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Post by zanygame on Dec 17, 2022 15:33:31 GMT
To include the whole story would require volumes. But to cover off your point. If fraud is as you link £193Bn Pa. That represent 0.06% of GDP. So not a significant number in the game. Before somebody else tells you your mistake it is 193 billion alone now equate that with government debt repayments. Yes but its another 'angels dancing on a pin head' questions. Imagine if we stopped all crime what could that save. No locks on doors, no police, no anti theft devices, no lawyers etc etc etc. But its impossible to achieve, so pointless considering. So unless you have a proposal on how we stop all fraud then saying it could be used to reduce debt is pointless. In the meantime we must do what we can within the walls of reality. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 17, 2022 15:42:07 GMT
Sorry. I completely misread your post and as such my reply is nonsense. Starting again. I see no prospect of pensioner ever being called parasites. All I want is for them to stop thinking they are some sort of exception to the rules regarding income and expenditure. I think they will to a certain degree . Boomers had it easy, old people are a drain on the economy , old people with nice houses and a pension when young families are poor ..are all pretty much mantras for some now. Eventually it will be encouraged . Pensioners aren’t exception to the rules . The state pension is a pittance . I think these claims are in part a reaction to the pensioners constant claim that they have paid their dues and deserve to be free of the countries problems. The boomers making hay without care for the future. Taking more out than they put in (because it was promised) regardless of reality. Even willing to sell the future of the planet (global warming) for good times now. Perhaps both sides are wrong, but there are both sides. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 17, 2022 15:49:59 GMT
I think they will to a certain degree . Boomers had it easy, old people are a drain on the economy , old people with nice houses and a pension when young families are poor ..are all pretty much mantras for some now. Eventually it will be encouraged . Pensioners aren’t exception to the rules . The state pension is a pittance . I think these claims are in part a reaction to the pensioners constant claim that they have paid their dues and deserve to be free of the countries problems. The boomers making hay without care for the future. Taking more out than they put in (because it was promised) regardless of reality. Even willing to sell the future of the planet (global warming) for good times now. Perhaps both sides are wrong, but there are both sides. Pensioners claim that they have paid their dues because they have. Pensioners never made hay without a care. Pensioners took the opportunities at the time and SOME are lucky enough to live a reasonable existence . What pensioners have now is all they will ever have . Why their is such bitterness by some because they may get a modest rise in their pensions is possibly because they are the last demographic that can be outrightly labelled as some kind of grasping, backward looking , slackers . |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 17, 2022 15:57:27 GMT
Before somebody else tells you your mistake it is 193 billion alone now equate that with government debt repayments. Yes but its another 'angels dancing on a pin head' questions. Imagine if we stopped all crime what could that save. No locks on doors, no police, no anti theft devices, no lawyers etc etc etc. But its impossible to achieve, so pointless considering. So unless you have a proposal on how we stop all fraud then saying it could be used to reduce debt is pointless. In the meantime we must do what we can within the walls of reality. You are starting to sound like a national security threat. Attacking pensioners and the poor while you want more to cover for fraud. Government or otherwise. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 17, 2022 16:06:26 GMT
I think these claims are in part a reaction to the pensioners constant claim that they have paid their dues and deserve to be free of the countries problems. The boomers making hay without care for the future. Taking more out than they put in (because it was promised) regardless of reality. Even willing to sell the future of the planet (global warming) for good times now. Perhaps both sides are wrong, but there are both sides. Pensioners claim that they have paid their dues because they have. Pensioners never made hay without a care. Pensioners took the opportunities at the time and SOME are lucky enough to live a reasonable existence . What pensioners have now is all they will ever have . Why their is such bitterness by some because they may get a modest rise in their pensions is possibly because they are the last demographic that can be outrightly labelled as some kind of grasping, backward looking , slackers . There's the rub. You put the pensioners position beautifully but ignore that of the young. In order to go forward both sides need to be understood. (I'm 64 btw) Imagine you are a twenty something knowing that we were aware of global warming 30 years ago, but did nothing because it was too expensive. Imagine you were the young who didn't want Brexit and would be most effected by it, but saw the old who's pensions were safe vote for it anyway. The old have stopped being our wise guides and become only about themselves. That is what I hear from them. |
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Post by Toreador on Dec 17, 2022 16:20:48 GMT
Pensioners claim that they have paid their dues because they have. Pensioners never made hay without a care. Pensioners took the opportunities at the time and SOME are lucky enough to live a reasonable existence . What pensioners have now is all they will ever have . Why their is such bitterness by some because they may get a modest rise in their pensions is possibly because they are the last demographic that can be outrightly labelled as some kind of grasping, backward looking , slackers . There's the rub. You put the pensioners position beautifully but ignore that of the young. In order to go forward both sides need to be understood. (I'm 64 btw) Imagine you are a twenty something knowing that we were aware of global warming 30 years ago, but did nothing because it was too expensive. Imagine you were the young who didn't want Brexit and would be most effected by it, but saw the old who's pensions were safe vote for it anyway. The old have stopped being our wise guides and become only about themselves. That is what I hear from them. Perhps if the young appreciated the advice of the old, perhaps if the parents of the young appreciated the advice of the old and perhaps if governments welcomed the old advising the young but they don't. What they want is people trained in a certain way to advise the young; it's called indoctrination. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 17, 2022 16:27:40 GMT
There's the rub. You put the pensioners position beautifully but ignore that of the young. In order to go forward both sides need to be understood. (I'm 64 btw) Imagine you are a twenty something knowing that we were aware of global warming 30 years ago, but did nothing because it was too expensive. Imagine you were the young who didn't want Brexit and would be most effected by it, but saw the old who's pensions were safe vote for it anyway. The old have stopped being our wise guides and become only about themselves. That is what I hear from them. Perhps if the young appreciated the advice of the old, perhaps if the parents of the young appreciated the advice of the old and perhaps if governments welcomed the old advising the young but they don't. What they want is people trained in a certain way to advise the young; it's called indoctrination. Good job you said, I was about to dip in the pocket while having my intelligence insulted to help the little cherubs out. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 17, 2022 16:36:58 GMT
Pensioners claim that they have paid their dues because they have. Pensioners never made hay without a care. Pensioners took the opportunities at the time and SOME are lucky enough to live a reasonable existence . What pensioners have now is all they will ever have . Why their is such bitterness by some because they may get a modest rise in their pensions is possibly because they are the last demographic that can be outrightly labelled as some kind of grasping, backward looking , slackers . There's the rub. You put the pensioners position beautifully but ignore that of the young. In order to go forward both sides need to be understood. (I'm 64 btw) Imagine you are a twenty something knowing that we were aware of global warming 30 years ago, but did nothing because it was too expensive. Imagine you were the young who didn't want Brexit and would be most effected by it, but saw the old who's pensions were safe vote for it anyway. The old have stopped being our wise guides and become only about themselves. That is what I hear from them. If you are 64 then you might remember that Global cooling was something that we were supposed to worry about for a number of years. Plus the nuclear threat from the USSR and later on global terrorism. Global warming was considered another one..not THE one . Boomers didn’t do nothing because it was too expensive, they did nothing in the same context as not building nuclear shelters . Pensioners didnt vote for Brexit to make young people suffer. They voted Brexit because they saw membership of the EU as a way to stagnate wages and extinguish a British identity . Something they thought was valuable. Also if how demographics vote is used against them by subsequent generations within 6 years , that should flag up a problem with the ones that use it against them. The old don’t have much of a platform anyway . A sense if duty, nuclear families and some kind of religious beliefs are pretty much extinct except for Muslims . Who seem to hold their old people in esteem. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Dec 17, 2022 16:59:35 GMT
Has well has the excessive state pension to the tune of costing the tax payers a staggering sum of £107billion a year they also get free peerks.
Council tax/reduction , free medical prescriptons, Free public travel, cold weather payment ,cost of living payments,
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Post by zanygame on Dec 17, 2022 17:02:09 GMT
There's the rub. You put the pensioners position beautifully but ignore that of the young. In order to go forward both sides need to be understood. (I'm 64 btw) Imagine you are a twenty something knowing that we were aware of global warming 30 years ago, but did nothing because it was too expensive. Imagine you were the young who didn't want Brexit and would be most effected by it, but saw the old who's pensions were safe vote for it anyway. The old have stopped being our wise guides and become only about themselves. That is what I hear from them. Perhps if the young appreciated the advice of the old, perhaps if the parents of the young appreciated the advice of the old and perhaps if governments welcomed the old advising the young but they don't. What they want is people trained in a certain way to advise the young; it's called indoctrination. The old never understand change. Tis the way of the world. Ahh the good old days, which are definitely old, but not necessarily good. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 17, 2022 17:06:09 GMT
Has well has the excessive state pension to the tune of costing the tax payers a staggering sum of £107billion a year they also get free peerks. Council tax/reduction , free medical prescriptons, Free public travel, cold weather payment ,cost of living payments, Cheeky bastards and the perpetrators of all that fraud. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 17, 2022 17:09:54 GMT
There's the rub. You put the pensioners position beautifully but ignore that of the young. In order to go forward both sides need to be understood. (I'm 64 btw) Imagine you are a twenty something knowing that we were aware of global warming 30 years ago, but did nothing because it was too expensive. Imagine you were the young who didn't want Brexit and would be most effected by it, but saw the old who's pensions were safe vote for it anyway. The old have stopped being our wise guides and become only about themselves. That is what I hear from them. If you are 64 then you might remember that Global cooling was something that we were supposed to worry about for a number of years. Plus the nuclear threat from the USSR and later on global terrorism. Global warming was considered another one..not THE one . Boomers didn’t do nothing because it was too expensive, they did nothing in the same context as not building nuclear shelters . Pensioners didnt vote for Brexit to make young people suffer. They voted Brexit because they saw membership of the EU as a way to stagnate wages and extinguish a British identity . Something they thought was valuable. Also if how demographics vote is used against them by subsequent generations within 6 years , that should flag up a problem with the ones that use it against them. The old don’t have much of a platform anyway . A sense if duty, nuclear families and some kind of religious beliefs are pretty much extinct except for Muslims . Who seem to hold their old people in esteem. I remember them well. Did we sit back and do nothing? No we looked into the causes and solutions. All except global warming. You can claim that was the reason the old wanted Brexit, but it doesn't change the fact that those affected by Brexit (the young) did not want it, were the old playing god? You have fallen back behind your battlements, defending your position with no attempt at talking peace with the young. No wonder they consider you dinosaurs, you have made no attempt to show them other than you know best. As for claiming the high ground with family. The young consider this the biggest insult of all. You say they claim the old are selfish, but you claim they don't care for their families and children. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 17, 2022 17:12:42 GMT
"All except global warming". utter lies the UK is the fourth cleanest country on the planet.
Now you have to squirm around that one.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 17, 2022 17:14:32 GMT
If you are 64 then you might remember that Global cooling was something that we were supposed to worry about for a number of years. Plus the nuclear threat from the USSR and later on global terrorism. Global warming was considered another one..not THE one . Boomers didn’t do nothing because it was too expensive, they did nothing in the same context as not building nuclear shelters . Pensioners didnt vote for Brexit to make young people suffer. They voted Brexit because they saw membership of the EU as a way to stagnate wages and extinguish a British identity . Something they thought was valuable. Also if how demographics vote is used against them by subsequent generations within 6 years , that should flag up a problem with the ones that use it against them. The old don’t have much of a platform anyway . A sense if duty, nuclear families and some kind of religious beliefs are pretty much extinct except for Muslims . Who seem to hold their old people in esteem. I remember them well. Did we sit back and do nothing? No we looked into the causes and solutions. All except global warming. You can claim that was the reason the old wanted Brexit, but it doesn't change the fact that those affected by Brexit (the young) did not want it, were the old playing god? You have fallen back behind your battlements, defending your position with no attempt at talking peace with the young. No wonder they consider you dinosaurs, you have made no attempt to show them other than you know best. As for claiming the high ground with family. The young consider this the biggest insult of all. You say they claim the old are selfish, but you claim they don't care for their families and children.
You clearly haven't spoken to many young people Zany. You assume that your concerns are theirs.
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Post by zanygame on Dec 17, 2022 17:14:54 GMT
"All except global warming". utter lies the UK is the fourth cleanest country on the planet. Yes against the will of the old. Pretty much every old Tory voter on here is against the actions being taken to slow and stop climate change. |
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