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Post by Orac on Nov 10, 2024 9:30:16 GMT
So it does Einstein, did that ever cross your mind? you are ethnic cleansing yourself as well. Ethic cleansing, that's just weird. I'll leave you with your demons. It's not that weird at all, you just studiously ignore the ELEPHANT in the room. You are doing this so persistently it's starting to look deliberate
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2024 9:42:33 GMT
Not disputing that Red. Its what I saw to back in the 1990's Every estate was built in the village envelope because you weren't allowed to build on the 'greenbelt' Ruined a lot of pretty villages that used to be surrounded by woods and grass fields. I was born and raised in Hardwick Cambs. Had a population of 300, take a look at it now on google. Anyway, the village envelopes are all filled up now and for the last 20 years what I have described was the next phase. Now we are starting to see huge new housing estates built on farm land, but were so far behind the number needed because building land was restricted for all those years after the village envelopes got filled. Other than arguing with Zany, because he's Zany. Do any of you accept we need more houses for young people or is it really your opinion that they would all go to illegal migrants? No one has said that. What has been said is you either build houses for those that are here in the here and now, which is what you seem to be advocating, or you build houses for young people and future immigrants, legal or otherwise.. The latter policy is unsustainable if maintained at current levels yet governments seem unable or unwilling to deal with the issue. So if we build house for the people here then one either has to stop any new arrivals being eligible to be housed in either private or social housing or stop immigration in its entirety. If neither are done then following a policy of building in the here and now will always be a problem stretching long years into the future. Policies have to be joined up. Plenty of people have said that or I wouldn't be arguing it. The rest of your post on immigration (Surprise surprise) seems to be looking for someone who wants to open our doors to Africa so you can repeat how bad that is. Unfortunately for you that person is not me. I want immigration drastically slowed or stopped for two reasons. 1, because I do feel our green spaces are being squeezed out of existence, in favour of building AND arable land. 2, Because I recognise public opinion on the subject and respect that. As usual in these conversations I seek solutions rather than just ranting about The government, the globalists, the left, the conspiracy. Many find this irritating as it requires them to look at facts rather than rhetoric such as your post above. To address your premise based on the idea that immigration (both legal and illegal) wont change. What's your solution? Do we just carry on not building enough houses so that the prices of those available take up such a large chunk of peoples income that it destroys the economy? Are you hoping to cause civil war by deliberately making things worse? Do we recognise the reason for immigration is financial and face the fact that with an aging population and longevity we will have to pay more money to government than we currently do? Or do we think cutting out rainbow crossings and diversity managers will fill the gap? Could we look at food sufficiency in a scientific way? Maybe grow vegetables in multi-storey buildings rather than put people in them. Plant fields with woods and lakes to help with climate change and give people the much vaunted contact with nature they need. Should we stop further research in keeping people alive ever longer and save the billions spent on keeping them alive and out of pain. I'm open to discuss any solutions, but frankly I'm bored shitless with the rhetoric. It goes without saying my preferred solution is to stop immigration, but that itself requires solutions to the issues it creates, rather than just bloody lefties, globalists, blah blah blah.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2024 9:53:41 GMT
You said houses were more expensive because of building costs when I said it was the price of land. You need to read what you said, not me. rising material costs are one of the reasons listed by the house building federation for the high cost of uk housing. you keep focusing on the price of land , which is of course one of the reasons why england has such high house prices. That applies though in many countries not just england , where land prices are high in desirable areas. you appear to be focusing on freeing up land to build upon. This seems to echo labours pre election idea of relaxing planning laws to build more houses , and has been said could be a recipe for disaster, with yet more poor quality new build housing built for example on flood plains. Although from the climate zealots perspective , this could be a good thing as they can then squeal about climate change. Average price in England for an acre of land is around £650,000 Average price in France for an acre of land is around £325,000 The price of building land is the biggest difference by far. I see no reason to expect the mistakes of the past to be repeated, especially with Labours proposal to open up the green belt for building. You might consider the idea that the reason so many houses were built of flood plains is because that's where the towns were (on rivers) and all building had to be in the town/village envelope because of the daft one size fits all greenbelt laws.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2024 9:54:31 GMT
Ethic cleansing, that's just weird. I'll leave you with your demons. It's not that weird at all, you just studiously ignore the ELEPHANT in the room. You are doing this so persistently it's starting to look deliberate Great you debate with him then. I'm interested in solution not soap boxes.
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Post by Orac on Nov 10, 2024 10:01:51 GMT
It's not that weird at all, you just studiously ignore the ELEPHANT in the room. You are doing this so persistently it's starting to look deliberate Great you debate with him then. I'm interested in solution not soap boxes. I do have a 'solution' to help the problem. 1) Stop pouring immigrants into the country. 2) Change the tax system to dis-incentive land speculation, stabilise the price of land and increase the earnings from productive activity.
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Post by sheepy on Nov 10, 2024 10:08:54 GMT
Great you debate with him then. I'm interested in solution not soap boxes. I do have a 'solution' to help the problem. 1) Stop pouring immigrants into the country. 2) Change the tax system to dis-incentive land speculation, stabilise the price of land and increase the earnings from productive activity. LOL he was interested when Starmer was on his soapbox.
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Post by thomas on Nov 10, 2024 10:11:10 GMT
rising material costs are one of the reasons listed by the house building federation for the high cost of uk housing. you keep focusing on the price of land , which is of course one of the reasons why england has such high house prices. That applies though in many countries not just england , where land prices are high in desirable areas. you appear to be focusing on freeing up land to build upon. This seems to echo labours pre election idea of relaxing planning laws to build more houses , and has been said could be a recipe for disaster, with yet more poor quality new build housing built for example on flood plains. Although from the climate zealots perspective , this could be a good thing as they can then squeal about climate change. Average price in England for an acre of land is around £650,000 Average price in France for an acre of land is around £325,000 The price of building land is the biggest difference by far. The dishonesty in your posts at times is breathtaking zany. Here , you poorly attempt to turn yet another discussion on its head regarding land prices between england and France , when I have already earlier qualified to you the size difference between your country and France. you are also being dishonest by waffling about land price , when I havent argued land price isnt a factor in house prices , or how big a factor this is , merely that rising material costs , which you dismissed , are also a factor according to house builders. You are waffling yet again for the sake of it. why? flood plain land is cheaper land , which then allows the developer to make even more profit when building houses . prove it please?
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Post by sheepy on Nov 10, 2024 10:12:47 GMT
The difference is I have never lied about it, whereas Starmer has you lying to yourself and everyone else as a byproduct.
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Post by thomas on Nov 10, 2024 10:19:32 GMT
I do have a 'solution' to help the problem. 1) Stop pouring immigrants into the country. 2) Change the tax system to dis-incentive land speculation, stabilise the price of land and increase the earnings from productive activity. LOL he was interested when Starmer was on his soapbox. during my lifetime , I dont think there is a single Labour Party solution that hasn't turned to shit or been championed from a soapbox. Need to raise taxes? hammer small business with ENIC. Need to save money? hammer the elderly with ending the WFA. Need to pour yet more billions in the NHS? Yet more brown and blair PFI. Need more housing? relax planning laws for yet more poor quality unaffordable housing. I mean the list is endless.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 10, 2024 10:19:51 GMT
No one has said that. What has been said is you either build houses for those that are here in the here and now, which is what you seem to be advocating, or you build houses for young people and future immigrants, legal or otherwise.. The latter policy is unsustainable if maintained at current levels yet governments seem unable or unwilling to deal with the issue. So if we build house for the people here then one either has to stop any new arrivals being eligible to be housed in either private or social housing or stop immigration in its entirety. If neither are done then following a policy of building in the here and now will always be a problem stretching long years into the future. Policies have to be joined up. Plenty of people have said that or I wouldn't be arguing it. The rest of your post on immigration (Surprise surprise) seems to be looking for someone who wants to open our doors to Africa so you can repeat how bad that is. Unfortunately for you that person is not me. I want immigration drastically slowed or stopped for two reasons. 1, because I do feel our green spaces are being squeezed out of existence, in favour of building AND arable land. 2, Because I recognise public opinion on the subject and respect that. As usual in these conversations I seek solutions rather than just ranting about The government, the globalists, the left, the conspiracy. Many find this irritating as it requires them to look at facts rather than rhetoric such as your post above. To address your premise based on the idea that immigration (both legal and illegal) wont change. What's your solution? Do we just carry on not building enough houses so that the prices of those available take up such a large chunk of peoples income that it destroys the economy? Are you hoping to cause civil war by deliberately making things worse? Do we recognise the reason for immigration is financial and face the fact that with an aging population and longevity we will have to pay more money to government than we currently do? Or do we think cutting out rainbow crossings and diversity managers will fill the gap? Could we look at food sufficiency in a scientific way? Maybe grow vegetables in multi-storey buildings rather than put people in them. Plant fields with woods and lakes to help with climate change and give people the much vaunted contact with nature they need. Should we stop further research in keeping people alive ever longer and save the billions spent on keeping them alive and out of pain. I'm open to discuss any solutions, but frankly I'm bored shitless with the rhetoric. It goes without saying my preferred solution is to stop immigration, but that itself requires solutions to the issues it creates, rather than just bloody lefties, globalists, blah blah blah. The point as ever is that relaxing planning rules will alleviate a symptom of the problem not solve the problem. You refer to immigration as a solution to a financial and social problem yet it clearly is only very short term and in the long run, exacerbates as opposes to solves the problem of the aging population. The stats are stark but quite explicit in the conclusions one is able to draw. An immigrant may provide cheap labour and available skills for a period of time but then he begets those who reside in immigrant communities second third and fourth generation. These communities by and large see a higher degree of economic inactivity and unemployment. In fact the old adage that immigrants come in to do the jobs British people will not do is more accurately immigrants come in to do the jobs immigrant communities will not do.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2024 10:23:13 GMT
Great you debate with him then. I'm interested in solution not soap boxes. I do have a 'solution' to help the problem. 1) Stop pouring immigrants into the country. 2) Change the tax system to dis-incentive land speculation, stabilise the price of land and increase the earnings from productive activity. Sigh. Its like asking someone how we stop traffic jams and being repeatedly told ban cars. The solution involves dealing with the results of stopping immigration as well as the obvious clarion calls.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2024 10:24:05 GMT
I do have a 'solution' to help the problem. 1) Stop pouring immigrants into the country. 2) Change the tax system to dis-incentive land speculation, stabilise the price of land and increase the earnings from productive activity. LOL he was interested when Starmer was on his soapbox. Yes, he made sense.
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Post by sheepy on Nov 10, 2024 10:25:14 GMT
LOL he was interested when Starmer was on his soapbox. Yes, he made sense. Not according to your post above he hasn't.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 10, 2024 10:26:25 GMT
The difference is I have never lied about it, whereas Starmer has you lying to yourself and everyone else as a byproduct. Yes blah blah Any solutions, By which I mean thought out ones. Anything beyond 'that wont work' or 'you're brain washed'?
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Post by Orac on Nov 10, 2024 10:26:59 GMT
I do have a 'solution' to help the problem. 1) Stop pouring immigrants into the country. 2) Change the tax system to dis-incentive land speculation, stabilise the price of land and increase the earnings from productive activity. Sigh. Its like asking someone how we stop traffic jams and being repeatedly told ban cars. The solution involves dealing with the results of stopping immigration as well as the obvious clarion calls. Please. You would only have a reasoned argument for immigration if we didn't have 'enough people'. The country is clearly over-crowded The public sector likes immigration because it makes their job easier (no skill, ideas or insight needed).
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