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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 12, 2024 7:30:35 GMT
The Cons are split. According to my sources there are two factions: the one nation Conservatives and what the media call Right Wing, meaning typically they would like to get us out of the ECHR and cut immigration. I suppose you could surmise that the one nation lot tend towards the woke brainwashing through their love of third worlders. However the so-called Right Wing lot are not much better because they want to be more controlled by the US. Typical of this group would be Johnson and Truss. There is a bit of a catch though, because the Right Wing lot, who are more anti-EU and pro-US can also be fully woke since woke in the first place came from America's black rights moments and its homosexual movements. So you kind of have woke or woke. Where they appear to disagree is between being the EU's bitch or Uncle Sam's bitch. They both want war with Russia though, indeed the whole House of Commons wants to carry on fighting this unwinable war, but I guess you could say the Right Wing lot are all the more fervent about it as they march with the stars and stripes. Of course the EU takes orders from Uncle Sam as well, but less enthusiastically.
Actually you can probably tell I'm not that keen on either group as they are all working for foreign powers and to a large extent bought off by them. The issue here though is they can not achieve any results by being in disagreement. The immigration plan was very watered down by the one nation conservatives via threat of them block voting the bill out if it made then cry too much about their beloved black, Middle Eastern and South Asian lovers. No doubt there was money riding on these people supporting a particular side, but the result was a bill that flopped and failed to reduce immigration, indeed it got worse.
Now the lot of them are out on their arses and you can imagine a fair bit of that failure was they themselves arguing with one another instead of working together to the benefit of the British people. So the party can go one of three ways: remain split, be pro immigration or be anti immigration, which as mentioned above tends to indicate if they are pro-EU or pro-US as well. Do let us know which way you reckon it will go?
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Post by piglet on Jul 12, 2024 9:35:36 GMT
The Conservatives are broken, what is important is where do people like Truss and Braverman go from here? Reform? Who else? The left of the Conservatives will win, they did a long time ago, its all wind from now on. Here we are fearful of Russia and China, while the wests democrat left dictatorships gathers pace, led by the yankee universities.
Thats three political blocks vying for global power. Britain is as a serf as any working class Chinese, being told what to do think. Farage will be crushed, eventually, the young will think our governers are not dictators, and have the illusion all is well.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 12, 2024 10:15:46 GMT
The Conservatives are broken, what is important is where do people like Truss and Braverman go from here? Reform? Who else? The left of the Conservatives will win, they did a long time ago, its all wind from now on. Here we are fearful of Russia and China, while the wests democrat left dictatorships gathers pace, led by the yankee universities. Thats three political blocks vying for global power. Britain is as a serf as any working class Chinese, being told what to do think. Farage will be crushed, eventually, the young will think our governers are not dictators, and have the illusion all is well. Here's a weird one. There was a poll conducted where to within a percent, Reform members (/supporters?) were equally split on whether they want Reform to merge with the Cons or not.
A third option would be to admit the odd one or two who you think will do you some good and wants to jump ship. Braverman is looking like a potential candidate right now. As far as Reform's reputation is concerned, firstly Braverman is an immigrant herself, so just like Rishi, we know as Conservative turkeys don't vote for Christmas, no matter what they tell you. The second problem with that is the Cons failed and were so corrupt I think they hang there like the News of the World. No one would touch that rag with a bargepole after they were found out. Actually if I were running Reform I don't think I would let in the Right Wing Conservatives. If they have nowhere to jump to then they are more likely to stay in the party and keep the split going so the split destroys them. This split has been around since the 80s and 90s.
I found it interesting that out of all the paper candidates Reform had, since we kind of imagined Farage, Tice and Anderson were likely to get in, the public selected two others out of about 600. It's an incredibly difficult thing to do to win a seat in an party that has not got any seats and you are an unknown, but both of these were bankers. How odd eh? One can reason the public love the bankers far more than is imagined.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jul 13, 2024 11:06:11 GMT
The Conservatives are broken, what is important is where do people like Truss and Braverman go from here? Reform? Who else? The left of the Conservatives will win, they did a long time ago, its all wind from now on. Here we are fearful of Russia and China, while the wests democrat left dictatorships gathers pace, led by the yankee universities. Thats three political blocks vying for global power. Britain is as a serf as any working class Chinese, being told what to do think. Farage will be crushed, eventually, the young will think our governers are not dictators, and have the illusion all is well. Truss lost her seat so she's irrelevant. Badenoch and Braverman seem to be kicking lumps out of each other. I guess how the remaining Tory MPs are will define where the party goes. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 13, 2024 11:51:51 GMT
The Tories are faced with an easy choice, and it really is an easy choice:
a) Remain centrist as people like William Hague insist they must, or...
b) Move to the centre right and become a proper Conservative party.
If they follow Hague's advice and remain centrist they will, in my opinion, become irrelevant because Reform UK will go from strength to strength as they hoover up voters who want a proper centre right party, and after five years of this government voters will want a centre right party. On the other hand, if they move to the centre right then traditional Tory voters will I think abandon Reform and return to the Conservative party.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 13, 2024 12:56:52 GMT
The Tories are faced with an easy choice, and it really is an easy choice: a) Remain centrist as people like William Hague insist they must, or... b) Move to the centre right and become a proper Conservative party. If they follow Hague's advice and remain centrist they will, in my opinion, become irrelevant because Reform UK will go from strength to strength as they hoover up voters who want a proper centre right party, and after five years of this government voters will want a centre right party. On the other hand, if they move to the centre right then traditional Tory voters will I think abandon Reform and return to the Conservative party. They told us they were centre right all along, but people aint stupid. What really irks people is all this gay bollox and this trans bollox. That's no where near centralist. That is extremist, just as Muslims are extremist relative to our Christian heritage. If Reform continue with this crap about treating every religion equally then they are essentially just as woke as the other lot, yet either they don't know it or don't admit to it. Also if you think about it, FPTP is anti-woke. If you try and be a party which is all things to all people then you will do well with PR but never get a seat in the UK because in the UK every area is different. FPTP biases things so you end up selecting a party which had a clear direction. If you tell them you are anti-woke and support traditional values you must favour the Christian church and kick all the gays out of it. The equality philosophy is fake. There never was equality in nature. It is an artificial construct. Those trans who you see on the telly are just Marxist activists with blue hair as a form of disguise. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 13, 2024 13:40:11 GMT
The Tories are faced with an easy choice, and it really is an easy choice: a) Remain centrist as people like William Hague insist they must, or... b) Move to the centre right and become a proper Conservative party. If they follow Hague's advice and remain centrist they will, in my opinion, become irrelevant because Reform UK will go from strength to strength as they hoover up voters who want a proper centre right party, and after five years of this government voters will want a centre right party. On the other hand, if they move to the centre right then traditional Tory voters will I think abandon Reform and return to the Conservative party. They told us they were centre right all along, but people aint stupid. What really irks people is all this gay bollox and this trans bollox. That's no where near centralist. That is extremist, just as Muslims are extremist relative to our Christian heritage. If Reform continue with this crap about treating every religion equally then they are essentially just as woke as the other lot, yet either they don't know it or don't admit to it. Also if you think about it, FPTP is anti-woke. If you try and be a party which is all things to all people then you will do well with PR but never get a seat in the UK because in the UK every area is different. FPTP biases things so you end up selecting a party which had a clear direction. If you tell them you are anti-woke and support traditional values you must favour the Christian church and kick all the gays out of it. The equality philosophy is fake. There never was equality in nature. It is an artificial construct. Those trans who you see on the telly are just Marxist activists with blue hair as a form of disguise. Well said BvL, we are in complete agreement. However, I will add; Unlike any other party Reform (Much like GB News) have to jump through hoops and be very careful what they say because Labour and the left supporting media hang on their every word in the desperate hope of finding something to censure or smear them with, as C4 unsuccessfully attempted. Everyone knows Farage isn't woke, but Farage knows he has to be careful what he says. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 13, 2024 19:23:17 GMT
The Conservatives are broken, what is important is where do people like Truss and Braverman go from here? Reform? Who else? The left of the Conservatives will win, they did a long time ago, its all wind from now on. Here we are fearful of Russia and China, while the wests democrat left dictatorships gathers pace, led by the yankee universities. Thats three political blocks vying for global power. Britain is as a serf as any working class Chinese, being told what to do think. Farage will be crushed, eventually, the young will think our governers are not dictators, and have the illusion all is well. Truss lost her seat so she's irrelevant. Badenoch and Braverman seem to be kicking lumps out of each other. I guess how the remaining Tory MPs are will define where the party goes. Nikki Morgan lost her seat in 2019, she's now a Baroness. It is possible that Truss will get the same treatment, so not to be written off entirely. |
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Post by bancroft on Jul 15, 2024 13:37:49 GMT
You can't really tell at the moment they will need to react to what happens internationally as well as what transpires here.
Look what's happened recently allied shipping being attacked in the Red Sea making a lot of boat traffic use longer routes.
A lot of press is controlled to keep the markets quiet we might wake up one day and find the world has changed and so the parties have to change.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 15, 2024 14:28:34 GMT
You can't really tell at the moment they will need to react to what happens internationally as well as what transpires here. Look what's happened recently allied shipping being attacked in the Red Sea making a lot of boat traffic use longer routes. A lot of press is controlled to keep the markets quiet we might wake up one day and find the world has changed and so the parties have to change. The Cons are up the arses of the secret services and the Americans just as Starmer is, although I don't think Corbyn was, so he had to be antisemited out of the picture, a bit like trying to prosecute Trump I guess.
I just wonder if the Cons will decide to reject the entire socialist programme or will they compete with Labour and carry on appealing to immigrants over the British. Labour are going to pass the same bills as the Tories were planning to do, except for a few cosmetic differences. I mean the woke agenda will be advanced under them. If this is the case then I worry that Reform will be brought into the corruption and compromised so they don't pose any real threat to the programme. That Muslim donor who bought his position with a 200k donation is ex-Goldman Sachs. I don't believe that is just another coincidence, do you?
Someone who seems to be talking sense right now is David Starkey. He's just said that in order to fix our problems the whole programme must be completely reversed and all New Labour and Tory woke acts repealed and a big one there is the Equalities Act. Now the point about that is I do not believe it is possible to repeal that one right now as what it does is align itself with the ECHR, which has been getting progressively stricter on these matters. Reform say they will leave, so this makes repeal possible. There is some doubt whether they would go the whole way. Starkey has the right idea, but he gets a few things wrong in the economics department I've noticed. He's good regarding constitutional issues. Roger Scruton was also good on the issues of human rights and well worth a listen.
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Post by bancroft on Jul 15, 2024 15:43:30 GMT
You can't really tell at the moment they will need to react to what happens internationally as well as what transpires here. Look what's happened recently allied shipping being attacked in the Red Sea making a lot of boat traffic use longer routes. A lot of press is controlled to keep the markets quiet we might wake up one day and find the world has changed and so the parties have to change. The Cons are up the arses of the secret services and the Americans just as Starmer is, although I don't think Corbyn was, so he had to be antisemited out of the picture, a bit like trying to prosecute Trump I guess.
I just wonder if the Cons will decide to reject the entire socialist programme or will they compete with Labour and carry on appealing to immigrants over the British. Labour are going to pass the same bills as the Tories were planning to do, except for a few cosmetic differences. I mean the woke agenda will be advanced under them. If this is the case then I worry that Reform will be brought into the corruption and compromised so they don't pose any real threat to the programme. That Muslim donor who bought his position with a 200k donation is ex-Goldman Sachs. I don't believe that is just another coincidence, do you?
Someone who seems to be talking sense right now is David Starkey. He's just said that in order to fix our problems the whole programme must be completely reversed and all New Labour and Tory woke acts repealed and a big one there is the Equalities Act. Now the point about that is I do not believe it is possible to repeal that one right now as what it does is align itself with the ECHR, which has been getting progressively stricter on these matters. Reform say they will leave, so this makes repeal possible. There is some doubt whether they would go the whole way. Starkey has the right idea, but he gets a few things wrong in the economics department I've noticed. He's good regarding constitutional issues. Roger Scruton was also good on the issues of human rights and well worth a listen.
Yes I have looked at Roger Scruton before, the ECHR is equated with the UN standards and only one country in Europe stands up to this and it is Denmark since the 90's, a small fossil fuel rich country so probably they don't need the EU yet decide it makes more sense to remain. They have holding camps and they stick two fingers up to the UN and only take a fraction of what the UN asks for. For some reason they have been ignored by British and EU press....... World power changes will determine which way we go as the global power jigsaw changes and new deals need to be made, watch the Med, Turkey and Israel over the next 2-3 years. Not sure what happens in Asia or West Africa - Atlantic Africa guess there will be changes too. I don't see India coming back to the fold they got annoyed by a couple of incidents of US naughtiness involving dangerous materials, remember that slow boat from 9/11 to India and this was not the only thing. Of course Russian fuel is cheaper and the US failed to get Caspian oil through to those markets as the Taliban backed by Saudi money and tribal Pakistan was taking too much out of the US remember they had to strip the US state national guards of mechanised vehicles to try and break the Taliban while the Taliban rode motorcycles with radios and Kalashnikovs. |
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