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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 5, 2024 19:09:53 GMT
How long will they blame the legacy of the Tories .... I bet at least 4 years. Well Labshite were still blaming Mrs T after they'd had three terms in office.
So I'd say that the lefty dullards will still be blaming the Tories when the Sun finally expands to engulf the Earth.
The twats.  Wasn't it Mrs T who enabled Rayner and her hubby to buy TWO - Right-to-buy Council properties ..... that they made a tidy little sum....
Rayner should be singing ...
ONE Maggie Thatcher ... There's only one Maggie Thatcher ... There's only one Magggieee Thatcher.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 5, 2024 19:11:39 GMT
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 5, 2024 19:16:34 GMT
So what happened to the great, national hero led, Reform UK surge? 4 Seats - like I predicted (I predicted 2-6). In only 4 seats were the electorate dumb enough to vote for a snakeoil salesman. Pleasantly surprised by that. All The Best But in total Reform polled more votes than the FibDims.
In reality they are the third party. Their paucity of seats is more a damning indictment of our rigged voting system.
Bring on PR.
In reality the Lib-Dems are the 3rd party. I agree with your points on FPTP and PR though. But Reform UK knew that was we have, so can't really complain too much about it. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 5, 2024 19:21:32 GMT
Corbyn failed because the Blairite Centrists prevented him voicing his real opinion on the EU. Meaning Labour were then, as now unfortunately, "more of the Tory same". But with such a majority the PLP may have the balls to row-back on the centre-right Tory-lite shit, and become a genuine centre-left party. All The Bsst That may or may not be true but we have Europhiles in charge now and we know Starmer was an arch Remainer and will 'build' better relations with the EU which means that the UK may become a sort of Associate member of the EU with much alignment and effectively little non-alignment. Better relations with the EU wouldn't be a bad thing in and of themselves. The problem will arise of it ever gets to the point where the EU can impose laws we have no say over; and I just don't see that happening. All The Best |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 5, 2024 19:23:17 GMT
But in total Reform polled more votes than the FibDims. In reality they are the third party. Their paucity of seats is more a damning indictment of our rigged voting system. Bring on PR.
In reality the Lib-Dems are the 3rd party... On what metric - a totally flawed voting system that even left wing sources are now starting to question? In terms of public votes (the only true democratic measure) the FibDims are fourth. Their claim to any other authority is a faux one. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 5, 2024 19:27:06 GMT
That may or may not be true but we have Europhiles in charge now and we know Starmer was an arch Remainer and will 'build' better relations with the EU which means that the UK may become a sort of Associate member of the EU with much alignment and effectively little non-alignment. Better relations with the EU wouldn't be a bad thing in and of themselves. The problem will arise of it ever gets to the point where the EU can impose laws we have no say over; and I just don't see that happening. All The Best I agree better relations would be no bad thing but the EU always arrives with strings. Being a good neighbour is seen as an opportunity by the EU, not an altruistic action. They think you cannot be a good neighbour unless you meet their conditions. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 5, 2024 20:04:40 GMT
In reality the Lib-Dems are the 3rd party... In terms of public votes (the only true democratic measure) the FibDims are fourth. Their claim to any other authority is a faux one. Exactly, because that is the voting system we have, and all candidates knew that and, therefore, accepted the vagaries of that system when they put their names forward. I am in agreement with you that we should have PR; but we don't, so we all have to work within the system we do have to bring about changes to that system. By that metric the Lib-Dems are the 3rd Party. All The Best |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 5, 2024 20:19:28 GMT
On what metric - a totally flawed voting system that even left wing sources are now starting to question?In terms of public votes (the only true democratic measure) the FibDims are fourth. Their claim to any other authority is a faux one. Exactly, because that is the voting system we have, and all candidates knew that and, therefore, accepted the vagaries of that system when they put their names forward. I am in agreement with you that we should have PR; but we don't, so we all have to work within the system we do have to bring about changes to that system. By that metric the Lib-Dems are the 3rd Party. All The Best Yes I've said before we are operating in the 21st century with a 19th century system, I'm just a bit sceptical about certain people seemingly suddenly developing a problem with it when it delivers a result they don't like. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 5, 2024 20:38:33 GMT
On what metric - a totally flawed voting system that even left wing sources are now starting to question?In terms of public votes (the only true democratic measure) the FibDims are fourth. Their claim to any other authority is a faux one. Exactly, because that is the voting system we have, and all candidates knew that and, therefore, accepted the vagaries of that system when they put their names forward. I am in agreement with you that we should have PR; but we don't, so we all have to work within the system we do have to bring about changes to that system. By that metric the Lib-Dems are the 3rd Party. All The Best Yep, can't argue - that's the system (but there again, plenty argue vs the system we had for the referendum).
But systems can be changed and should be - especially when they become so demonstrably out of kilter as this one has.
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Post by happyjack on Jul 5, 2024 20:56:18 GMT
They blamed everything on Labour and the global financial crash it until Covid came along, giving them something new to add to the list of things to blame everything on. COVID caused a global financial crash? Not to my knowledge |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 5, 2024 20:58:13 GMT
COVID caused a global financial crash? Not to my knowledge Ok |
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Post by vlk on Jul 5, 2024 22:31:35 GMT
In 2005 there was an outcry how 35% of the votes yielded 55% of the seats. This time it was even more disproportionate than that.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 5, 2024 23:24:00 GMT
Exactly, because that is the voting system we have, and all candidates knew that and, therefore, accepted the vagaries of that system when they put their names forward. I am in agreement with you that we should have PR; but we don't, so we all have to work within the system we do have to bring about changes to that system. By that metric the Lib-Dems are the 3rd Party. All The Best Yes I've said before we are operating in the 21st century with a 19th century system, I'm just a bit sceptical about certain people seemingly suddenly developing a problem with it when it delivers a result they don't like. Farage, to his credit, has long argued in favour of PR; because it was PR that saw him elected as an MEP. But there will certainly be others whose Damascene conversion smacks more than a little of sour grapes. All The Best |
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Post by vlk on Jul 5, 2024 23:27:11 GMT
If we are stuck with the two party-monopoly then at least it is welcome once in a while that tweedledee replaces tweedledum or the other way round.
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Post by aristaeus on Jul 6, 2024 6:58:23 GMT
Exactly, because that is the voting system we have, and all candidates knew that and, therefore, accepted the vagaries of that system when they put their names forward. I am in agreement with you that we should have PR; but we don't, so we all have to work within the system we do have to bring about changes to that system. By that metric the Lib-Dems are the 3rd Party. All The Best Yep, can't argue - that's the system (but there again, plenty argue vs the system we had for the referendum).
But systems can be changed and should be - especially when they become so demonstrably out of kilter as this one has.
We had a referendum to get rid of it, and people voted to keep it. |
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