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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 28, 2022 4:45:57 GMT
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Dec 2, 2022 18:37:51 GMT
As someone who lived on a main London shopping street that went quiet soon after midnight ... until they changed the licensing laws (in 2003) and the street outside my flat became a noisy jungle of inebriated revellers and the occasional car was replaced by traffic jams, I tend to disagree with the London MP who welcomed the change by declaring that: "A vibrant night-time economy is the sign of a successful city".
Prior to this after my return to London from rural Wales in 1995 I summed up the change I observed in the daytime street life by saying: "There is no truth in the rumour that the government have passed a law compelling all young men out on the street during the day to carry a beer can".
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Post by totheleft3 on Dec 2, 2022 18:47:47 GMT
As someone don't knowlived on a main London shopping street that went quiet soon after midnight ... until they changed the licensing laws (in 2003) and the street outside my flat became a noisy jungle of inebriated revellers and the occasional car was replaced by traffic jams, I tend to disagree with the London MP who welcomed the change by declaring that: "A vibrant night-time economy is the sign of a successful city". Prior to this after my return to London from rural Wales in 1995 I summed up the change I observed in the daytime street life by saying: "There is no truth in the rumour that the government have passed a law compelling all young men out on the street during the day to carry a beer can". Yea there use to be by laws against drinkint on the streets dont know if they still do. if they do i wonder if there acted upon. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 3, 2022 11:01:59 GMT
A lawless society is the inevitable result of a left wing judiciary.
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Post by totheleft3 on Dec 3, 2022 11:16:36 GMT
A lawless society is theDo inevitable result of a left wing judiciary. How can the judicary be left wing when its been found indertutional racsist. Do you think the jubicary is leanant. When we have overcrowed prisions and the sentences have been increaing |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 3, 2022 15:38:30 GMT
"Institutional Racism" has been debunked as a nonsense but even if it weren't, it wouldn't be the exclusive preserve of the right wing. After all, the Labour Party has more than its share of anti-Semites.
And yes, the judiciary is way too lenient. It's starting to redress the balance now but it has a long way to go before it gets somewhere near sensible.
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Post by totheleft3 on Dec 3, 2022 16:14:10 GMT
What would you do to fix the over crowding of the prision service, surly that is a reason judges are reluctantly giving sort sentences.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 3, 2022 17:33:03 GMT
Initially, I'd send people to prison for longer. Then I'd remove many of the priveliges that they currently enjoy. I would implement a strict system of all staff and visitors being searched on entry and exit, to eliminate the smuggling of drugs and other contraband into prisons. I would not allow direct contact between inmates and visitors for the same reason.
This would make prison a place that few would want to return to and that, in and of itself, would in the long term reduce overcrowding.
Of course, we could simply build more prisons but I'd prefer to try my no cost option first.
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Post by totheleft3 on Dec 3, 2022 18:41:38 GMT
Longer prision sentence would of course had to the over population ,
Privileges what are these TV in there room ? Not so many have TV and they have to pay for such so called Privilege
Your already seacherd before before going into prision has a visitor.
I would seperate the convict and the visitor behind a glass wall and communication by telephone like they do in America.
I personally would not sentence first time offender for minor offences to prision .
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 3, 2022 19:30:10 GMT
Longer prision sentence would of course had to the over population... Not in the long term. I personally would not sentence first time offender for minor offences to prision . They don't. Nor on the 10th time, 20th time or even 30th time they're convicted. That excessive lenience is why we have such rates of recidivism - there is no deterrent. And prison is soft. My system would address those issues. At very little cost. |
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Post by dappy on Dec 4, 2022 10:01:10 GMT
Do you have any evidence to support your plan Squeezed.
You see the thing is we imprison far more people - especially relatively minor offenders - than anyone else in Europe yet get worse re-offending rates and hence more future victims of crime.
Netherlands - pretty much the only Western European country that mirrored our approach of locking loads of people up took a conscious decision to abandon that policy a few years ago. They sent far less people to prison and got less reoffending, reduced crime, less victims of crime and a significant net cost saving for the public purse that could be spent on say hospitals.
Rather than your well intentioned but I suspect evidence less knee jerk plan, wouldn’t we be better off copying somewhere else that has achieved good results.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 4, 2022 10:58:43 GMT
For your stats to be comparable you would need to relate sentencing to crime rate and crime types across the various countries.
Simply saying "We lock up more people" is meaningless.
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Post by dappy on Dec 4, 2022 11:23:26 GMT
Of course but our societies are similar and it is a reality that we sentence more people to prison for minor offences and then when released surprise surprise we have higher reoffending rates so more crime more victims of crime and hence more people being sentenced back to prison and the cycle begins again.
As far as I can see there is no evidence supporting your plan. If there is could you provide it.
On the other hand we have the example of the Netherlands which had similar density of population, similar crime rates for similar offences, similar culture and wealth levels and a similar approach to justice and locking people up. Until they actively changed policy, locked less people up, reduced reoffending, crime rates fell and they saved a lot of money. So why not copy their experience and the evidence suggests reduce the number of victims of crime while freeing up resources to spend on hospitals and schools.
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Post by Orac on Dec 4, 2022 13:31:06 GMT
The Left is typically very suspicious of the of criminality being severely punished.
I think this comes from the semi-subconscious acknowledgement that a society beset with criminality works generally in their favour by creating desperation and poverty.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 4, 2022 15:42:11 GMT
Of course but our societies are similar and it is a reality that we sentence more people to prison for minor offences and then when released surprise surprise we have higher reoffending rates so more crime more victims of crime and hence more people being sentenced back to prison and the cycle begins again. As far as I can see there is no evidence supporting your plan. If there is could you provide it. On the other hand we have the example of the Netherlands which had similar density of population, similar crime rates for similar offences, similar culture and wealth levels and a similar approach to justice and locking people up. Until they actively changed policy, locked less people up, reduced reoffending, crime rates fell and they saved a lot of money. So why not copy their experience and the evidence suggests reduce the number of victims of crime while freeing up resources to spend on hospitals and schools. So you say, yet you have produced no evidence for that.
Back in the 60s and 70s armed robbery was extremely popular with the criminal underclass.
So they started giving people 25 years for it and the rates of armed robbery plummeted.
Prison works.
Here you go:
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