally recognised law of the sea and it would be against international law for the French government to refuse permission for such a vessel to enter a French port.And if the French block his path, what's he going to do, call up his own Navy? Actually it's more like the French would arrest him and confiscate his boat but the point is still the same, you can't actually force the French to accept them back. I don't like it, you won't like it but it's best to deal with reality than deny it. LOL, honestly, I'm almost embarrassed to say this, again. Did you miss this bit... ...if a vessel rescues people at sea, it is entirely the captains decision where he lands them, the captains decision is final. He said this is the internationally recognised law of the sea and it would be against international law for the French government to refuse permission for such a vessel to enter a French port.
If the French did refuse access, then it would be a matter for international courts/UN. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 28, 2022 20:55:58 GMT
And when did you realise that that doesn't prevent them arresting the captain and confiscating his boat for 'facilitating illegal immigration'
Is tomorrow looking good?
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Post by sandypine on Dec 28, 2022 21:17:13 GMT
And when did you realise that that doesn't prevent them arresting the captain and confiscating his boat for 'facilitating illegal immigration' Is tomorrow looking good? The Captain of the rescue vessel is duty bound to take them to a safe place at his discretion. Returning them to whence they came is not only safe but realistically a return to their departure point. If the French behave in any way to block that action or to arrest the Captain and impound the rescue ship it is the French who are at odds with international law. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 28, 2022 21:23:30 GMT
And when did you realise that that doesn't prevent them arresting the captain and confiscating his boat for 'facilitating illegal immigration' Is tomorrow looking good? The Captain of the rescue vessel is duty bound to take them to a safe place at his discretion. Returning them to whence they came is not only safe but realistically a return to their departure point. If the French behave in any way to block that action or to arrest the Captain and impound the rescue ship it is the French who are at odds with international law. You wish, best of luck convincing any ship's captain that would be of any use to them when they're in a French jail minus one ship. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 28, 2022 21:27:51 GMT
And when did you realise that that doesn't prevent them arresting the captain and confiscating his boat for 'facilitating illegal immigration' Is tomorrow looking good? OMG, what's he like. Steve, I accept the French may refuse a vessel to dock, or if said vessel did dock, the captain may be arrested. What you seem incapable of accepting is the 'fact' that Macron did not pen the laws of the sea, that was the UN. And the laws of the sea states that if a vessel picks up people who are in peril it is entirely the Captains decision where he lands them, the only proviso set down by the UN is that it must be safe port. If Macron, and I accept he might, refused access to such a vessel, or arrested the captain, he would have to answer to an international court, or the UN. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 28, 2022 21:31:39 GMT
No he would almost certainly not. You've got to get an international court to hear the case and France with its UN veto can block a lot of them
Which international court did you have in mind?
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