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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 16, 2022 13:51:30 GMT
I'm afraid I couldn't make much sense of your emotive smorgasbord of 'feelings' and didn't perceive anything within that merited further response.
Having read it again I suppose the remark about political exploitation of racism and hatred and that 'similar factors' are 'on the rise again' might have been what you have been on about. Assuming that to be the case can you elaborate on where you are perceiving this exploitation to exist, what form(s) it is taking and what exactly it is that you believe is on the rise.
Whatever the answer you do seem to have convinced yourself that if we fail to 'teach the newer generations' as a matter of urgency then it's simply a matter of time before the transports start rolling again to the East.
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Post by dappy on Dec 16, 2022 14:04:26 GMT
Of course you couldn't Dan......
Keep on dreaming of a white Christmas, mate.
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 16, 2022 14:09:28 GMT
No, I'm serious. Tell us why we need to be 'teaching the newer generations'. Are they especially vulnerable in some way to malevolent influences, in a way that we weren't at their age?
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Post by Orac on Dec 16, 2022 14:12:39 GMT
I'd like to see some 'horrors of socialism' memorials added
These would be monuments of the many tens of millions who perished in the 20c because halfwits with a personality disorders decided they wanted society to have 'a fresh start'.
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Post by dappy on Dec 16, 2022 14:30:28 GMT
Older generations tend to teach newer generations Dan - its how education has traditionally worked.
Some would argue that as people with personal experience of the war die off and as politicians - especially those on the right - appear to be increasingly returning to whipping up and exploiting fear and hatred of other peoples for political power, it is particularly relevant for those newer generations to be taught of the worst example in the last 100 years of where that can lead as well perhaps of more recent (albeit smaller scale) examples like Rwanda and Srebrenica.
Others of course would argue that that is not necessary or desirable but they would tend to be people with political views aligned with your own.
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Post by Orac on Dec 16, 2022 15:23:24 GMT
I don't see any indication at all of a Nazi movement of any significant size or influence in the western world
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 16, 2022 15:48:25 GMT
Dappy still isn't grasping the point that teaching the 'newer' generation about the Holocaust is a quite recent pedagogical innovation. It simply didn't happen until the Blairite era since which time it has achieved the unique distinction of becoming the only compulsory subject in the National Curriculum.
The process of facilitating its teaching is managed by the Holocaust Educational Trust, a Jewish charity that is 100% funded by the government. Amongst its accomplishments, as listed in its annual report for 2020/21:
· Number of teachers trained – 2,500
· Number of organisations and people reached through our Outreach programme – 22,500 individuals / 144 organisations
· Number of students and teachers who have taken part in our new Lessons from Auschwitz Online Project – 325
· Number of Holocaust survivors supported to deliver their testimony remotely – 41
· Number of young Ambassadors delivering initiatives across the country to ensure that the Holocaust is never forgotten – 100
None of this existed even twenty years ago. So the question remains on the table: Why here? Why now?
What has changed in the last twenty years that drives this project with such a sense of urgency? Dappy's arm-waving about right-wing exploitation and 'similar factors' being on the rise notwithstanding.
Although he hasn't come out and said it I'm beginning to suspect that what dappy means is that Britain is in a similar ferment of racial and social turmoil as Weimar Germany was in its terminal stages, which of course led to the Nazis being elected to office. Is that what you think is on the cards dappy if the nation does not re-double its efforts in Holocaust education as well as creating a publically-financed National Holocaust Memorial in a prominent location?
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 16, 2022 16:25:30 GMT
I don't see any indication at all of a Nazi movement of any significant size or influence in the western world The recent coup attempt in Germany? The group is said to have shared 'Nazi ideas'. I suppose it can't be said to have been of any 'significant size or influence', though some people seem to think they represented a silent disenfranchised majority. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 16, 2022 16:29:17 GMT
Dappy still isn't grasping the point that teaching the 'newer' generation about the Holocaust is a quite recent pedagogical innovation. It simply didn't happen until the Blairite era since which time it has achieved the unique distinction of becoming the only compulsory subject in the National Curriculum. The process of facilitating its teaching is managed by the Holocaust Educational Trust, a Jewish charity that is 100% funded by the government. Amongst its accomplishments, as listed in its annual report for 2020/21: · Number of teachers trained – 2,500 · Number of organisations and people reached through our Outreach programme – 22,500 individuals / 144 organisations · Number of students and teachers who have taken part in our new Lessons from Auschwitz Online Project – 325 · Number of Holocaust survivors supported to deliver their testimony remotely – 41 · Number of young Ambassadors delivering initiatives across the country to ensure that the Holocaust is never forgotten – 100 None of this existed even twenty years ago. So the question remains on the table: Why here? Why now? What has changed in the last twenty years that drives this project with such a sense of urgency? Dappy's arm-waving about right-wing exploitation and 'similar factors' being on the rise notwithstanding. Although he hasn't come out and said it I'm beginning to suspect that what dappy means is that Britain is in a similar ferment of racial and social turmoil as Weimar Germany was in its terminal stages, which of course led to the Nazis being elected to office. Is that what you think is on the cards dappy if the nation does not re-double its efforts in Holocaust education as well as creating a publically-financed National Holocaust Memorial in a prominent location? What do you think is behind it, Danny? A zionist plot? |
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Post by dappy on Dec 16, 2022 16:44:17 GMT
However many times, Dan asks the same question, it has already ben answered for him - perhaps not the answer he would like but the answer nonetheless. I think we can all work out very easily why Dan would like knowledge of the holocaust and its lessons for today to be suppressed.
I think we have all learned to give Dan's straw man suspicions the lack of attention they deserve.
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Post by Montegriffo on Dec 16, 2022 17:08:27 GMT
I was taught about the holocaust in school including the gays, gypsies and political dissenters who ended up in the camps.
I was also taught about the genocide of native Americans, the Cultural Revolution in China and Stalin's many crimes.
I was never taught about the Irish potato famine though. Maybe there should be more memorials to it.
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Post by Orac on Dec 16, 2022 17:10:07 GMT
The recent coup attempt in Germany? The group is said to have shared 'Nazi ideas'. You mean the fifty odd people recently arrested because they constructed a madcap plan that couldn't possibly have worked? Never has someone who needs lemonade, been so desperately short of lemons. though some people seem to think they represented a silent disenfranchised majority. Perhaps in some limited senses they did. I think there is a significant perception that this iteration of democracy is pretty well in its last flailing days. As Tor expressed, there may be a sympathy with, or understanding of, with the notion of plotting a coup. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 16, 2022 17:14:10 GMT
The recent coup attempt in Germany? The group is said to have shared 'Nazi ideas'. You mean the fifty odd people recently arrested because they constructed a madcap plan that couldn't possibly have worked? Never has someone who needs lemonade, been so desperately short of lemons. though some people seem to think they represented a silent disenfranchised majority. Perhaps in some limited senses they did. I think there is a significant perception that this iteration of democracy is pretty well in its last flailing days. As Tor expressed, there may be a sympathy with, or understanding of, with the notion of plotting a coup. Don't see it myself. If anything, populism seems to have had its day. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 16, 2022 17:20:17 GMT
I read an article some time ago (at least 3 or 4 months ago). It discussed the results of polls taken on national views of referendums. Understandably, I suppose, referendums were least popular in the UK, with the public being very decidedly against them (I don't remember the exact percentage, but it was very significant). Referendums are at the heart of populism. Populism is obviously still a thing in Italy and Hungary, but its influence is fading elsewhere.
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Post by Orac on Dec 16, 2022 17:21:57 GMT
Don't see it myself. If anything, populism seems to have had its day. So, now back to Dan's question. |
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