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Post by Pacifico on Aug 28, 2024 6:48:15 GMT
Well take this £20 Billion 'black hole' - £9 Billion of that is down to Starmers above inflation, unfunded, increase in Pubic \Sector salaries. Anyway any growth is going to be minuscule as Rachel Reeves is currently scaring off investment with her refusal to rule out increases in Capital Gains Tax. You cannot tax your way to higher growth. Public sector workers would have got a pay increase of some kind, even if it was another below inflation increase as awarded by the Conservatives, so this assertion is a bit of a red herring. The Chancellor is not aiming to encourage growth by increasing taxes, she will increase taxes in order to plug the huge gaps in departmental funding shortfalls. The UK rate of CGT and Corporation Tax is low and there is room for increase without damaging the economy You could make pay rises dependent on reform in work practices and increased productivity - this reduces the cost of those increases (which was actually the position of the previous Topry Government). However Labour chose not to do that and simply handed out money without conditions - this is what led to the fantasy 'black hole' not anything the Tories did. As for the nonsense about increasing CGT and CT without having any impact on investment and thus growth - that is financially illiterate. companies are already putting off or cancelling investments due to the possibility of increased taxes, exactly the opposite of what the country needs.
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Post by witchfinder on Aug 28, 2024 10:06:02 GMT
Public sector workers would have got a pay increase of some kind, even if it was another below inflation increase as awarded by the Conservatives, so this assertion is a bit of a red herring. The Chancellor is not aiming to encourage growth by increasing taxes, she will increase taxes in order to plug the huge gaps in departmental funding shortfalls. The UK rate of CGT and Corporation Tax is low and there is room for increase without damaging the economy You could make pay rises dependent on reform in work practices and increased productivity - this reduces the cost of those increases (which was actually the position of the previous Topry Government). However Labour chose not to do that and simply handed out money without conditions - this is what led to the fantasy 'black hole' not anything the Tories did. As for the nonsense about increasing CGT and CT without having any impact on investment and thus growth - that is financially illiterate. companies are already putting off or cancelling investments due to the possibility of increased taxes, exactly the opposite of what the country needs. Do you not think it is the case that all workers / employees deserve their wages to be kept up to the level on which they took on that job, without been constantly asked every year to give something in return for a reasonable pay increase in line with inflation. ? Compared to 14 years ago, all NHS staff are worse off in Real Terms, their level of pay went down, a major reason for staff shortages and recruitment problems. The junior doctors were never going to give in unless the government offered some kind of compensation for years of falling pay levels ( pay restoration ), and the constant strikes were not only affecting waiting lists and waiting times, but they affected the wider economy too. Since 2011 doctors and nurses have all had their terms and conditions altered, they also saw us through the worst medical emergency since the First World War, its time they were given a fair reward WITHOUT conditions.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 28, 2024 10:48:17 GMT
You should try working in the private sector - there you get a payrise if the company can afford it, not because it's 'fair'.
A lot of people worked hard though the pandemic - there was nothing particularly special about doctors and nurses. The fact is that productivity in the public sector (unlike the private sector) has fallen, so reform and chnages in working practices are desperately needed to ensure that the taxpayer gets value for money.
In fact the public sector workforce had a pretty easy pandemic - they didnt lose any money or were at risk of losing their jobs. Unlike hundreds of thousands in the private sector.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 28, 2024 12:35:30 GMT
I remember an HCA , during the COVID epidemic pointing out that NHS workers are lucky because they are all pretty much fully employed. Whereas just about everyone working in Southend airport was not.
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Post by witchfinder on Aug 28, 2024 12:53:25 GMT
I believe its straight forward, you either give NHS workers a fair and reasonable pay rise or face more problems with staff shortages and recruitment problems.
I am of the opinion that most people want our NHS to be back to how it was before David Cameron became Prime Minister, working and functioning properly, with relatively low waiting lists, and where you did not worry about calling an ambulance or suffer because you cannot get a GP appointment for 2 weeks.
Most people want to see the NHS repaired, and that starts with implementing policies designed to help staff recruitment and retention. THey fully deserve the recent pay deal, and we are all going to be better off for it.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 28, 2024 14:35:04 GMT
The NHS has had massive increases in funding with no improvement in performance (in many cases it is performing worse). I'd like some kind of assurance that throwing even more vast amounts at it is going to lead to some improvement - if they are not willing to reform working practices then it does not bode well for any improvement.
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Post by steppenwolf on Aug 29, 2024 6:45:46 GMT
You could make pay rises dependent on reform in work practices and increased productivity - this reduces the cost of those increases (which was actually the position of the previous Topry Government). However Labour chose not to do that and simply handed out money without conditions - this is what led to the fantasy 'black hole' not anything the Tories did. As for the nonsense about increasing CGT and CT without having any impact on investment and thus growth - that is financially illiterate. companies are already putting off or cancelling investments due to the possibility of increased taxes, exactly the opposite of what the country needs. Do you not think it is the case that all workers / employees deserve their wages to be kept up to the level on which they took on that job, without been constantly asked every year to give something in return for a reasonable pay increase in line with inflation. ? Compared to 14 years ago, all NHS staff are worse off in Real Terms, their level of pay went down, a major reason for staff shortages and recruitment problems. The junior doctors were never going to give in unless the government offered some kind of compensation for years of falling pay levels ( pay restoration ), and the constant strikes were not only affecting waiting lists and waiting times, but they affected the wider economy too. Since 2011 doctors and nurses have all had their terms and conditions altered, they also saw us through the worst medical emergency since the First World War, its time they were given a fair reward WITHOUT conditions. There's a thing called the Public Pay Review Body (PRB) that independently reviews what pay rise (if any) people in the public sector should get. There's no guarantee that their pay will be maintained on any level. What they do is attempt to make sure that public sector pay isn't distorting the market and making it impossible for the private sector to employ people at a viable wage. Unfortunately the various unions in the public sector have taken to just striking if they don't get what they want. The fact is that the public sector are generally reasonably well paid when you take into account all the factors - such as pension provision and job security which are very good in the public sector. In fact the cost of building up their pension "pot" to provide the type of defined benefit income they usually have is roughly equivalent to their paying no income tax whatsoever. This is something that the unions never take into account, but over the years the cost of providing a decent pension has rocketed. To provide an average income at 65 you need over a million pounds now. And not many people save that kind of money.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 1, 2024 17:52:00 GMT
what started in Wales is now coming to the rest of the UK.. be afraid..
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Post by Totheleft on Sept 1, 2024 19:28:15 GMT
what started in Wales is now coming to the rest of the UK.. be afraid.. Really UK business confidence remained at an almost nine-year high in August, a closely-watched survey has suggested, in a positive sign for the country’s economic prospects. Lloyds Bank’s Business Barometer put overall business confidence at 50 per cent this month, unchanged from July and the highest level since November 2015. The reading was well above the long-term average of 29 per cent, which it has remained above for the last 15 months. The survey suggested that positive sentiment among firms about their output expectations was broadly steady. Trading prospects ticked down two points from July to 54 per cent, although this figure is still the second-highest recorded so far this year. Output expectations for each sector remained at or close to three-year highs. Construction experienced the biggest increase with a 14-point jump to 58 per cent. Meanwhile, manufacturing dropped two points to 58 per cent. Retail and services fell seven and three points respectively, to 53 per cent. Businesses’ optimism about the economy as a whole rose two points to 47 per cent, continuing the upward trend recorded throughout 2024. “As in July, we’ve seen a particularly strong outcome for business confidence,” said Hann-Ju Ho, a senior economist at Lloyds. “Official GDP data for the first half of this year was encouraging and the survey results indicate that solid economic performance will likely continue as we move into the second half of the year.” Latest figures from the Office for National Statistics show the UK economy grew 0.6 per cent in the second quarter of the 2024, continuing its strong rebound from last year’s shallow recession. Falling inflation also gave the Bank of England confidence to cut interest rates for the first time since March 2020 at the start of this month. Lloyds’ survey suggested good news on inflation. Firms’ price expectations decreased for the second time in three months, with 58 per cent planning to raise prices in the next year – down from 60 per cent in July.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 1, 2024 21:46:36 GMT
'Latest figures from the Office for National Statistics show the UK economy grew 0.6 per cent in the second quarter of the 2024, continuing its strong rebound from last year’s shallow recession.'
Er - you do realise that the Tories were in power then?..
Just checking.
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Post by Bentley on Sept 1, 2024 21:58:42 GMT
'Latest figures from the Office for National Statistics show the UK economy grew 0.6 per cent in the second quarter of the 2024, continuing its strong rebound from last year’s shallow recession.'Er - you do realise that the Tories were in power then?.. Just checking. lol.
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Post by Totheleft on Sept 2, 2024 0:48:55 GMT
'Latest figures from the Office for National Statistics show the UK economy grew 0.6 per cent in the second quarter of the 2024, continuing its strong rebound from last year’s shallow recession.'Er - you do realise that the Tories were in power then?.. Just checking. Er you do realise UK business confidence remained at an almost nine-year high in August, a closely-watched survey has suggested, in a positive sign for the country’s economic prospects. Lloyds Bank’s Business Barometer put overall business confidence at 50 per cent this month, unchanged from July and the highest level since November 2015. The conservatives weren't in power then Just checking
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 2, 2024 6:56:54 GMT
'Latest figures from the Office for National Statistics show the UK economy grew 0.6 per cent in the second quarter of the 2024, continuing its strong rebound from last year’s shallow recession.'Er - you do realise that the Tories were in power then?.. Just checking. Er you do realise UK business confidence remained at an almost nine-year high in August, a closely-watched survey has suggested, in a positive sign for the country’s economic prospects. Lloyds Bank’s Business Barometer put overall business confidence at 50 per cent this month, unchanged from July and the highest level since November 2015. The conservatives weren't in power then Just checking Ah - an opinion poll. Lets just wait and see what actually happens in the real economy rather than putting out the bunting over an opinion poll..
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Post by Vinny on Sept 2, 2024 9:13:00 GMT
Public sector workers are not generators of tax but costs to the taxpayers. They do not pay for themselves and too many people work in the public sector. We need to grow the private sector and we cannot do that by strangling it.
The private sector creates the tax revenues the public sector spends. Public sector staff may repay some of their wages as tax but it isn't fresh tax, it is recycled tax.
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Post by piglet on Sept 2, 2024 9:37:38 GMT
Communists, Labour etc dont get this fact, that their wages, the public sector, comes from business. I am shocked at how labour say that growth is needed, what Reeves is saying is that business needs to grow, that only yesterday when Corbyn was in charge, Labour has been , and has been historically anti business.
Even now i wonder if thats a lie.
How can anybody be anti business, you would have to be an idiot. Labour wants to control the means of wealth creation, and in so doing, destroy it.
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