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Post by Vinny on Dec 26, 2022 13:32:47 GMT
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Post by bancroft on Dec 26, 2022 14:51:28 GMT
I think Hydrogen will be part of this already testing Hydrogen in some towns up North with switching from gas.
The good thing is if it can work no more oil crisis's or at least much less painful.
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Post by Vinny on Dec 26, 2022 15:07:16 GMT
And hydrogen can burn in internal combustion engines.
The idea of banning a tried and tested tech, in favour of electric vehicles (which for over 120 years people have been experimenting with and running up against the same problems charging & range limitations) is a bit bonkers, to put it politely.
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Post by bancroft on Dec 26, 2022 15:22:10 GMT
I see your point yet also think these will be hydrogen fuel cells rather than Hydrogen combustion engines.
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Post by Vinny on Dec 26, 2022 16:34:19 GMT
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Post by patman post on Dec 26, 2022 17:20:53 GMT
It seems you’re backing horses that have yet to prove themselves in a truly competitive way. From your link:
The converted Toyota Corolla completed 358 laps around Fuji Speedway, a distance of 1,634km. This was less than half the 763 laps travelled by the winning car, and the vehicle notched up 11 hours and 54 minutes of racing on the track, and during the rest of the 24 hours about eight hours were spent conducting repairs and safety checks in the pits, with around four hours needed for refuelling hydrogen.
Eventually the motive mechanics of road vehicles are likely to prove themselves less expensive and easier to produce than ICE powered vehicles, whatever fuel they burn…
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Post by Steve on Dec 26, 2022 17:32:06 GMT
I think Hydrogen will be part of this already testing Hydrogen in some towns up North with switching from gas. The good thing is if it can work no more oil crisis's or at least much less painful. But as Steppenwolf pointed out in the net Zero thread burning Hydrogen in Internal Combustion engines has huge problems You can burn it inefficiently or you can create lots of toxic NOx |
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Post by Steve on Dec 26, 2022 17:39:53 GMT
You do know that the UK is banning them exactly the same time don't you and in fact banning pure combustion engine cars from sale from 2030? It's not just the EU As to your points I agree them all and add to that the shear hypocrisy of not addressing the big polluters of trucks and cargo ships at same time. It's all about shallow politicians making gestures rather than leading with robust policies - both here and in the EU countries. IMHO this will be like the ban on FM and AM radio stations that was supposed to come in by 2015. Well it didn't because it was equally not thought through |
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Post by Vinny on Dec 26, 2022 17:47:59 GMT
Yes, I know our government is, but I suspect they'll have a rethink as we get closer to the date and the proposal becomes more and more obviously flawed...
NOX emissions can be reduced with tech.
Catalytic converters for example.
NOx adsorbers are another method.
The residual NOx emissions will be no worse than from present fuels which are also causing carbon monoxide emissions as well as CO2.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 26, 2022 18:04:58 GMT
EV's facing a few problems due to the cold...
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Post by Steve on Dec 26, 2022 21:01:41 GMT
Yes, I know our government is, but I suspect they'll have a rethink as we get closer to the date and the proposal becomes more and more obviously flawed... NOX emissions can be reduced with tech. Catalytic converters for example. NOx adsorbers are another method. The residual NOx emissions will be no worse than from present fuels which are also causing carbon monoxide emissions as well as CO2. But their aim is to be far better than with current fuels. And considering the dangers NOx emissions produce they can't just accept them. And the post combustion methods only reduce NOx levels. It is an issue and there are no simple solutions here. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 26, 2022 22:20:08 GMT
Where's all the electricity comming from? |
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Post by Vinny on Dec 26, 2022 23:30:48 GMT
Where's all the electricity comming from? Exactly, they haven't built the power stations, their policy is to shut down loads of power stations to cut their carbon footprint. What they're wanting to do is unworkable. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 26, 2022 23:42:59 GMT
Where's all the electricity comming from? Exactly, they haven't built the power stations, their policy is to shut down loads of power stations to cut their carbon footprint. What they're wanting to do is unworkable. Absolutely agree. Western governments are falling over themselves to be seen as 'green'. But they are running before they can walk, all their virtue signalling will achieve is fuel poverty and failing economies as China gets ever stronger. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 27, 2022 7:52:59 GMT
NOX emissions can be reduced with tech. Catalytic converters for example. NOx adsorbers are another method. The residual NOx emissions will be no worse than from present fuels which are also causing carbon monoxide emissions as well as CO2. Diesels can be cleaned up by using Adblue, which is basically ammonia and, with a reduction catalytic converter, can convert NOx to nitrogen and water. So the same could be done with devices that burn hydrogen, but remember that hydrogen burns at a higher temperature than diesel and will generate more NOx - and remember that the idea of reduction cats didn't really catch on with cars. It's expensive and bulky technology and virtually nobody buys diesel cars now - they're even less popular than all-electric cars. Also can you imagine people attaching this stuff to a boiler? The idea that we can move over to all electric cars at ANY time in the future is crazy. I think it's a kind of collective madness that seems to grip politicians every now and then. They make a law and then expect technology to deliver it for them. Unfortunately there are so many problems with the concept of battery powered electric cars that they will never work. I could list all the problems but it would take several pages and you probably know them anyway. And I just read another one the other day. Apparently, because of the colossal weight of the batteries, an average BEV weighs about 2.2 tons - whereas and average ICE car weighs about 1.4 tons. The problem is that BEVs will breach most of our multi-storey car parks' load limits. Nobody ever thinks these things through. |
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