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Post by Bentley on Aug 8, 2024 9:27:05 GMT
He has linked class identity to national identity . He reckons both are parallel situations. He thinks that you can still be working class even if you become a millionaire . Which means , of course, that a Rwandan migrant is always a Rwandan migrant even if they have a UK passport . In other words he dug a trap for himself and fell into it . cheers Bentley . as I said isnt class , if the concept still exists among the majority , something that is constantly in a state of change while national identity is fixed? For example in my youth , I was sometimes classed as an underclass and working class , now I dont regard myself as either. doesn't class depend as you say on your circumstances , while national identity never changes? what does it matter though what class this Rwandan welshman , was or saw himself? im not getting how it links to the wider debate , except as another diversion from hornet? HH came down on the side of TTL who insisted that his MILLIONAIRE sister ( yeah I know ) was working class . Im happy to concede that a working class person who was promoted to a salary position could still identify as working class but the further you move from a wage earner to a high salary position ( up to millionaire) then the further you move from being a member of the ‘ working class ‘ or the the term becomes meaningless . HH supported a dud and is stuck with it . |
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Post by johnofgwent on Aug 8, 2024 9:28:15 GMT
Also indefensible. Anything to say about Anderson? Yeah. The day labour throw Phillips out of the party for her statements regarding Moslem thugs, AND throw out every Councillor and stood and did fuck all while Asians raped under age girls in care, THEN I will criticise Anderson. Not before. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 8, 2024 9:28:50 GMT
So you're denying working class people their identity? no im saying class , if it still exists as a concept , is personal , and not up to you to label. like national identity. What aren't you getting? So it's not up to us to tell other people what their class or national identity is? |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 8, 2024 9:30:48 GMT
Not winning the lottery perhaps, but from personal experience I will always consider myself working class and always have done regardless of my current circumstances. It's a culture I was brought up in, a mindset that partly shapes how I view the world. thats up to you. what you cant do is label other people with a class or national identity without their consent. Class is meaningless to me , and when I was thought of as an underclass or working class kid , I did my best to drag myself out of it. being Scottish is a privilege, class is an inconvenience , and largely meaningless in this day and age. for me I saw class as a ball and chain , and certainly didnt shape how I view the world. "what you cant do is label other people with a class or national identity" So it would be wrong to label someone of say Nigerian parentage who identifies as British as Nigerian? I completely agree. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 8, 2024 9:30:51 GMT
Eh? I understand the far-left support Hamas terrorists who murder innocent Jewish children, but I doubt it's a mutual love affair.
After all, "they reap what they sow" was the first thing the vocal Left said as those actual terrorist attacks were happening, and were happening in the name of racism and ultra-nationalism. Here we go again, the twisting of the truth, or is it just plain damn lies ? I am personally "of the Left" but certainly not far Left I do not know of anyone of the Left, including the far Left who supports Hamas terrorists, and I certainly dont. However I will always stand by the opinion that the the Israeli's "reap what they sow" The Israelis have without any shadow of doubt, instilled hatred and created militants within the Palestinian people, they (The Israeli's) have stolen land, continue to steal land, wont negotiate, refuse to give back land which is not theirs, they intimidate, harass and murder Palestinians on their own land, they steal property and homes. The Israeli's have in effect, stuck a stick into a Hornets nest and stirred it up, and when they get stung they then complain. The Israelis ARE terrorists, just as much terrorists as the people who murdered 1000 innocent Israelis, there is no difference, but idiots cant see it. To my recall they gave back Gaza wholesale, removed illegal settlers and passed over control of the area to the Palestinian authority. That is hardly the actions of a terrorist government intent on domination of all the lands. What they got in return was Hamas control of Gaza and daily rocket attacks. It is not an easy good/bad it is far more complicated and we can all go one step back to show injustice. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 8, 2024 9:31:14 GMT
Also indefensible. Anything to say about Anderson? Yeah. The day labour throw Phillips out of the party for her statements regarding Moslem thugs, AND throw out every Councillor and stood and did fuck all while Asians raped under age girls in care, THEN I will criticise Anderson. Not before. Two wrongs make a right? |
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2024 9:32:33 GMT
no im saying class , if it still exists as a concept , is personal , and not up to you to label. like national identity. What aren't you getting? So it's not up to us to tell other people what their class or national identity is? while we all do it for the purposes of debate, which I get , at the end of the day its a personal concept. we cant possibly know what this guy who stabbed those wee lassies saw himself as in terms of class or national id. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2024 9:33:24 GMT
thats up to you. what you cant do is label other people with a class or national identity without their consent. Class is meaningless to me , and when I was thought of as an underclass or working class kid , I did my best to drag myself out of it. being Scottish is a privilege, class is an inconvenience , and largely meaningless in this day and age. for me I saw class as a ball and chain , and certainly didnt shape how I view the world. "what you cant do is label other people with a class or national identity" So it would be wrong to label someone of say Nigerian parentage who identifies as British as Nigerian? I completely agree. can you point out on this forum where I have done that? if you cant , take it up with the person who said it , not me , and stop diverting our debate with irrelevant tripe. |
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Post by Orac on Aug 8, 2024 9:38:28 GMT
Oh is that right ? ... well from where I am sitting at 10 am Thursday morning ( the morning after the night before ), there appears to be a VERY stark contrast between the opposers of far right thugs and rioters and those who wanted to show the better side of Britain. Why does the better side of Britain involve much flying of the Palestinian flag? that's quite a good question |
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Post by ratcliff on Aug 8, 2024 9:42:42 GMT
I see the support Palestinian mob partially destroyed a factory this morning and managed to injure a couple of police officers and intimidate staff. Would you recommend sitting down with them and having a chat about their feelings? Seems that the police book ''style of policing '' wanted by protesters' community leaders in advance of protests Sky News covered a counter-protest in Birmingham by masked men who had initially gathered outside a mosque and local Islamic Centre in the Bordesley Green area. Their reporter asked the officer why there had been such a “low-key police presence” when “an awful lot of people [were] armed with various weapons” (including a man wearing a balaclava and clutching a knife, who followed the Sky News crew after they’d finished broadcasting).
The officer’s reply? Apparently, the police had had “conversations” beforehand with “community leaders” in order to “understand the style of policing we needed to deliver”, and “our policing response” had been “commensurate” with that. The officer added that the “communities” were “trying to make sure that [the counter-protest] was policed within themselves as well”.
www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2024/08/08/keir-starmer-elon-musk-two-tier-far-right-riots/
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Post by Rebirth on Aug 8, 2024 9:43:18 GMT
Eh? I understand the far-left support Hamas terrorists who murder innocent Jewish children, but I doubt it's a mutual love affair.
After all, "they reap what they sow" was the first thing the vocal Left said as those actual terrorist attacks were happening, and were happening in the name of racism and ultra-nationalism. Here we go again, the twisting of the truth, or is it just plain damn lies ? I am personally "of the Left" but certainly not far Left I do not know of anyone of the Left, including the far Left who supports Hamas terrorists, and I certainly dont. However I will always stand by the opinion that the the Israeli's "reap what they sow" The Israelis have without any shadow of doubt, instilled hatred and created militants within the Palestinian people, they (The Israeli's) have stolen land, continue to steal land, wont negotiate, refuse to give back land which is not theirs, they intimidate, harass and murder Palestinians on their own land, they steal property and homes. The Israeli's have in effect, stuck a stick into a Hornets nest and stirred it up, and when they get stung they then complain. The Israelis ARE terrorists, just as much terrorists as the people who murdered 1000 innocent Israelis, there is no difference, but idiots cant see it. I haven't told any lies and I don't care about your rabid islamofascist nationalism. I just pointed out that the Left on here are sympathetic toward actual terrorism that took innocent lives as it happens, whilst they also try and smear the British people over a minor riot. Nobody on the left gave a fuck when Romanians were rioting and the police did nothing. Also, claiming that Israelis are terrorists is just typical Hamas bullshit. Your post is a lot like somebody supporting everything Putin has done whilst also trying to distance themselves from him. Only a total retard would buy it.
The Labour party is 100% responsible for all rioting.
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 8, 2024 9:45:07 GMT
"what you cant do is label other people with a class or national identity" So it would be wrong to label someone of say Nigerian parentage who identifies as British as Nigerian? I completely agree. can you point out on this forum where I have done that? if you cant , take it up with the person who said it , not me , and stop diverting our debate with irrelevant tripe. The last post on page 13 of this thread you said: "what you cant do is label other people with a class or national identity without their consent." |
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2024 9:48:11 GMT
can you point out on this forum where I have done that? if you cant , take it up with the person who said it , not me , and stop diverting our debate with irrelevant tripe. The last post on page 13 of this thread you said: "what you cant do is label other people with a class or national identity without their consent." whats that to do with the discussion ? my position has been consistent in terms of national identity on this and any other thread. Where did I label a black British guy , knowing he saw himself as British as a Nigerian? Can you show me? if you cant , we can put it in the diversion bin , yet again as irrelevant tripe. You and your ilk on the other hand are labelling a black guy who stabbed wee lassies as "welsh".................. |
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Post by Bentley on Aug 8, 2024 9:48:43 GMT
Would you recommend sitting down with them and having a chat about their feelings? Seems that the police book ''style of policing '' wanted by protesters' community leaders in advance of protests Sky News covered a counter-protest in Birmingham by masked men who had initially gathered outside a mosque and local Islamic Centre in the Bordesley Green area. Their reporter asked the officer why there had been such a “low-key police presence” when “an awful lot of people [were] armed with various weapons” (including a man wearing a balaclava and clutching a knife, who followed the Sky News crew after they’d finished broadcasting).
The officer’s reply? Apparently, the police had had “conversations” beforehand with “community leaders” in order to “understand the style of policing we needed to deliver”, and “our policing response” had been “commensurate” with that. The officer added that the “communities” were “trying to make sure that [the counter-protest] was policed within themselves as well”.
www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2024/08/08/keir-starmer-elon-musk-two-tier-far-right-riots/
Two tier policing in action . |
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Post by witchfinder on Aug 8, 2024 9:53:33 GMT
Here we go again, the twisting of the truth, or is it just plain damn lies ? I am personally "of the Left" but certainly not far Left I do not know of anyone of the Left, including the far Left who supports Hamas terrorists, and I certainly dont. However I will always stand by the opinion that the the Israeli's "reap what they sow" The Israelis have without any shadow of doubt, instilled hatred and created militants within the Palestinian people, they (The Israeli's) have stolen land, continue to steal land, wont negotiate, refuse to give back land which is not theirs, they intimidate, harass and murder Palestinians on their own land, they steal property and homes. The Israeli's have in effect, stuck a stick into a Hornets nest and stirred it up, and when they get stung they then complain. The Israelis ARE terrorists, just as much terrorists as the people who murdered 1000 innocent Israelis, there is no difference, but idiots cant see it. I haven't told any lies and I don't care about your rabid islamofascist nationalism. I just pointed out that the Left on here are sympathetic toward actual terrorism that took innocent lives as it happens, whilst they also try and smear the British people over a minor riot. Nobody on the left gave a fuck when Romanians were rioting and the police did nothing. Also, claiming that Israelis are terrorists is just typical Hamas bullshit. Your post is a lot like somebody supporting everything Putin has done whilst also trying to distance themselves from him. Only a total retard would buy it.
The Labour party is 100% responsible for all rioting.
Sorry, but with opinions such as yours, and the assertion that the rioting over the past week is all the fault of The Labour Party, its not worth debating with you, because your just plain and simply nuts. |
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