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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 24, 2024 11:53:53 GMT
Well this is good. Two old men who don't understand diversity training trying to explain to each other what diversity training is, while confirming they don't like it. It's like an episode of The Fast Show. This week I been mostly eatin' yoghurt. 🫠 Well enlighten two old men. So far it has been it is not that and you do not understand. That is not elucidation. It is definitely NOT treating people equally as that would entail no knowledge of other people at all other than if I swear at Mr x I also swear at all the others. No. Equality is not about treating everyone the same, it's about treating people fairly. For example if you ask your team to run 100m, but one of your team is in a wheelchair, you've treated them all the same, but you haven't treated them all fairly.
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 24, 2024 11:58:38 GMT
Here we go, CRT. White privilege and all that rubbish. ^ Who mentioned any of that? That's where the premise of your 'unintentional discrimination' claim stems from, didn't you know that?
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 24, 2024 11:58:42 GMT
That's a poor analogy. If part of the team's function is participate in 100m races it would be very silly to hire someone in a wheelchair, wouldn't it?
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 24, 2024 12:07:39 GMT
Well enlighten two old men. So far it has been it is not that and you do not understand. That is not elucidation. It is definitely NOT treating people equally as that would entail no knowledge of other people at all other than if I swear at Mr x I also swear at all the others. No. Equality is not about treating everyone the same, it's about treating people fairly. For example if you ask your team to run 100m, but one of your team is in a wheelchair, you've treated them all the same, but you haven't treated them all fairly. I think you need more diversity training andy. Equality and fairness are different. Here's a better analogy I just found from the net. Ever tried sharing a piece of cake with a friend, meticulously ensuring each piece is perfectly even just to ensure everyone gets an “equal” slice? But what if your friend is an athlete needing more calories, while you’re an office worker sitting in front of a computer all day? Is sharing “equally” still “fair”?
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Post by sandypine on Jul 24, 2024 12:09:06 GMT
Well enlighten two old men. So far it has been it is not that and you do not understand. That is not elucidation. It is definitely NOT treating people equally as that would entail no knowledge of other people at all other than if I swear at Mr x I also swear at all the others. No. Equality is not about treating everyone the same, it's about treating people fairly. For example if you ask your team to run 100m, but one of your team is in a wheelchair, you've treated them all the same, but you haven't treated them all fairly. Which is exactly what I said in the post you pooh-poohed, that that allowance has existed to my knowledge in every workplace that I have ever been in and I have been all round the country in numerous workplaces. If a condition of the job is to run 100 metres then asking is treating people equally, you ask teh tall chap to reach the top shelf, you ask the small chap to retrieve the bags from the back of the cubby hole, you do not send the fat bloke on the roof to read the weather. However assessing diversity means assessing attributes now how does one go about doing that without being discriminatory either from one's own pre determined prejudices or from the predetermined prejudices of whomsoever is doing the training. It boils down to bollocks.
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 24, 2024 12:19:31 GMT
Remember, this comes from the same office that posted this: Hideously white, hideously nuclear. It is these kind of people who by and large are sent on diversity training as a type of conversion therapy to woke ideology.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 24, 2024 14:13:14 GMT
...Those that require the training are those that treat people differently based on gender, disability, ethnicity, age etc... Eh? That's exactly what diversity training teaches: Treating people according to their needs, which means not treating everyone the same. You clearly need some diversity training, Andy. 🤣
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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 24, 2024 14:46:21 GMT
...Those that require the training are those that treat people differently based on gender, disability, ethnicity, age etc... Eh? That's exactly what diversity training teaches: Treating people according to their needs, which means not treating everyone the same. You clearly need some diversity training, Andy. 🤣 I've never failed a diversity course yet. I have however failed financial crime a couple of times...
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Post by sandypine on Jul 24, 2024 14:50:56 GMT
Eh? That's exactly what diversity training teaches: Treating people according to their needs, which means not treating everyone the same. You clearly need some diversity training, Andy. 🤣 I've never failed a diversity course yet. I have however failed financial crime a couple of times... Well what are we getting wrong in our assumptions.
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Post by sandypine on Jul 24, 2024 15:01:17 GMT
Eh? That's exactly what diversity training teaches: Treating people according to their needs, which means not treating everyone the same. You clearly need some diversity training, Andy. 🤣 I've never failed a diversity course yet. I have however failed financial crime a couple of times... Well a quick question, you are a manager 100 miles away from 4 staff members and the only thing you know about them is their Nationality, you have an Irishman, a Scotsman, a German and a Kenyan. You have to assign four positions, a builder, an accountant, a manager and a runner to bring messages back to you. You can only get one message through with the positions assigned. What do you do and how do you assign the positions. I know what I would do with my understanding of diversity and chance, would you do the same?
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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 24, 2024 16:18:03 GMT
If you know nothing about these people how can you do anything other than randomly assign? How would you know which one is capable of building, or accountancy? If you have no information how can you make a decision? Their nationalities are irrelevant to it.
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Post by sandypine on Jul 24, 2024 18:30:00 GMT
If you know nothing about these people how can you do anything other than randomly assign? How would you know which one is capable of building, or accountancy? If you have no information how can you make a decision? Their nationalities are irrelevant to it. You have information, you are management you have to assign on the basis of what information you have. I had many staff over many years and I had to make many assumptions based on limited knowledge. The question is as regards what would you do to give yourself the best chances of a reasonable outcome? It may be totally wrong but totally random is not as good as an educated guess based on limited knowledge. Is that not what diversity training teaches that one should not treat people randomly equal but be aware of differences?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2024 18:31:30 GMT
Well enlighten two old men. So far it has been it is not that and you do not understand. That is not elucidation. It is definitely NOT treating people equally as that would entail no knowledge of other people at all other than if I swear at Mr x I also swear at all the others. No. Equality is not about treating everyone the same, it's about treating people fairly. For example if you ask your team to run 100m, but one of your team is in a wheelchair, you've treated them all the same, but you haven't treated them all fairly. Actually, it isn't. You are conflating equity with equality.
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Post by sandypine on Jul 24, 2024 18:50:05 GMT
No. Equality is not about treating everyone the same, it's about treating people fairly. For example if you ask your team to run 100m, but one of your team is in a wheelchair, you've treated them all the same, but you haven't treated them all fairly. Actually, it isn't. You are conflating equity with equality. I was trying to find a definition but the best I got, which contains much jargon, was "Diversity training is a program designed to facilitate positive intergroup interaction, reduce prejudice and discrimination, and generally teach individuals who are different from others how to work together effectively1. It is an initiative taken by most companies to create awareness of diversity issues and bring about cohesiveness in teams2. Diversity training is primarily a part of the leadership development programs to promote togetherness and level playing field for all" Now I am not clear how you can teach that other than what people, who have any management skills at all, already know and if people are different, as anyone with any nous at all knows, then what can you learn to counteract assumptions which is called in this instance prejudice and discrimination.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 24, 2024 19:00:07 GMT
I'm not sure why you are trying to associate it with management, it's for all. These types of courses are often compulsory for employees.
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