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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 2, 2024 18:57:31 GMT
Well, I guess you know better than the Classics Department at one of the top ten universities in the country then. We should let them all know they have been teaching it all wrong because of 5 minutes you spent with google, but with no understanding of contemporaneous context, and while exhibiting the anachronistic fallacy numerous times. Oh, wait, no we shouldn't... All The Best I have three links that support my position . I’m going to take more notice of those rather than a bloke who says he wrote an essay about it and compares human chattels to brood mares and cookers . Tbh it would take one minute to refute that nonsense. Oooooh "three links" .... ....scary. That must cover about 0.0000001% of the available data on the subject. Must make you an expert... ...right? All The Best
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Post by Bentley on Jul 2, 2024 19:00:13 GMT
I have three links that support my position . I’m going to take more notice of those rather than a bloke who says he wrote an essay about it and compares human chattels to brood mares and cookers . Tbh it would take one minute to refute that nonsense. Oooooh "three links" .... ....scary. That must cover about 0.0000001% of the available data on the subject. Must make you an expert... ...right? All The Best Yes three links that make sense and support what I already knew against one poster telling one thing and refuting it every time he posts . It doesn't make me an expert , it makes you delusional .
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 2, 2024 19:01:54 GMT
Oooooh "three links" .... ....scary. That must cover about 0.0000001% of the available data on the subject. Must make you an expert... ...right? All The Best Yes three links that make sense and support what I already knew against one poster telling one thing and refuting it every time he posts . It doesn't make me an expert , it makes you delusional . I have not refuted my own posts. That you think I have just demonstrates my previous point about you being an ignorant fucktard, or a troll. All The Best
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Post by Bentley on Jul 2, 2024 19:09:21 GMT
Yes three links that make sense and support what I already knew against one poster telling one thing and refuting it every time he posts . It doesn't make me an expert , it makes you delusional . I have not refuted my own posts. That you think I have just demonstrates my previous point about you being an ignorant fucktard, or a troll. Just look at them . They are pathetic. You agree that women were chattels and not unlike brood mares but claim the men held them in high esteem. You “If you own a house I will bet my left bollock you value it more than the cooker in the kitchen; I am willing to bet you invest more in maintaining and protecting the house than you do the cooker.” …oh ffs what kind of argument is that ? Complete bollocks to anyone but a deluded faux academic ….who calls anyone who exposes his nonsense as an ‘ ignorant fucktard , or a troll .
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 2, 2024 20:51:24 GMT
I have not refuted my own posts. That you think I have just demonstrates my previous point about you being an ignorant fucktard, or a troll. Just look at them . They are pathetic. You agree that women were chattels and not unlike brood mares but claim the men held them in high esteem. You “If you own a house I will bet my left bollock you value it more than the cooker in the kitchen; I am willing to bet you invest more in maintaining and protecting the house than you do the cooker.” …oh ffs what kind of argument is that ? Complete bollocks to anyone but a deluded faux academic ….who calls anyone who exposes his nonsense as an ‘ ignorant fucktard , or a troll . Imagine a Greek or Roman member of the "landed gentry". Imagine they have 100 slaves. The chances that they will treat them all the same, and think equally well, or poorly, of them all would be Zero. Thus there is a hierarchy of "value", not just monetary, within those slaves. From that hierarchy of value we could then say that the slave at the top of the hierarchy was held in high esteem RELATIVE to the slaves at the bottom of the value hierarchy. Would any of those slaves be held in as high esteem as another Roman or Greek citizen? Almost certainly not. But within the hierarchy of slaves the one at the top would be held in high esteem. Likewise, of all the chattels a Greek Man may "own" it is likely that the wife who bears his children and manages his household is held in high esteem REALTIVE to the other chattels owned by that man. Is this really so difficult to understand? You surely have to be pretending to be this thick, right? All The Best
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Post by Bentley on Jul 2, 2024 21:32:21 GMT
Just look at them . They are pathetic. You agree that women were chattels and not unlike brood mares but claim the men held them in high esteem. You “If you own a house I will bet my left bollock you value it more than the cooker in the kitchen; I am willing to bet you invest more in maintaining and protecting the house than you do the cooker.” …oh ffs what kind of argument is that ? Complete bollocks to anyone but a deluded faux academic ….who calls anyone who exposes his nonsense as an ‘ ignorant fucktard , or a troll . Imagine a Greek or Roman member of the "landed gentry". Imagine they have 100 slaves. The chances that they will treat them all the same, and think equally well, or poorly, of them all would be Zero. Thus there is a hierarchy of "value", not just monetary, within those slaves. From that hierarchy of value we could then say that the slave at the top of the hierarchy was held in high esteem RELATIVE to the slaves at the bottom of the value hierarchy. Would any of those slaves be held in as high esteem as another Roman or Greek citizen? Almost certainly not. But within the hierarchy of slaves the one at the top would be held in high esteem. Likewise, of all the chattels a Greek Man may "own" it is likely that the wife who bears his children and manages his household is held in high esteem REALTIVE to the other chattels owned by that man. Is this really so difficult to understand? You surely have to be pretending to be this thick, right? All The Best You keep posting this shit that a human chattel can be held in high esteem then follow up with claiming anyone who doesn’t accept this nonsense must be thick . Claiming that a human chattel without any meaningful rights can be held in high esteem because there may be some other chattels that are treated worse is moronic , completely moronic . ” I hold my pedigree breeding bitch in high esteem “ ” Really? Every morning youkick it up the arse “ ” Yes but I kick the others up the arse twice “ This is the level of debate you have chosen to support a premise that you lost several posts ago .
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 2, 2024 23:28:38 GMT
Imagine a Greek or Roman member of the "landed gentry". Imagine they have 100 slaves. The chances that they will treat them all the same, and think equally well, or poorly, of them all would be Zero. Thus there is a hierarchy of "value", not just monetary, within those slaves. From that hierarchy of value we could then say that the slave at the top of the hierarchy was held in high esteem RELATIVE to the slaves at the bottom of the value hierarchy. Would any of those slaves be held in as high esteem as another Roman or Greek citizen? Almost certainly not. But within the hierarchy of slaves the one at the top would be held in high esteem. Likewise, of all the chattels a Greek Man may "own" it is likely that the wife who bears his children and manages his household is held in high esteem REALTIVE to the other chattels owned by that man. Is this really so difficult to understand? You surely have to be pretending to be this thick, right? All The Best You keep posting this shit that a human chattel can be held in high esteem then follow up with claiming anyone who doesn’t accept this nonsense must be thick . Claiming that a human chattel without any meaningful rights can be held in high esteem because there may be some other chattels that are treated worse is moronic , completely moronic . ” I hold my pedigree breeding bitch in high esteem “ ” Really? Every morning youkick it up the arse “ ” Yes but I kick the others up the arse twice “ This is the level of debate you have chosen to support a premise that you lost several posts ago . See, you are missing a key word here that makes it impossible for you to grasp something that really is quite simple. I am talking about "RELATIVE high esteem". You seem to be talking about absolute high esteem, which doesn't exist because there are no absolutes in social structures. Until you grasp that vital difference I'll continue to conclude that, based on the evidence of this thread, you are "a bit thick". What is moronic is failing to grasp that ALL social values are RELATIVE. All The Best
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 3, 2024 7:27:26 GMT
You seem to have missed mine The lousy state of business today has got sod all to do with women running things and everything to to with those running the show running scared of offending the wokeWhich is one of the reasons why there are so many women running things.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 3, 2024 7:27:36 GMT
When I was younger, I was surprisingly left wing and I believed in empowering women and all that stuff. I believed that a woman can be as good as a man in many roles, and indeed I still do.
But over the years, the majority of bad bosses that I've experienced have been women. I didn't initially notice this, but one day I was enjoying an after work beer with some other highly experienced colleagues and the conversation came around to management fuck-ups.
After about the tenth tale of “Who remembers the time when..” one of my colleagues said: “And can anyone spot the common denominator?” And bingo, there it was: The majority of those memorable fuck-ups involved a female boss.
The rush to recruit more women, to have x number of women on the board etc. has lead to a decrease in standards. It's not that women can't fulfil those roles but when none of the applicants are suitable but you have to select a woman well, the result is inevitable.
And that's a problem for the women themselves who are often pressured into taking more responsibility than they are comfortable with. That leads to poor decision making, micro-management and declining staff relations. And ultimately, the career death of the boss themselves due to stress.
Indeed, I've observed that the giveaway of such female managers is the need to assert dominance over everything even where it's completely unnecessary. So I can easily see how something like the Post Office scandal can occur where you have an over promoted female CEO presiding over an incoming disaster while shouting down anyone that dares raise a concern. I see it on a smaller scale quite regularly.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 3, 2024 7:36:06 GMT
When I was younger, I was surprisingly left wing and I believed in empowering women and all that stuff. I believed that a woman can be as good as a man in many roles, and indeed I still do. But over the years, the majority of bad bosses that I've experienced have been women. I didn't initially notice this, but one day I was enjoying an after work beer with some other highly experienced colleagues and the conversation came around to management fuck-ups. After about the tenth tale of “Who remembers the time when..” one of my colleagues said: “And can anyone spot the common denominator?” And bingo, there it was: The majority of those memorable fuck-ups involved a female boss. The rush to recruit more women, to have x number of women on the board etc. has lead to a decrease in standards. It's not that women can't fulfil those roles but when none of the applicants are suitable but you have to select a woman well, the result is inevitable. And that's a problem for the women themselves who are often pressured into taking more responsibility than they are comfortable with. That leads to poor decision making, micro-management and declining staff relations. And ultimately, the career death of the boss themselves due to stress. Indeed, I've observed that the giveaway of such female managers is the need to assert dominance over everything even where it's completely unnecessary. So I can easily see how something like the Post Office scandal can occur where you have an over promoted female CEO presiding over an incoming disaster while shouting down anyone that dares raise a concern. I see it on a smaller scale quite regularly. I agree, but just to add to that, how many smart people thinking of taking a career in what you do/did gave it one look and decided it was woke central and they just did not fancy that kind of lifestyle so never even applied.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 3, 2024 8:51:13 GMT
When I was younger, I was surprisingly left wing and I believed in empowering women and all that stuff. I believed that a woman can be as good as a man in many roles, and indeed I still do. But over the years, the majority of bad bosses that I've experienced have been women. I didn't initially notice this, but one day I was enjoying an after work beer with some other highly experienced colleagues and the conversation came around to management fuck-ups. After about the tenth tale of “Who remembers the time when..” one of my colleagues said: “And can anyone spot the common denominator?” And bingo, there it was: The majority of those memorable fuck-ups involved a female boss. The rush to recruit more women, to have x number of women on the board etc. has lead to a decrease in standards. It's not that women can't fulfil those roles but when none of the applicants are suitable but you have to select a woman well, the result is inevitable. And that's a problem for the women themselves who are often pressured into taking more responsibility than they are comfortable with. That leads to poor decision making, micro-management and declining staff relations. And ultimately, the career death of the boss themselves due to stress. Indeed, I've observed that the giveaway of such female managers is the need to assert dominance over everything even where it's completely unnecessary. So I can easily see how something like the Post Office scandal can occur where you have an over promoted female CEO presiding over an incoming disaster while shouting down anyone that dares raise a concern. I see it on a smaller scale quite regularly. My experience has been different; the less competent bosses I have worked under have all been male. The two most competent have been female. But I do find common ground with your last paragraph. When shit goes wrong Women do seem less able to rapidly find a solution by delegating and do become somewhat overbearing. I wonder if this is a desire to not "rock the boat" with the higher-ups, because even Bosses ultimately "work for someone"; I wonder if they'd rather engage in damage limitation than face the problem head on because of the perceived fallout of doing so. The one other area I have noted a difference is that Women tend to more easily be thrown into a tail-spin by non-workplace factors. I have had two bosses, one Male one Female, who were working through serious family crises. The Male boss simply said "I need to be at home a lot more for a few weeks you guys are all going to have to step up significantly" and was gone, he'd check twice-weekly with his second in command, and that was it. The Female boss was all over the place, going into overbearing micro-management mode when there was no crisis in the workplace, and trying to do it all - inevitably work suffered. The net result was the same, the rest of us had to step up a bit, but the mistakes she made in that initial rush to "do everything" meant it was harder for us keep things on an even keel than it was with the Male boss who just trusted us from the start. Also, from talking to other people it does seem that nepotism is rife is most areas of British Business and that Male bosses are as likely to be involved as Female bosses; however, I have only personally encountered it under a Female boss. Maybe the "mother instinct" to protect her children and help them in anyway was responsible for the fact we were paying one of her kids to do externally as "a freelancer" to do what we could, and should have been doing in-house at a third the cost we were paying her kid. All The Best
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 3, 2024 8:54:28 GMT
Also, as a sort of response to Baron's response to Squeezed-Middle.
I work in an industry that is literally swamped by wokeness - the Live Entertainment industry. Of all the people I have encountered in that industry my current boss, who is Female, is arguably the least woke person I have met.
All The Best
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 3, 2024 9:01:02 GMT
When I was younger, I was surprisingly left wing and I believed in empowering women and all that stuff. I believed that a woman can be as good as a man in many roles, and indeed I still do. But over the years, the majority of bad bosses that I've experienced have been women. I didn't initially notice this, but one day I was enjoying an after work beer with some other highly experienced colleagues and the conversation came around to management fuck-ups. After about the tenth tale of “Who remembers the time when..” one of my colleagues said: “And can anyone spot the common denominator?” And bingo, there it was: The majority of those memorable fuck-ups involved a female boss. The rush to recruit more women, to have x number of women on the board etc. has lead to a decrease in standards. It's not that women can't fulfil those roles but when none of the applicants are suitable but you have to select a woman well, the result is inevitable. And that's a problem for the women themselves who are often pressured into taking more responsibility than they are comfortable with. That leads to poor decision making, micro-management and declining staff relations. And ultimately, the career death of the boss themselves due to stress. Indeed, I've observed that the giveaway of such female managers is the need to assert dominance over everything even where it's completely unnecessary. So I can easily see how something like the Post Office scandal can occur where you have an over promoted female CEO presiding over an incoming disaster while shouting down anyone that dares raise a concern. I see it on a smaller scale quite regularly. I suppose I'm on the other side of the mirror. And there are definite reasons I've said it before. The Y chromosome creates muscle cells to develop differently and creates more cones than rods in the retina. The result is a triumph of power over dexterity and 3D colour vision over low light level fine detail As a direct result any man is put at a specific disadvantage in the life sciences where dexterity and squinting into dark places is part of the training and par for the course. Add to this a leaning women seem to have for these sciences as distinct from physical and theoretical ones and pretty quickly any bloke following my career is going to feel a bit outnumbered. It is what it is. But as a stark consequence women in those areas of research, development and endeavour are there not because some lefty twat decreed we need more of them but because they're good at the job And yes. I agree with you. The difference between for example the 1981 biochemical society meeting where every woman in the place was there because she was either already an acknowledged expert in the field or working to being one, versus well almost any woke driven endeavour of today where identifying as having a cervix whether you do or not is more important than having competence at the job is stark and soul destroying
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 3, 2024 9:53:58 GMT
Also, as a sort of response to Baron's response to Squeezed-Middle. I work in an industry that is literally swamped by wokeness - the Live Entertainment industry. Of all the people I have encountered in that industry my current boss, who is Female, is arguably the least woke person I have met. All The Best Anecdotal reportage is occasionally interesting, but rarely persuasive.
Can we get back to the vexing questions of hemlines and gendered fashion in classical antiquity, please? That seems to be a field in which you are a self-styled authority.
It's certainly an effective means of derailing a thread at least.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 3, 2024 10:01:07 GMT
Also, as a sort of response to Baron's response to Squeezed-Middle. I work in an industry that is literally swamped by wokeness - the Live Entertainment industry. Of all the people I have encountered in that industry my current boss, who is Female, is arguably the least woke person I have met. All The Best Anecdotal reportage is occasionally interesting, but rarely persuasive.
Can we get back to the vexing questions of hemlines and gendered fashion in classical antiquity, please? That seems to be a field in which you are a self-styled authority.
It's certainly an effective means of derailing a thread at least.
When you pay for my internet, and my time, you get to decide what I post. Until then, fuck off. All The Best
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