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Post by Vinny on Nov 2, 2024 19:45:40 GMT
Too many losses in doing it in space.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 2, 2024 20:19:51 GMT
Too many losses in doing it in space. Think what you'd save in ground rent.   |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 2, 2024 20:26:53 GMT
Just make photovoltaic roofs.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 2, 2024 20:40:02 GMT
Just make photovoltaic roofs. The trouble is here we are buggered in the winter when radiation drops to about 10% of the summer peak. I think the answer is to run ultra high voltage DC lines down to Africa and pick the energy up from there. Going from electricity to hydrogen and then back to electricity is very inefficient. You are limited by the Carnot efficiency of a combustion process. That's a physical limit with no way round. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 2, 2024 20:49:31 GMT
Just make photovoltaic roofs. The trouble is here we are buggered in the winter when radiation drops to about 10% of the summer peak. I think the answer is to run ultra high voltage DC lines down to Africa and pick the energy up from there. Going from electricity to hydrogen and then back to electricity is very inefficient. You are limited by the Carnot efficiency of a combustion process. That's a physical limit with no way round. Weird thing is Baron, that all the rules change with renewables. Sunlight and wind are free so if we build the collection devices their is no limit to how much we can use, no cost per megawatt. Whole new way of thinking. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 2, 2024 20:49:40 GMT
No, the trouble is we don't produce enough electricity in our country and we have idiots trying to push everyone into electric vehicles thus placing more demand on the grid.
The answer is to keep petrol and diesel but produce them via renewable methods in hot, but civilised countries like Australia.
Have the solar panels there, carbon capture equipment there.
And turn seawater into hydrogen via electrolysis to react with the CO2 producing methanol, and refining it into high octane petrol, and diesel.
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Post by Vinny on Nov 2, 2024 20:50:55 GMT
The trouble is here we are buggered in the winter when radiation drops to about 10% of the summer peak. I think the answer is to run ultra high voltage DC lines down to Africa and pick the energy up from there. Going from electricity to hydrogen and then back to electricity is very inefficient. You are limited by the Carnot efficiency of a combustion process. That's a physical limit with no way round. Weird thing is Baron, that all the rules change with renewables. Sunlight and wind are free so if we build the collection devices their is no limit to how much we can use, no cost per megawatt. Whole new way of thinking. That is also true, capacity makes up for inefficiency. Have the photovoltaic tiles on practically every roof. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 2, 2024 21:01:17 GMT
No, the trouble is we don't produce enough electricity in our country and we have idiots trying to push everyone into electric vehicles thus placing more demand on the grid. The answer is to keep petrol and diesel but produce them via renewable methods in hot, but civilised countries like Australia. Have the solar panels there, carbon capture equipment there. And turn seawater into hydrogen via electrolysis to react with the CO2 producing methanol, and refining it into high octane petrol, and diesel. We produced 60% not from fossil last year and that's without the new sites on the doggerbank and the hebrides. At the same time every year we use lees, not more because of innovation I reckon by the end of 2025 that will be 80%, with gas still capable of making 40% Add to this that 90% of car charging is done at night when no one wants electricity but the wind still blows. And now electric cars go over 400 miles without a charge. I think your in danger of being left behind. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 3, 2024 11:18:50 GMT
The trouble is here we are buggered in the winter when radiation drops to about 10% of the summer peak. I think the answer is to run ultra high voltage DC lines down to Africa and pick the energy up from there. Going from electricity to hydrogen and then back to electricity is very inefficient. You are limited by the Carnot efficiency of a combustion process. That's a physical limit with no way round. Weird thing is Baron, that all the rules change with renewables. Sunlight and wind are free so if we build the collection devices their is no limit to how much we can use, no cost per megawatt. Whole new way of thinking. In theory I do not think there is a limit to the voltage you can send down a cable. Apply this thought experiment. You have two plates and a dielectric. Lets say the dielectric breaks down at a potential difference of one million volts. Now supposing you have three plates with dielectric between them as before. Now you have a total dielectric breakdown of 2 million volts. Now suppose these plates are concentric rings. The same applies. The fatter the cables the higher the voltage. Indeed big fat cables will have greater mechanical strength and will likely stay there forever. It's a one off capital investment that keeps on giving. No need for expensive mechanical combustion machines with finite life due to wear on moving parts. OK some dielectrics can degrade over time, but that's more a problem with electrolytic capacitors which are known for it. Others are entirely stable as far as I know.
Actually I just had a little look on this matter and it appears the time-dependent dielectric breakdown as it is known, is due to molecular bond stressing, which is affected by fluctuating temperature and fluctuating fields. DC does not fluctuate and undersea cables are kept at a very stable temperature.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 3, 2024 12:35:12 GMT
Weird thing is Baron, that all the rules change with renewables. Sunlight and wind are free so if we build the collection devices their is no limit to how much we can use, no cost per megawatt. Whole new way of thinking. That is also true, capacity makes up for inefficiency. Have the photovoltaic tiles on practically every roof. Look at the weather today. UK it is 12C, but where we want our panels is just a tad past the southern tip of Morocco. It is currently between 30 and 37C.
I was looking at this list of HVDC cables worldwide.
Most in Europe are 400kV or less. UK has one fo the very few above that at 600kV. China has dozens of 800kV.
What the UK needs to do is look at 800kV and above. With DC you get zero losses due to skin effect, so your only real loss is ohm's law V(drop) = IR so %loss = 100V(drop)/V. = 100IR/V. R is inversely proportional to the amount of copper, hence cost of materials, i.e. double the copper and half your power loss. However, double your voltage and that doubles your power so halves the power loss whilst using the same amount of copper.
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Post by Orac on Nov 3, 2024 15:07:55 GMT
The trouble is here we are buggered in the winter when radiation drops to about 10% of the summer peak. I think the answer is to run ultra high voltage DC lines down to Africa and pick the energy up from there. Going from electricity to hydrogen and then back to electricity is very inefficient. You are limited by the Carnot efficiency of a combustion process. That's a physical limit with no way round. Sunlight and wind are free Not in any real sense they're not It costs inconvenience and effort to collect wind or solar energy, in the same way that it costs effort and inconvenience to collect and burn coal |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2024 15:37:07 GMT
Sunlight and wind are free Not in any real sense they're not It costs inconvenience and effort to collect wind or solar energy, in the same way that it costs effort and inconvenience to collect and burn coal Not really. Coal costs money to mine for every shovel full. Oil and gas more so and have to be imported Once you have built a wind farm it collect energy with no further effort beyond maintenance and you certainly don't need to import wind. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 3, 2024 15:54:04 GMT
Not in any real sense they're not It costs inconvenience and effort to collect wind or solar energy, in the same way that it costs effort and inconvenience to collect and burn coal Not really. Coal costs money to mine for every shovel full. Oil and gas more so and have to be imported Once you have built a wind farm it collect energy with no further effort beyond maintenance and you certainly don't need to import wind. You are acknowledging the problem with what you are saying while not acknowledging it is a problem 'Beyond maintenance' is a very deceptive term ..that maintenance requires energy effort and resources, in the same way shoveling the next shovel full of coal. If wind and sun were genuinely 'free energy' we would all be rich because we all have all the energy we needed |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2024 16:20:20 GMT
Not really. Coal costs money to mine for every shovel full. Oil and gas more so and have to be imported Once you have built a wind farm it collect energy with no further effort beyond maintenance and you certainly don't need to import wind. You are acknowledging the problem with what you are saying while not acknowledging it is a problem 'Beyond maintenance' is a very deceptive term ..that maintenance requires energy effort and resources, in the same way shoveling the next shovel full of coal. If wind and sun were genuinely 'free energy' we would all be rich because we all have all the energy we needed Actually the original estimates for maintenance were found to be much over estimated. Because of that wind energy is considerably cheaper than all fossil fuels (Not to mention climate change)  |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 3, 2024 16:27:13 GMT
Not in any real sense they're not It costs inconvenience and effort to collect wind or solar energy, in the same way that it costs effort and inconvenience to collect and burn coal Not really. Coal costs money to mine for every shovel full. Oil and gas more so and have to be imported Once you have built a wind farm it collect energy with no further effort beyond maintenance and you certainly don't need to import wind. I think there is a problem with the blades. Materials can only take so much flexing before cracks begin to appear. They use drones to do regular inspections of the blades in offshore farms. Solar has a lifetime of 25 years, but some UK researchers have foind a way to extend that beyond 100 years. I guess that technology is the easier to extent its life. The turbines do get a lot of abuse. |
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