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Post by dappy on Dec 12, 2022 16:30:22 GMT
We didnt shut out coal stations too quickly. Green power was expensive as it developed but is now cheaper than fossil fuels. Your facts are wrong.
Even f green power was more expensive, our (the whole of humanity) kids and grandkids can't afford selfish old us to keep on destroying their future. God knows we have done enough damage to our planet in the last couple of centuries - a mere blink of an eye in the grand scale of things. It really is time to stop.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 12, 2022 16:38:10 GMT
Ah OK then, I agree that the technology and what we have in place at the moment is not up to the job. There is another bitch fact we face as well. Russia produces about half the world's uranium.
You see in the beginning we as a country did a gamble and chucked a lot of money into new green technologies. Right now it is looking like the gamble paid off handsomely and will continue to do so as the point at which profit is realised in the money invested. So given we are out in front on this matter compared to many other countries it means we will get there sooner. There are various technical solutions to this storage and distribution problem and a lot is to do with clever computers which can balance it all up with international cables to even out the load. There will be a massive solar farm in Africa as well to feed us along a cable that runs that distance. You get 3x the energy for your investment near the equator.
What I think it will eventually mean is we will never have to compromise ourselves by relying on foreign imports of energy that we can not do without, such as when OPEC screwed us in the 70s. So in the past we have had to send the armies in to make sure our supply is guaranteed and it has caused no end up trouble. We will be sitting pretty if we end up paying half the price than we did with oil and gas. It is in fact crucial because those with the cheapest energy are those who get business setting up factories and the like. We could be an investment hotspot all because of cheaper energy, which we can make big profits on if we export the technology worldwide too.
As for right now, of course it makes sense to keep these coal power stations in case we need them. If we run out of energy now all our future will be unachievable. We need the energy to manufacture the green technologies.
The problem is governments, particularly western governments and especially our government, since at least 2008 have been more concerned about showing the world how 'green' they are, without fully considering the realities of being green. The fact is we closed our coal power stations too quickly and without a backup plan, other than Russian gas. We now know that renewable energy is expensive and unreliable and without massive subsidies private enterprise wouldn't be interested in it. The global solar farm in Africa is an interesting idea and works great, on paper. In reality it's a none starter, yes a solar panel in the Sahara generates three times more power than a solar panel in the UK, but transmission losses are not insignificant and the costs involved are eye watering, I think the initial cost was half a trillion dollars and the problems were huge. I seem to remember a major concern from an investors point of view was the risk involved in investing in countries that are not politically stable and you have no control over. I posted a link about it a while back... Here it is, have a look at this - youtu.be/7OpM_zKGE4o - it explains the problems of the global solar farm quite well. OK I'll take a look at that. I did try a while back to establish the economics of PV power generation but each one has a different economic performance. I've seen PV at 11p/watt with some suppliers in large quantities. Delivery from China is still costly at £7k per container, where once it was £3k and peaked at £10k. You can get 300 panels per container or 600 square meters. The thing is that even in the UK you can get about 1.2kwh of electricity per year for each watt of panel. This could make the payback period and generally the investment very profitable, far more so than 2% in a building society given to proles. Why we can't do it is because the stupid government can't upgrade the grid to handle it so some are having to wait many years before given permission to create a solar farm.
Edit - I've just noticed the first error in the calculations of the cost of the cable in the video. Not too smart.
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Post by Toreador on Dec 12, 2022 17:01:19 GMT
We didnt shut out coal stations too quickly. Green power was expensive as it developed but is now cheaper than fossil fuels. Your facts are wrong. Even f green power was more expensive, our (the whole of humanity) kids and grandkids can't afford selfish old us to keep on destroying their future. God knows we have done enough damage to our planet in the last couple of centuries - a mere blink of an eye in the grand scale of things. It really is time to stop. Not to the consumer it isn't. My provider advertises itself as a green energy provider yet I pay the same as those who buy from non-green sources. Despite numerous emails to my supplier I have yet to receive an explanation since I first asked the question in August last year. I am also awaiting an answer to the same question posed by an MP in Truss's first PMQs. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 12, 2022 17:43:52 GMT
We didnt shut out coal stations too quickly. Green power was expensive as it developed but is now cheaper than fossil fuels. Your facts are wrong. We are spending £10 Billion a year subsidising green energy and we have more green energy now than at any time in the past and our energy bills are at record levels. The idea that going green is the cheap option is nonsense on stilts. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 12, 2022 17:46:36 GMT
There will be a massive solar farm in Africa as well to feed us along a cable that runs that distance. You get 3x the energy for your investment near the equator. sounds great.. did someone move Morocco?  |
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Post by Toreador on Dec 12, 2022 17:47:33 GMT
We didnt shut out coal stations too quickly. Green power was expensive as it developed but is now cheaper than fossil fuels. Your facts are wrong. We are spending £10 Billion a year subsidising green energy and we have more green energy now than at any time in the past and our energy bills are at record levels. The idea that going green is the cheap option is nonsense on stilts. Dappy has left the building following several defeats.  |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 12, 2022 19:14:40 GMT
We didnt shut out coal stations too quickly. Green power was expensive as it developed but is now cheaper than fossil fuels. Your facts are wrong. Even f green power was more expensive, our (the whole of humanity) kids and grandkids can't afford selfish old us to keep on destroying their future. God knows we have done enough damage to our planet in the last couple of centuries - a mere blink of an eye in the grand scale of things. It really is time to stop. FFS how many times, it doesn't matter what we do in the UK, we are too small to make a difference. Our effect on the global environment is at worst, negligible. Meanwhile - unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/ |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 12, 2022 19:19:27 GMT
There will be a massive solar farm in Africa as well to feed us along a cable that runs that distance. You get 3x the energy for your investment near the equator. sounds great.. did someone move Morocco? The sun shines in far more places than just that country. If push came to shove we could float them off the coast in international waters. I personally would not put all my eggs in one basket. This is hedging your bets. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 12, 2022 19:26:18 GMT
We didnt shut out coal stations too quickly. Green power was expensive as it developed but is now cheaper than fossil fuels. Your facts are wrong. Even f green power was more expensive, our (the whole of humanity) kids and grandkids can't afford selfish old us to keep on destroying their future. God knows we have done enough damage to our planet in the last couple of centuries - a mere blink of an eye in the grand scale of things. It really is time to stop. FFS how many times, it doesn't matter what we do in the UK, we are too small to make a difference. Our effect on the global environment is at worst, negligible. Meanwhile - unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/Do you know why?
In China their geographical location is far further south than we are so even the poorest neighbourhoods have air conditioners.
They are working on the problem and have set targets to peak and to get to zero. Their argument is they are still developing so should get to burn their fair share while most of the problem comes from what we did in the industrial revolution and onwards from then.
Anyway, Greenpeace is full of shit.
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Post by dappy on Dec 12, 2022 19:27:47 GMT
We didnt shut out coal stations too quickly. Green power was expensive as it developed but is now cheaper than fossil fuels. Your facts are wrong. We are spending £10 Billion a year subsidising green energy and we have more green energy now than at any time in the past and our energy bills are at record levels. The idea that going green is the cheap option is nonsense on stilts. What are you referring to? |
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Post by dappy on Dec 12, 2022 19:29:27 GMT
We didnt shut out coal stations too quickly. Green power was expensive as it developed but is now cheaper than fossil fuels. Your facts are wrong. Even f green power was more expensive, our (the whole of humanity) kids and grandkids can't afford selfish old us to keep on destroying their future. God knows we have done enough damage to our planet in the last couple of centuries - a mere blink of an eye in the grand scale of things. It really is time to stop. FFS how many times, it doesn't matter what we do in the UK, we are too small to make a difference. Our effect on the global environment is at worst, negligible. Meanwhile - unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/The predictable response. But of course nobody is suggesting Britain can do this on its own. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 12, 2022 19:30:01 GMT
sounds great.. did someone move Morocco? The sun shines in far more places than just that country. If push came to shove we could float them off the coast in international waters. I personally would not put all my eggs in one basket. This is hedging your bets. Indeed, but one big downside to innovative new forms of renewable energy is cost. You cannot get away from the fact that with current technology renewables are unreliable and very expensive. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 12, 2022 19:38:25 GMT
Do you know why?
In China their geographical location is far further south than we are so even the poorest neighbourhoods have air conditioners.
They are working on the problem and have set targets to peak and to get to zero. Their argument is they are still developing so should get to burn their fair share while most of the problem comes from what we did in the industrial revolution and onwards from then.
Anyway, Greenpeace is full of shit.
LOL, to be fair that is exactly the response I expected from you. You are as ever Xi Jinping's UK rep. China are by far the biggest global polluters and by their own admission will be polluting even more in a decades time. But you say it's OK because they're just catching up. LOVFL. (Laugh out very fuckin loud) |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 12, 2022 19:42:56 GMT
The sun shines in far more places than just that country. If push came to shove we could float them off the coast in international waters. I personally would not put all my eggs in one basket. This is hedging your bets. Indeed, but one big downside to innovative new forms of renewable energy is cost. You cannot get away from the fact that with current technology renewables are unreliable and very expensive. With the current technology worldwide they are much cheaper than hydrocarbons now. It's just fuckwits holding us up, some in government, some running the energy firms and all sorts of bad incentives.
My favourite way of storing energy is heat, but we have not developed that one where it would be and easy thing to develop if we did not have such fuckwits in our universities. We might even be able to convert coal power stations to convert the heat back to electricity so you have dual function station: both as a last resort backup and as a stored heat to electricity generator.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 12, 2022 22:16:26 GMT
We are spending £10 Billion a year subsidising green energy and we have more green energy now than at any time in the past and our energy bills are at record levels. The idea that going green is the cheap option is nonsense on stilts. What are you referring to? the cost of renewable energy - what are you referring to? |
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