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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 21, 2022 0:23:04 GMT
There is a small Chinese car callee the funky cat, and for your £30 grand you get a little device that watches you. Should you die or fall to sleep at the wheel it will safely stop the car. If the Brits are too thick to figure out how to do this then you know who to call. There is some Chinese word apparently that when translated means "we will find a way". The Brits aught to learn the word as well. I was referring to the sort of situation that happenned near Moorgate a good few years back. Incidentally that automated train operating system had a rather fun flaw that sent trains out from the sidings where they were not in a radio zone directly onto the main lines where they were without any regard for other traffic or signals. Just one of the several quite fatal flaws I was quite happy to take the large daily fee I was being paid to uncover. The fact the automated operation systems haven’t caused a thousand Ladbroke Grove style fatalities is entirely thanks to the team I was part of and was totally ignored by the developers. I've seen some pictures of the control room of the underground and thought, oh hell. Our problem is we never modernise anything, but just keep patching it up. I mean what we must do is switch to 5G. The whole world will work with 5G as a universal protocol. It is designed with industrial control in mind and meets the spec. Your components could be plug and play. If we were smart enough to build them ourselves then we can market abroad to pay off development costs, or let someone else do it and buy their wares. Mass market equipment is reliable. Ford Escorts worked, Ferraris broke down! |
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 21, 2022 8:20:30 GMT
Baron, you seem to have quite spectacularly missed the point
You keep harking back to (predominantly Chinese) technology as our saviour
When the VAT man came to make his first (and only, as it turned out) inspection of my records, he took out his little book, and remarked ‘oh hell, your a code (whatever it was) software developer. I bet you’ve computerised your records without telling us and I’ll have to reschedule this ….
I cut him off
I proceeded to lay out twelve foolscap folders while telling him how my father, an IBM Engineer who before that worked for the Atomic Energy Authority after finishing his time at the Royal Signals and Radar Establishment, made a most handsome living more than adequate to fund the lifestyle he wanted for himself, his wife and his three boys from repairing and recovering other peoples lives from the utter shambles over dependence on utterly shambolic computer hardware caused for them, while not allowing so much as an electric typewriter in his study at home.
I then went on to explain to the twat how I had learned much from him, to the extent I now enjoyed a lifestyle and disposable income he would never have thought possible, and all off the back of the shambles made of other peoples lives by unbelievably ridiculous and unstable software, and for that reason, I said, in 1992, it will be a cold day in hell before I computerise my ledger, petty cash vouchers, invoices, statements, expenses …. And at each mention of one of the above I threw down another foolscap folder on the desk before him.
Now, I said, the coffee percolator is over there ….
And if you’ll excuse me I have another piece of shit hardware running unbelievably shit software someone has agreed to pay me a few thousand to fix so if you need to ask me anything I’ll be in the garage workshop …..
Fact is it’s people who have your outlook that made me the money I was able to accumulate.
Because behind every safety critical or safety related automated system is a fuckwit who overlooked something in the design.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 21, 2022 8:23:34 GMT
You can't prove something is true - but you can prove it's not true. And there's plenty of evidence to prove that poverty doesn't cause crime. For example recessions don't cause a rise in crime, yet they do increase poverty. And there is far less poverty now than there was 50 years ago - yet crime is far higher now than it was. As for evidence that CO2 causes global warming there is unequivocal evidence that CO2 causes warming when all other factors are eliminated. John Tyndall showed this with a simple experiment using a box and a light source. But it's never been demonstrated in the Earth's system because there are so many other factors that work to prevent warming - it's called buffering. And the models that are built on the assumption that CO2 causes warming patently don't work. So that proves that CO2 doesn't cause warming in the Earth's system. You keep moving your goal posts and I can't be bothered to keep realigning up the ball.  No I'm not. You're right that a theory can never be proved to be "true" - whatever that means - but it's good if a theory fits all known facts. When it doesn't it's obviously wrong. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 25, 2022 11:10:03 GMT
Baron, you seem to have quite spectacularly missed the point You keep harking back to (predominantly Chinese) technology as our saviour When the VAT man came to make his first (and only, as it turned out) inspection of my records, he took out his little book, and remarked ‘oh hell, your a code (whatever it was) software developer. I bet you’ve computerised your records without telling us and I’ll have to reschedule this …. I cut him off I proceeded to lay out twelve foolscap folders while telling him how my father, an IBM Engineer who before that worked for the Atomic Energy Authority after finishing his time at the Royal Signals and Radar Establishment, made a most handsome living more than adequate to fund the lifestyle he wanted for himself, his wife and his three boys from repairing and recovering other peoples lives from the utter shambles over dependence on utterly shambolic computer hardware caused for them, while not allowing so much as an electric typewriter in his study at home. I then went on to explain to the twat how I had learned much from him, to the extent I now enjoyed a lifestyle and disposable income he would never have thought possible, and all off the back of the shambles made of other peoples lives by unbelievably ridiculous and unstable software, and for that reason, I said, in 1992, it will be a cold day in hell before I computerise my ledger, petty cash vouchers, invoices, statements, expenses …. And at each mention of one of the above I threw down another foolscap folder on the desk before him. Now, I said, the coffee percolator is over there …. And if you’ll excuse me I have another piece of shit hardware running unbelievably shit software someone has agreed to pay me a few thousand to fix so if you need to ask me anything I’ll be in the garage workshop ….. Fact is it’s people who have your outlook that made me the money I was able to accumulate. Because behind every safety critical or safety related automated system is a fuckwit who overlooked something in the design. I'm saying use 5G because it is what the best railway system in the world uses and it works fine. Second point is pay people to deliver, not to fuck about trying to look cool. The tax cunt is not the most important thing. It is a railway system which works. No work no pay. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 25, 2022 11:23:56 GMT
You keep moving your goal posts and I can't be bothered to keep realigning up the ball. No I'm not. You're right that a theory can never be proved to be "true" - whatever that means - but it's good if a theory fits all known facts. When it doesn't it's obviously wrong. Speaking as a former scientist turned engineer, I was taught that it can’t BE a theory unless it DOES explain all known observations. Until then it is merely a hypothesis. Which sounds like nitpicking but isn’t. And yes, all it takes to demote a theory is one experiment too many. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 25, 2022 11:36:16 GMT
Baron, you seem to have quite spectacularly missed the point You keep harking back to (predominantly Chinese) technology as our saviour When the VAT man came to make his first (and only, as it turned out) inspection of my records, he took out his little book, and remarked ‘oh hell, your a code (whatever it was) software developer. I bet you’ve computerised your records without telling us and I’ll have to reschedule this …. I cut him off I proceeded to lay out twelve foolscap folders while telling him how my father, an IBM Engineer who before that worked for the Atomic Energy Authority after finishing his time at the Royal Signals and Radar Establishment, made a most handsome living more than adequate to fund the lifestyle he wanted for himself, his wife and his three boys from repairing and recovering other peoples lives from the utter shambles over dependence on utterly shambolic computer hardware caused for them, while not allowing so much as an electric typewriter in his study at home. I then went on to explain to the twat how I had learned much from him, to the extent I now enjoyed a lifestyle and disposable income he would never have thought possible, and all off the back of the shambles made of other peoples lives by unbelievably ridiculous and unstable software, and for that reason, I said, in 1992, it will be a cold day in hell before I computerise my ledger, petty cash vouchers, invoices, statements, expenses …. And at each mention of one of the above I threw down another foolscap folder on the desk before him. Now, I said, the coffee percolator is over there …. And if you’ll excuse me I have another piece of shit hardware running unbelievably shit software someone has agreed to pay me a few thousand to fix so if you need to ask me anything I’ll be in the garage workshop ….. Fact is it’s people who have your outlook that made me the money I was able to accumulate. Because behind every safety critical or safety related automated system is a fuckwit who overlooked something in the design. I'm saying use 5G because it is what the best railway system in the world uses and it works fine. Second point is pay people to deliver, not to fuck about trying to look cool. The tax cunt is not the most important thing. It is a railway system which works. No work no pay. 5G can be part of a safety critical system and 5G underpinning technologies have huge potential but IMHO 5G as you and I know it can't be the core of one where failure of the system to respond can be hazardous. Too many single point vulnerabilities. So I suggest your 'best railway system in the world' makes some use of 5G but its core safety aspects really don't. Which railway did you have in mind? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 25, 2022 11:43:13 GMT
I'm saying use 5G because it is what the best railway system in the world uses and it works fine. Second point is pay people to deliver, not to fuck about trying to look cool. The tax cunt is not the most important thing. It is a railway system which works. No work no pay. 5G can be part of a safety critical system and 5G underpinning technologies have huge potential but IMHO 5G as you and I know it can't be the core of one where failure of the system to respond can be hazardous. Too many single point vulnerabilities. So I suggest your 'best railway system in the world' makes some use of 5G but its core safety aspects really don't. Which railway did you have in mind? 5g actually specifies how likely a bit transmitted is incorrect. Off the top of my head I think it is one in 10^12. It's very high anyway, and is just more recent technology. Gone are the days of RS232. You know how these days you want a new peripheral for your computer it just switches on and self-configures. If you use a modern protocol like 5G it will hopefully work in this way, like let the computer do the thinking so no chance of human error. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 25, 2022 11:58:43 GMT
let the computer do the thinking so no chance of human error. For every disaster of biblical proportions caused by human error there is one caused by people sharing your view being given a free hand. The stupidity of suggesting this for real just beggars belief. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 25, 2022 13:24:13 GMT
let the computer do the thinking so no chance of human error. For every disaster of biblical proportions caused by human error there is one caused by people sharing your view being given a free hand. The stupidity of suggesting this for real just beggars belief. Well put it this way. I bought a new mouse which uses Bluetooth. The Bluetooth networking system is very complicated but it all worked perfectly. The reason is the code is used billions of times, so has had the best testing there is. Now what you do is you use as much of this heavily tested code as you can. Think of it as a black box where you say I want this data sent and it will arrive every time. Now back to trains. One thing we could do with is lidar. It's a complicated box of tricks, but if we have modular system approaches then that lidar subsystem will have already been tested on millions of cars, so we know that will work. Maybe the lidar unit comes with a high level 5G enabled interface. I hope this methodology makes some sense to you, even if I may not be describing it perfectly. It's the current thinking with 5G. You can string together thousands of 5G devices on a local network. You may see for simple comms it might be overkill but chips these days have tons of space on them for an overkill system but will work with any device. If you make billions of 5G IO chips they will be cheap. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 26, 2022 0:25:41 GMT
5G can be part of a safety critical system and 5G underpinning technologies have huge potential but IMHO 5G as you and I know it can't be the core of one where failure of the system to respond can be hazardous. Too many single point vulnerabilities. So I suggest your 'best railway system in the world' makes some use of 5G but its core safety aspects really don't. Which railway did you have in mind? 5g actually specifies how likely a bit transmitted is incorrect. Off the top of my head I think it is one in 10^12. It's very high anyway, and is just more recent technology. Gone are the days of RS232. You know how these days you want a new peripheral for your computer it just switches on and self-configures. If you use a modern protocol like 5G it will hopefully work in this way, like let the computer do the thinking so no chance of human error. Think outside that box. Think about the probability the bit won't be received at all And if you think that's unlikely: www.jammer4uk.com/product-category/5g-jammers |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 26, 2022 0:41:26 GMT
5g actually specifies how likely a bit transmitted is incorrect. Off the top of my head I think it is one in 10^12. It's very high anyway, and is just more recent technology. Gone are the days of RS232. You know how these days you want a new peripheral for your computer it just switches on and self-configures. If you use a modern protocol like 5G it will hopefully work in this way, like let the computer do the thinking so no chance of human error. Think outside that box. Think about the probability the bit won't be received at all And if you think that's unlikely: www.jammer4uk.com/product-category/5g-jammersWell we can't hold the development of the human race up for criminals trying to crash trains with jammers. Like we would never benefit from online banking if we all thought like that. I suggest we build in safety measures. For example we can use dual bands and another little technical trick is to use spread spectrum, because that has immunity. Other than that I'd get the units to triangulate the jam signal and get the man arrested whilst stopping affected trains. There is no single point of failure because if one network server went down the signal just gets re-routed like the internet packet system. It is destined to become a critical system for autonomous level five cars. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 26, 2022 0:54:56 GMT
So Baron you'd not be using 5G and then pretend it was 5G
As I said some of the underpinning technologies of 5G can be used in safety critical systems but not 5G per se
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 26, 2022 1:43:41 GMT
So Baron you'd not be using 5G and then pretend it was 5G As I said some of the underpinning technologies of 5G can be used in safety critical systems but not 5G per se The way it is with a network is you can separate out the layers. You have the physical layer which are either wires or radio links, then you have all the rest of the protocol, and it is this protocol you want to standardize such that every computer can talk as it pleases with any other computer just as any internet terminal knows HTTP + HTML. There are variations to the 5G standard, like I know Huawei use a dual-band system such that one band is high data rate unreliable transmission and the other is lower data rate and more reliable transmission, which is a natural tradeoff. In China they use the 5G system for their belt and road where it is used for many functions, including business & customs etc. The direction it seems to be going in is a lot of the computer intensive stuff is offloaded to a server farm which provides high reliability, better resource management so lower cost. They believe phones will become truly thin clients so they save battery life. The data rates and reliability of 5G in China is very good. The latency can be reduced to 1ms. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 26, 2022 12:24:54 GMT
Well you know what, I've designed and in other roles I've signed off safety critical systems and when it's other people's lives at risk, 'very good' was never acceptable as a standard. 'Proven beyond excellent with no single point vulnerabilities' would be closer to the mark. It's also effectively what's called up in system standards in the UK, EU and USA.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 29, 2022 8:39:13 GMT
No I'm not. You're right that a theory can never be proved to be "true" - whatever that means - but it's good if a theory fits all known facts. When it doesn't it's obviously wrong. Speaking as a former scientist turned engineer, I was taught that it can’t BE a theory unless it DOES explain all known observations. Until then it is merely a hypothesis. Which sounds like nitpicking but isn’t. And yes, all it takes to demote a theory is one experiment too many. A hypothesis is an assumption you make in order to come up with a theory. So Einstein came up with the hypothesis that the speed of light is constant in order to formulate his theory of relativity. It doesn't mean that the speed of light IS constant, but it's just an assumption made in order to develop the theory. If the theory "works" then the assumption is accepted (until the theory is proved wrong). I've always thought that it was a very strange hypothesis because it actually violates the theory of relativity, in that this theory states that velocity is meaningless without specifying a frame of reference - except that if a body is traveling at the speed of light you DON'T have to specify a frame of reference. It's travelling at the speed of light relative to any and all frames of reference.  Going back to global warming and CO2 the association between warming on Earth and CO2 concentration is actually a hypothesis not a theory. That's because the association is assumed in the models. It's in the form of a coefficient that says for every increase in CO2 concentration (in ppm) there will be a an x degree C rise in temperature. If the models work then that hypothesis is accepted. Unfortunately the models don't work so the hypothesis cannot be accepted. |
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No I'm not. You're right that a theory can never be proved to be "true" - whatever that means - but it's good if a theory fits all known facts. When it doesn't it's obviously wrong. 
