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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 9:58:33 GMT
Yes. Those emails were unsolicited and the recipients didn't give consent. Therefore, they broke electoral law. Breaking electoral law renders elections and referendums undemocratic, you know. So now we have established that the Remain camp spent far more than the Leave camp in total, we have moved on to 'unsolicited emails'. The £9 million the Government spent on leafleting the entire country was unsolicited - was that spending designed to alter the result of the referendum and therefore undemocratic? Yes, you have established that firmly in your head. And yes, you specifically asked to explore the subject of those emails which were unsolicited and to which the recipients did not give consent. Therefore, unlawful. No. The spending was not designed to alter the result. The spending was made before the actual referendum, if I'm not mistaken. And no, that spending did not render the referendum undemocratic. The expenditure and the actual mail blast were not unlawful. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 15, 2022 11:35:32 GMT
No. The spending was not designed to alter the result. The spending was made before the actual referendum, if I'm not mistaken. And no, that spending did not render the referendum undemocratic. The expenditure and the actual mail blast were not unlawful. really? - spending £9 Million telling people to vote remain was not intended to alter the result? Perhaps you need to go away and rethink that argument..  |
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Post by Steve on Dec 15, 2022 11:41:44 GMT
Influence the result not alter it
And feel free to show your proof that £9M was ever spent on that very anodine government leaflet
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 12:05:28 GMT
No. The spending was not designed to alter the result. The spending was made before the actual referendum, if I'm not mistaken. And no, that spending did not render the referendum undemocratic. The expenditure and the actual mail blast were not unlawful. really? - spending £9 Million telling people to vote remain was not intended to alter the result? Perhaps you need to go away and rethink that argument.. Yes, really. The £9M issue started in April 2016 or thereabouts. The referendum was in June 2016. So, in April 2016 or thereabouts, there were no results to alter yet. Unless, of course, you already knew in April 2016 or thereabouts that Leave was going to win by a wafer thin margin.   |
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Post by Steve on Dec 15, 2022 12:31:56 GMT
My recall is the government leaflet was distributed along with the Vote Leave leaflet and the Remain Leaflet so it would have been £9M sum for all 3. They certainly arrived at my house all together
The legislation only required that each was entitled to distribution to each household and not individual distributions.
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Post by Toreador on Dec 15, 2022 13:12:49 GMT
I only received one leaflet which recommended remain. I recollect substantial criticism was levelled at the government regarding the leave leaflet, including considerable objection from within the Tory Party.
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Post by sandypine on Dec 15, 2022 17:47:55 GMT
Where is the evidence it was skewed, we know there was an illegal overspend but where is the evidence that that overspend materially affected the outcome? Well feel free to prove that record breaking illegal spending in the regulated period had no effect on the result. best of luck with that Huh? We have a result that you believe is flawed but you present no evidence other that there was an overspend by one of the parties involved. I am not saying there was no effect but I asked for evidence that the effect would materially affect the result which realistically is the critical aspect. Otherwise we could all just turn round and say Mr x spent £10 too much so the result was skewed. You have to draw a line somewhere. So far you all seem to be saying there was an overspend therefore the result is wrong. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 15, 2022 18:09:35 GMT
My recall is the government leaflet was distributed along with the Vote Leave leaflet and the Remain Leaflet so it would have been £9M sum for all 3. They certainly arrived at my house all together The legislation only required that each was entitled to distribution to each household and not individual distributions. I believe, and I could be wrong, is that the Post Office get 10p per leaflet, so those sending out the leaflets would pay for each one. Leave and Remain leaflets seem to have been limited to certain areas. Whereas the government one went to every household and would have cost about 3 million just for delivery |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 15, 2022 18:23:51 GMT
My recall is the government leaflet was distributed along with the Vote Leave leaflet and the Remain Leaflet so it would have been £9M sum for all 3. They certainly arrived at my house all together The legislation only required that each was entitled to distribution to each household and not individual distributions. I believe, and I could be wrong, is that the Post Office get 10p per leaflet, so those sending out the leaflets would pay for each one. Leave and Remain leaflets seem to have been limited to certain areas. Whereas the government one went to every household and would have cost about 3 million just for delivery The government sent out their leaflet (which cost £9 million for the design, printing, distribution and an accompanying website) - then the Electoral Commission commission paid for one leaflet from each campaign. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 15, 2022 21:50:45 GMT
I believe, and I could be wrong, is that the Post Office get 10p per leaflet, so those sending out the leaflets would pay for each one. Leave and Remain leaflets seem to have been limited to certain areas. Whereas the government one went to every household and would have cost about 3 million just for delivery The government sent out their leaflet (which cost £9 million for the design, printing, distribution and an accompanying website) - then the Electoral Commission commission paid for one leaflet from each campaign. Nope The supposed £9M was based on the standard Royal Mail charge per property for distributing mass mail. At ~30p per household it would have been ~£9M I received the government leaflet and it had two added sections: one for Vote Leave and one for Remain. I wish I'd kept it. Vote Leave knew full well that such leaflets have near zero value. They wisely spent most of their money identifying potential swing voters and using Facebook etc to cleverly message them. Dominic Cummings who led their campaign has written in detail of this. But that targeting and messaging costs serious money and they ran out of allowable spend. So they used illegal spend. No one can prove how many votes it bought them (or more likely how many remain voters they deterred from voting) with those 'Serbia is joining' and like messages but it would not have been zero, could well have been that last week 2% swing that won it and most certainly we know the ever Vote Leave friendly Electoral Commission was never ever going to try to estimate the effect. So the referendum was skewed, illegally. It will forever be tainted |
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