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Post by see2 on Dec 18, 2022 13:35:20 GMT
Just been listening to Corbyn on LBC. He started very sensibly discussing the nurses strike, pointing out that they're not after a pay rise but pay maintenance to keep up with the cost of living.
I even found myself nodding along, agreeing with Jeremy Corbyn. And that never happens.
And then came the whammy: Part of his proposed "Solution" is the seizure of private medical facilities. "Not paying for them" he said "...But taking them into public ownership".
Theft, in other words.
Leaving aside the practical considerations, the guy's an out and out fascist - that's the sort of things the Nazis did.
And idiots still think that voting Labour is a good idea.
You never miss an opportunity to dismiss your own far right position by falsely claiming the left are the true fascists/Nazis. You are a political joke. |
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Post by Handyman on Dec 18, 2022 13:38:59 GMT
For years the Labour Party have claimed they invented the " Welfare State including the NHS " they did not, the beginnings of what came about started back in the early 1900's during WW2 Churchill tasked Beveridge a Liberal to plan it in order help the UK to be a better place when the War ended, all Labour did was put his idea and plans into place in 1945 as they had won the GE at the end of the war.
As for Corbyn he is nearly as daft as his brother
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Post by see2 on Dec 18, 2022 13:58:21 GMT
For years the Labour Party have claimed they invented the " Welfare State including the NHS " they did not, the beginnings of what came about started back in the early 1900's during WW2 Churchill tasked Beveridge a Liberal to plan it in order help the UK to be a better place when the War ended, all Labour did was put his idea and plans into place in 1945 as they had won the GE at the end of the war. As for Corbyn he is nearly as daft as his brother Put forward the idea yes but not the degree of action. IIRC every single Conservative MP voted against the introduction of the NHS. |
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Post by borchester on Dec 18, 2022 15:22:22 GMT
For years the Labour Party have claimed they invented the " Welfare State including the NHS " they did not, the beginnings of what came about started back in the early 1900's during WW2 Churchill tasked Beveridge a Liberal to plan it in order help the UK to be a better place when the War ended, all Labour did was put his idea and plans into place in 1945 as they had won the GE at the end of the war. As for Corbyn he is nearly as daft as his brother Put forward the idea yes but not the degree of action. IIRC every single Conservative MP voted against the introduction of the NHS. Well sort of.
The Tories wanted personal insurance schemes, Labour wanted a tax on employers and Bevan twigged that the only way to get it to work was via direct taxation.
Almost everyone wanted the NHS. The real argument was not so much about the funding but how it was to be collected.
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Post by Handyman on Dec 18, 2022 15:43:32 GMT
I agree if I recall correctly both sides of the Commons wanted the scheme to be put in place but some wanted changes made, some thought it was too soon after the war had ended and wanted to delay it for a couple of years, but it went ahead very few voted against it
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Post by borchester on Dec 18, 2022 16:30:04 GMT
I agree if I recall correctly both sides of the Commons wanted the scheme to be put in place but some wanted changes made, some thought it was too soon after the war had ended and wanted to delay it for a couple of years, but it went ahead very few voted against it True, and with the exception of a few neanderthals in all parties, most politicians saw it as a vote winner so they supported the NHS. What no one realised was how expensive the whole thing would become |
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Post by om15 on Dec 18, 2022 16:49:07 GMT
What is a bugger is that Sir Keir Starmer, that wholehearted Corbyn supporter actively campaigned against Brexit after the vote, indeed, two years after the referendum he claimed that it was still possible to stop Brexit, and this is bloke that wants to be PM in two years time.
We may be stuck with Rishi Washi simply because no one (including the labour party) has a clue what the labour party stands for. Sir Keir says the first thing that his advisors tell him, and his deputy what she has been told to say by a Manchester workingman's club, the members of which don't work.
The entire NHS should be put out to tender to organisations with a proven track record, say tescos, all staff dismissed and the savings put into a fund to treat people privately.
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Post by see2 on Dec 18, 2022 16:52:38 GMT
I agree if I recall correctly both sides of the Commons wanted the scheme to be put in place but some wanted changes made, some thought it was too soon after the war had ended and wanted to delay it for a couple of years, but it went ahead very few voted against it True, and with the exception of a few neanderthals in all parties, most politicians saw it as a vote winner so they supported the NHS. What no one realised was how expensive the whole thing would become Health AFAIA is apparently cheaper in this country than in any other comparable country. A big fuss is made of the costs forgetting just how important the NHS is to the health of the country. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 18, 2022 16:58:34 GMT
What is a bugger is that Sir Keir Starmer, that wholehearted Corbyn supporter actively campaigned against Brexit after the vote, indeed, two years after the referendum he claimed that it was still possible to stop Brexit, and this is bloke that wants to be PM in two years time. We may be stuck with Rishi Washi simply because no one (including the labour party) has a clue what the labour party stands for. Sir Keir says the first thing that his advisors tell him, and his deputy what she has been told to say by a Manchester workingman's club, the members of which don't work. The entire NHS should be put out to tender to organisations with a proven track record, say tescos, all staff dismissed and the savings put into a fund to treat people privately. It is necessary for people to be open and honest about -- ALL-- politics or the UK will continue to suffer bad politicians. Kier Starmer has accepted the fact that Brexit happened. He has to look forward to and to plan for the possibility of being a PM of a post Brexit UK. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Dec 18, 2022 17:11:54 GMT
Corbyn was never a supporter of the EU due to his socialist principles. Without him Brexit would never have happened. But that decision has long been made as has the decision on whether Corbyn will be PM or his ideas be relevant to today and future elections. What! Are you on something? You claim Brexit would never have happened without Corbyn?  I'd agree with Dappy here. Corbyn may have nominally have been a remainer (whilst Boris was nominally a leaver), but he'd never been keen on the EU. He went missing for all of the referendum campaign and I wouldn't be surprised if he actually voted leave. Would it have made a difference if he'd campaigned for leave? We'll never know. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 18, 2022 18:27:22 GMT
Say what you like about Corbyn, his master plan for the ultimate nuclear deterrent was not to have one. And that was truly a stroke of genius. Deterrence works by making your opponent fear you will strike down their civilisation but no one can be certain. Not bothering with the expense of a nuclear deterrent is surely the ultimate step in leaving your enemy guessing Of course the one thing you can never do if you want this strategy to work is go on the Andrew Marr show on a Sunday and tell the whole world this is your master plan Oh, hang on … Yes - Labours defence policy was a master plan of stupidity. The best bit was the idea that they would go ahead and build the new nuclear missile subs but just not put any actual missiles on them..  |
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Post by Toreador on Dec 18, 2022 18:51:43 GMT
What is a bugger is that Sir Keir Starmer, that wholehearted Corbyn supporter actively campaigned against Brexit after the vote, indeed, two years after the referendum he claimed that it was still possible to stop Brexit, and this is bloke that wants to be PM in two years time. We may be stuck with Rishi Washi simply because no one (including the labour party) has a clue what the labour party stands for. Sir Keir says the first thing that his advisors tell him, and his deputy what she has been told to say by a Manchester workingman's club, the members of which don't work. The entire NHS should be put out to tender to organisations with a proven track record, say tescos, all staff dismissed and the savings put into a fund to treat people privately. It is necessary for people to be open and honest about -- ALL-- politics or the UK will continue to suffer bad politicians. Kier Starmer has accepted the fact that Brexit happened. He has to look forward to and to plan for the possibility of being a PM of a post Brexit UK. I've suffered bad politicians for the past 85 years, you must have suffered the same for even longer. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 19, 2022 10:20:56 GMT
We may be stuck with Rishi Washi simply because no one (including the labour party) has a clue what the labour party stands for. I think it far more likely the failure of the Labour Party to have a majority in the next GE, if it happens, will be widespread rejection of the party leader as a piece of lying shit whose stated desire to ‘U’ turn on almost everything he said he stood for up to 2019 simply isn’t credible. Where Labour would, or should go from there other than a mass suicide over the nearest available cliff, I can’t imagine. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 19, 2022 10:46:22 GMT
Put forward the idea yes but not the degree of action. IIRC every single Conservative MP voted against the introduction of the NHS. Well sort of.
The Tories wanted personal insurance schemes, Labour wanted a tax on employers and Bevan twigged that the only way to get it to work was via direct taxation.
Almost everyone wanted the NHS. The real argument was not so much about the funding but how it was to be collected.
Almost everyone may have wanted a vast improvement on what went before, but there were some different views on what should be done. For those on the left of politics the idea of insurance schemes was the short road to a two tier health service where only those who could afford it would get proper care. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 19, 2022 10:49:31 GMT
We may be stuck with Rishi Washi simply because no one (including the labour party) has a clue what the labour party stands for. I think it far more likely the failure of the Labour Party to have a majority in the next GE, if it happens, will be widespread rejection of the party leader as a piece of lying shit whose stated desire to ‘U’ turn on almost everything he said he stood for up to 2019 simply isn’t credible. Where Labour would, or should go from there other than a mass suicide over the nearest available cliff, I can’t imagine. Well you are quite able to think the worst of Labour, so you probably wouldn't have to stretch your imagination too far to come up with an idea  |
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