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Post by Bentley on Jul 28, 2024 11:50:28 GMT
Indeed. Those who think perpetrators can be easily subdued have been watching too many tv police programmes. In order to subdue someone you need either 1 overwhelming force 2 to distract them with pain or shock.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 28, 2024 12:11:33 GMT
I'd like to add to the subject of women police not being tough enough. Some years ago I was working on a police computer system and spent some time with the police talking about their requirements, which was very interesting. The subject of women police came up on a few occasions. The initial reaction of the male police - and there are some pretty tough cops who like nothing more than a punch-up - was that "judy" cops would be useless when they had too break up a fight in a pub on Friday night. But these attitudes softened as they realised that even drunken yobbos are less likely to attack female officers. So it did sort of work.
But obviously it doesn't work with muslim yobbos. Muslims have absolutely no problems with beating up women. That's what they're best at.
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Post by dodgydave on Jul 28, 2024 16:13:17 GMT
So, Hutchyns, having seen a bit more of what happened in this case what would your judgement now be? The situation is that the police tried to arrest a couple of Asians who had been accused of affray - some altercation involving their mother who had just arrived on a flight and had accused another passenger of a "racist" remark. So they attacked him. The police attempted to arrest them in the airport and a massive punch up ensued in which three police (2 female) were beaten up and the airport armed police had to be called in. They managed to subdue them but the level of violence on the part of the muslims was frankly staggering. Have you watched it? Would any normal person react with this level of violence? Most people would just go along to the police station and explain what happened. I was watching Peter Cardwell (Talk TV) who's usually quite sensible. But he's also gone over to the side of muslim apologism. He was simultaneously trying to argue that the problem may be that women police are not up to the job (not fit or strong enough) while attacking the male police officer, who finally managed to subdue these animals, of excessive force. I'd like to see Cardwell trying to subdue a couple of deranged muslims with "minimal force". maybe you'd like to try Hutchyns. They were lucky not to have been shot. In a muslim country, if they'd resisted arrest like this, they would have been taken away (after being severely beaten up) and never heard from again. That's the way it works over there. The full video is everywhere now. The police are trying to arrest somebody and then somebody else storms in and sucker punches three coppers, including a women who has her nose broken. It was not a "punch up", it was one guy sucker punching three coppers and then getting tasered. What do the public expect to happen to him once he has shown that level of violence?
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Post by sandypine on Jul 28, 2024 19:03:14 GMT
So, Hutchyns, having seen a bit more of what happened in this case what would your judgement now be? The situation is that the police tried to arrest a couple of Asians who had been accused of affray - some altercation involving their mother who had just arrived on a flight and had accused another passenger of a "racist" remark. So they attacked him. The police attempted to arrest them in the airport and a massive punch up ensued in which three police (2 female) were beaten up and the airport armed police had to be called in. They managed to subdue them but the level of violence on the part of the muslims was frankly staggering. Have you watched it? Would any normal person react with this level of violence? Most people would just go along to the police station and explain what happened. I was watching Peter Cardwell (Talk TV) who's usually quite sensible. But he's also gone over to the side of muslim apologism. He was simultaneously trying to argue that the problem may be that women police are not up to the job (not fit or strong enough) while attacking the male police officer, who finally managed to subdue these animals, of excessive force. I'd like to see Cardwell trying to subdue a couple of deranged muslims with "minimal force". maybe you'd like to try Hutchyns. They were lucky not to have been shot. In a muslim country, if they'd resisted arrest like this, they would have been taken away (after being severely beaten up) and never heard from again. That's the way it works over there. The full video is everywhere now. The police are trying to arrest somebody and then somebody else storms in and sucker punches three coppers, including a women who has her nose broken. It was not a "punch up", it was one guy sucker punching three coppers and then getting tasered. What do the public expect to happen to him once he has shown that level of violence? To be restrained by soft words and kindness.
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Post by Hutchyns on Jul 28, 2024 19:55:57 GMT
steppenwolf My judgement is that it would be foolish to make any judgement based on your version of what ' the situation is'. Particularly when my Sunday newspaper informs me of other versions that exist, including details of the Mother being hit in the face, being rammed with a trolley by the bloke who argued with her on the plane, etc etc, to the extent that I do wonder, should there prove to be any truth to such claims, that in a Muslim country it might well have been the other bloke who would have found himself getting arrested rather than the brothers. For the moment I'm inclined to suspect that Andy Burnham's claim that 'there's fault on both sides' could well prove to be correct. My other judgement is that I must find time to watch Peter Cardwell on Talk TV sometime.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 29, 2024 6:33:46 GMT
steppenwolf My judgement is that it would be foolish to make any judgement based on your version of what ' the situation is'. Particularly when my Sunday newspaper informs me of other versions that exist, including details of the Mother being hit in the face, being rammed with a trolley by the bloke who argued with her on the plane, etc etc, to the extent that I do wonder, should there prove to be any truth to such claims, that in a Muslim country it might well have been the other bloke who would have found himself getting arrested rather than the brothers. For the moment I'm inclined to suspect that Andy Burnham's claim that 'there's fault on both sides' could well prove to be correct. My other judgement is that I must find time to watch Peter Cardwell on Talk TV sometime. I included the bit about the altercation with the mother - that's how the argument started. The claim was that she was racially insulted (of course). I haven't seen any reports that she was hit in the face - sounds unlikely. And she wasn't "rammed" with a trolley. She claims that the man bumped her with his trolley. The point here is that these Pakistanis seriously assaulted 3 police officers causing actual bodily harm and then also assaulted the armed police actually trying to choke one of them. And STILL NO CHARGES HAVE BEEN MADE against them. Now tell me if anyone other than the muslims could have got away with this without being slammed in jail. And when I say that "they got what was coming to them" I'm stating the obvious. Anyone who attacks the armed police is asking to be shot. They got off lightly. If you'd ever lived in a muslim country you'd know that you do NOT mess with their police. But our police just let the muslims do whatever they like. I spent about 18 months living and working in the UAE and the culture is very different. People from the West tend to think that people mostly tell the truth because that's the way most people behave. The muslim culture is different. In particular most people either lie or embroider the truth. I know you'll regard this statement of racial prejudice but that would just show your ignorance. At some point I must write a post explaining this culture - haven't got time now.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 29, 2024 6:53:58 GMT
I also don't understand why the police are "talking to community leaders". WTF has it got to do with a lot of activist muslims? Why do muslims always have to be treated with kid gloves? All our politicians are afraid of them - and the police too apparently. What's the betting these Pakistanis spend no time in jail at all?
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 29, 2024 8:17:40 GMT
I see the family's lawyer Akhmed Yakoob has taken himself off the case. I guess he's looked at the fuller picture of what happened and decided that his clients were let off lightly.
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Post by Orac on Jul 29, 2024 9:19:56 GMT
Perhaps we should have made things a bit clearer
The government should prepare some leaflets in Arabic -
If you come to a British airport and attack security, you may get your bollocks booted so hard you time travel into the future.
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Post by Orac on Jul 29, 2024 9:30:52 GMT
I also don't understand why the police are "talking to community leaders". While we all have to pretend they are part of our 'community'.
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Post by sandypine on Jul 29, 2024 9:32:25 GMT
steppenwolf My judgement is that it would be foolish to make any judgement based on your version of what ' the situation is'. Particularly when my Sunday newspaper informs me of other versions that exist, including details of the Mother being hit in the face, being rammed with a trolley by the bloke who argued with her on the plane, etc etc, to the extent that I do wonder, should there prove to be any truth to such claims, that in a Muslim country it might well have been the other bloke who would have found himself getting arrested rather than the brothers. For the moment I'm inclined to suspect that Andy Burnham's claim that 'there's fault on both sides' could well prove to be correct. My other judgement is that I must find time to watch Peter Cardwell on Talk TV sometime. I included the bit about the altercation with the mother - that's how the argument started. The claim was that she was racially insulted (of course). I haven't seen any reports that she was hit in the face - sounds unlikely. And she wasn't "rammed" with a trolley. She claims that the man bumped her with his trolley. The point here is that these Pakistanis seriously assaulted 3 police officers causing actual bodily harm and then also assaulted the armed police actually trying to choke one of them. And STILL NO CHARGES HAVE BEEN MADE against them. Now tell me if anyone other than the muslims could have got away with this without being slammed in jail. And when I say that "they got what was coming to them" I'm stating the obvious. Anyone who attacks the armed police is asking to be shot. They got off lightly. If you'd ever lived in a muslim country you'd know that you do NOT mess with their police. But our police just let the muslims do whatever they like. I spent about 18 months living and working in the UAE and the culture is very different. People from the West tend to think that people mostly tell the truth because that's the way most people behave. The muslim culture is different. In particular most people either lie or embroider the truth. I know you'll regard this statement of racial prejudice but that would just show your ignorance. At some point I must write a post explaining this culture - haven't got time now. There is a book by David Pryce-Jones called the Closed Circle that lays out how honour, status, power and family dictate all in the Arab culture and lying and the truth depend very much on circumstances. Democracy is seen as a way to gain power through elections and give your own lot a chance to persecute and steal from everyone else. There is very little concept of public duty.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2024 13:53:58 GMT
I also don't understand why the police are "talking to community leaders". While we all have to pretend they are part of our 'community'. It's all a requirement since the Scarman Report in 1981 when we had to appease the type of people who went on to murder PC Blakelock. If we have been seen to communicate with their "leaders" then they have no excuse to riot. Of course, it's nonsense.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 30, 2024 6:52:15 GMT
I included the bit about the altercation with the mother - that's how the argument started. The claim was that she was racially insulted (of course). I haven't seen any reports that she was hit in the face - sounds unlikely. And she wasn't "rammed" with a trolley. She claims that the man bumped her with his trolley. The point here is that these Pakistanis seriously assaulted 3 police officers causing actual bodily harm and then also assaulted the armed police actually trying to choke one of them. And STILL NO CHARGES HAVE BEEN MADE against them. Now tell me if anyone other than the muslims could have got away with this without being slammed in jail. And when I say that "they got what was coming to them" I'm stating the obvious. Anyone who attacks the armed police is asking to be shot. They got off lightly. If you'd ever lived in a muslim country you'd know that you do NOT mess with their police. But our police just let the muslims do whatever they like. I spent about 18 months living and working in the UAE and the culture is very different. People from the West tend to think that people mostly tell the truth because that's the way most people behave. The muslim culture is different. In particular most people either lie or embroider the truth. I know you'll regard this statement of racial prejudice but that would just show your ignorance. At some point I must write a post explaining this culture - haven't got time now. There is a book by David Pryce-Jones called the Closed Circle that lays out how honour, status, power and family dictate all in the Arab culture and lying and the truth depend very much on circumstances. Democracy is seen as a way to gain power through elections and give your own lot a chance to persecute and steal from everyone else. There is very little concept of public duty. I remember reading an article about two Arabs meeting up to negotiate the purchase/sale of a camel. The two men spoke for hours but at no point did either of them mention the camel - and nothing either of them said was true. What they were basically doing was trying to present an entirely false picture about how important they each were. It's a very different culture over there. I always thought that the debacle about Sadam Hussein's "weapons of mass destruction" was caused by a complete misunderstanding of the Arab/muslim culture. Our negotiators thought that Sadam's evasiveness and prevarication were because he was trying to prevent them finding the weapons - but the fact was that he had no weapons but he wanted to create the illusion that he had because it made him seem more powerful. The fact is that some cultures don't tell the truth - and don't expect each other to tell the truth. It's quite a culture shock for Westerners going to live in muslim countries. The stories that these Pakistanis came out with about what happened in the various altercations almost certainly bear little relation to the truth. Fortunately everything seems to be filmed nowadays.
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Post by sandypine on Jul 30, 2024 12:18:24 GMT
There is a book by David Pryce-Jones called the Closed Circle that lays out how honour, status, power and family dictate all in the Arab culture and lying and the truth depend very much on circumstances. Democracy is seen as a way to gain power through elections and give your own lot a chance to persecute and steal from everyone else. There is very little concept of public duty. I remember reading an article about two Arabs meeting up to negotiate the purchase/sale of a camel. The two men spoke for hours but at no point did either of them mention the camel - and nothing either of them said was true. What they were basically doing was trying to present an entirely false picture about how important they each were. It's a very different culture over there. I always thought that the debacle about Sadam Hussein's "weapons of mass destruction" was caused by a complete misunderstanding of the Arab/muslim culture. Our negotiators thought that Sadam's evasiveness and prevarication were because he was trying to prevent them finding the weapons - but the fact was that he had no weapons but he wanted to create the illusion that he had because it made him seem more powerful. The fact is that some cultures don't tell the truth - and don't expect each other to tell the truth. It's quite a culture shock for Westerners going to live in muslim countries. The stories that these Pakistanis came out with about what happened in the various altercations almost certainly bear little relation to the truth. Fortunately everything seems to be filmed nowadays. Another anecdote in a book entitled the Back Garden of Allah written by a British Officer in 20s Egypt illustrates how honour rules all and 'public duty' is largely unknown. The officer wanted to keep a popular waterhole clean and commissioned an Arab to take care of it which he did in a very expert way. But his honour was attached to the waterhole and how it looked and no one was allowed to use it
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