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Post by buccaneer on Aug 8, 2024 8:40:32 GMT
no. You dont understand national identity do you? you are conflating national identity , with the right to a piece of paper called a travel document. National identity is formed from family. , environment , ancestry , culture and how you are brought up and interact with those around you. It's a mindset. The Southport killer may or may not have seen himself as British welsh or English or whatever. You dont know. I dont know. National identity has been around far longer than passports and civil servants , and didnt need either to thrive and survive. Well said.. It's a way of tessellating with other humans that is learned in childhood. If other humans have a significantly different pattern, you can't tessellate (ie form society) with them. This is one reason i feel that mass immigration is a deliberate, calculated assault on one society in particular Mandelson did say he wanted to "rub the right's noses in diversity". |
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2024 8:43:45 GMT
That's what started that conversation. im in a sub conversation with to the left , and im helpfully explaining to him the difference between national identity and a travel document. If you want to waffle on about class , crack on with who wants to discuss it with you. Im Scottish. Thats a class in itself......... |
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2024 8:45:11 GMT
if the majority of the public do not want mass uncontrolled immigration , then what is the intellectual and moral process to stop it? How do they go about it? 80% of the electorate didnt vote for labour , they got a majority labour government. When people are disenfranchised at the ballot box , this is the result. over to you? Do we have uncontrolled immigration? you are arguing semantics again. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 8, 2024 8:45:41 GMT
"National identity is formed from family. , environment , ancestry , culture and how you are brought up and interact with those around you. It's a mindset." And can't the exact same thing be said about class identity? If ( according to you) class identity is the same as national identity and class identity stays with the individual no matter what the situation then the second generation Rwandan migrant that butchered 3 little white girls is Rwandan. You have been arguing against this over several threads but now it seems you agree with the far right rioters . No, because one's class and national identity isn't necessarily the same as your parents. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 8, 2024 8:46:26 GMT
Do we have uncontrolled immigration? you are arguing semantics again. A simple "no" would have sufficed. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2024 8:47:52 GMT
you are arguing semantics again. A simple "no" would have sufficed. try too much immigration and take it from there...... |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 8, 2024 8:51:37 GMT
A simple "no" would have sufficed. try too much immigration and take it from there...... Ok, I agree that numbers are too high and I suspect but can't prove that the simple truth that no political party including Reform will tell you is that we cannot significantly reduce net migration without taking a serious hit to our standard of living. Whether I'm right or wrong there are legal means for people to express their discontent. |
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Post by Bentley on Aug 8, 2024 8:54:10 GMT
If ( according to you) class identity is the same as national identity and class identity stays with the individual no matter what the situation then the second generation Rwandan migrant that butchered 3 little white girls is Rwandan. You have been arguing against this over several threads but now it seems you agree with the far right rioters . No, because one's class and national identity isn't necessarily the same as your parents. I see .So a second generation Nigerian migrant has no real Nigerian identity ? Tell that to Anthony Joshua . You swing from one side to the other like a pendulum. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2024 8:56:23 GMT
If ( according to you) class identity is the same as national identity and class identity stays with the individual no matter what the situation then the second generation Rwandan migrant that butchered 3 little white girls is Rwandan. You have been arguing against this over several threads but now it seems you agree with the far right rioters . No, because one's class and national identity isn't necessarily the same as your parents. what is it you are waffling about class identity for? Isnt the argument from lefties since this guy stabbed these wee lassies about national identity , and the overall discussion about whether he was Rwandan , British welsh or whatever? The class issue , is irrelevant to this debate no? Is class today even a discussion more widely? to me it is becoming a more and more outdated concept in the modern world. I would argue your national identity , which is a mindset , is largely fixed , while your concept of class , if it existed , can change in terms of what class you are. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 8, 2024 8:56:26 GMT
No, because one's class and national identity isn't necessarily the same as your parents. I see .So a second generation Nigerian migrant has no real Nigerian identity ? Tell that to Anthony Joshua . You swing from one side to the other like a pendulum. Exactly, you can take the Nigerian out of Nigeria, but you can't take the Nigeria out of a Nigerian. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 8, 2024 8:59:50 GMT
No, because one's class and national identity isn't necessarily the same as your parents. I see .So a second generation Nigerian migrant has no real Nigerian identity ? Tell that to Anthony Joshua . You swing from one side to the other like a pendulum. Anthony Joshua the British boxer? |
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Post by buccaneer on Aug 8, 2024 9:02:21 GMT
One Lawyer had his business registered at this 'grandmother's' address, now the family are petrified for her ... WTF would he register a business like that at his grandmothers address, probably like the rest of them he'll be using multiple addresses claiming tax payers money representing these illegals, how you know this is all down to Labour because it's got the Human Rights Lawyer's fingerprints all over it ...... Keir Starmer .... the grandmaster of draining tax payer money representing foreign criminals from being deported, Starmer is a filthy dirty scumbag who's enabling criminals to drain the British tax payers. Exactly. Why use multiple addresses if your business is legit?
Nah, they need to be out in the open.
It's almost like their job is illegitimate isn't it? Wanting to hide in such a way. |
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Post by Bentley on Aug 8, 2024 9:03:30 GMT
No, because one's class and national identity isn't necessarily the same as your parents. what is it you are waffling about class identity for? Isnt the argument from lefties since this guy stabbed these wee lassies about national identity , and the overall discussion about whether he was Rwandan , British welsh or whatever? The class issue , is irrelevant to this debate no? Is class today even a discussion more widely? to me it is becoming a more and more outdated concept in the modern world. I would argue your national identity , which is a mindset , is largely fixed , while your concept of class , if it existed , can change in terms of what class you are. He has linked class identity to national identity . He reckons both are parallel situations. He thinks that you can still be working class even if you become a millionaire . Which means , of course, that a Rwandan migrant is always a Rwandan migrant even if they have a UK passport . In other words he dug a trap for himself and fell into it . |
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Post by Bentley on Aug 8, 2024 9:04:39 GMT
I see .So a second generation Nigerian migrant has no real Nigerian identity ? Tell that to Anthony Joshua . You swing from one side to the other like a pendulum. Anthony Joshua the British boxer? Yes the one who is proud of his Nigerian identity. According to you he doesn’t have one. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 8, 2024 9:06:27 GMT
what is it you are waffling about class identity for? Isnt the argument from lefties since this guy stabbed these wee lassies about national identity , and the overall discussion about whether he was Rwandan , British welsh or whatever? The class issue , is irrelevant to this debate no? Is class today even a discussion more widely? to me it is becoming a more and more outdated concept in the modern world. I would argue your national identity , which is a mindset , is largely fixed , while your concept of class , if it existed , can change in terms of what class you are. He has linked class identity to national identity . He reckons both are parallel situations. He thinks that you can still be working class even if you become a millionaire . Which means , of course, that a Rwandan migrant is always a Rwandan migrant even if they have a UK passport . In other words he dug a trap for himself and fell into it . A working class person who wins the lottery tomorrow would still be working class. A Rwandan who arrives in the UK tomorrow would still be a Rwandan. A person with working class parents brought up in a middle class environment is middle class. A person of Rwandan parentage born and raised in Britain is British. You seem to be arguing that a person's class identity can change but their national identity can't. |
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