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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 6, 2024 17:32:27 GMT
At the moment YouGov have the Tories just two points ahead of Reform UK, and with a month to go who knows, will Reform push the Tories into third place? And if they do, will Reforms success be due to the 'Farage' factor or are the Tories really that unpopular?
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Post by Bentley on Jun 6, 2024 17:34:52 GMT
The Tories are really that unpopular..imo.
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LL
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Post by LL on Jun 6, 2024 23:08:10 GMT
Nothing would make me happier at this point . Force the tories into becoming more ukippy and keep them out of power for a long time.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 6, 2024 23:27:52 GMT
At the moment YouGov have the Tories just two points ahead of Reform UK, and with a month to go who knows, will Reform push the Tories into third place?... I sincerely hope so, although I doubt that it will happen: The electorate would need to be brave enough to ditch the establishment LibLabCon and I'm not sure they're quite ready. I mean, let's face it: Any Labour government is likely to implode sooner rather than later and we'll need a sensible centre right party to pick up the pieces. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 7, 2024 2:05:16 GMT
At the moment YouGov have the Tories just two points ahead of Reform UK, and with a month to go who knows, will Reform push the Tories into third place?... I sincerely hope so, although I doubt that it will happen: The electorate would need to be brave enough to ditch the establishment LibLabCon and I'm not sure they're quite ready. I mean, let's face it: Any Labour government is likely to implode sooner rather than later and we'll need a sensible centre right party to pick up the pieces. I agree, it's unlikely. But even if Reform don't push the Tories into third place it's a massive wake up call to a party who until now were the most successful political party in the world. They have two choices: Continue down the path of centrist globalism and (like the EU) ignore their core voters, and in doing so become irrelevant. Or come back as a proper centre right Conservative party who represent Great Britain. I'm confident the Tories will regroup, Sunak was always a mistake but that's the past. Perhaps we need a couple of years of socialism to wake people up to reality, and I'll tell you what will wake people up, war. And thanks to woke and those clueless gen Z types who demonstrate in support of Hamas, I doubt we have ever been less prepared for it. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 7, 2024 2:10:36 GMT
Nothing would make me happier at this point . Force the tories into becoming more ukippy and keep them out of power for a long time. You think a pro EU, pro immigration, pro woke, pro net zero Labour government are going to be more popular than this shower? LOL, I doubt it but hey, lets see. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 7, 2024 6:41:23 GMT
At the moment YouGov have the Tories just two points ahead of Reform UK, and with a month to go who knows, will Reform push the Tories into third place?... I sincerely hope so, although I doubt that it will happen: The electorate would need to be brave enough to ditch the establishment LibLabCon and I'm not sure they're quite ready. I think that's probably true but there's absolutely no reason why people should be afraid to elect new party as the government. People seem to think that the politicians actually run the country- which of course they don't. The civil service run the country and they won't change, unfortunately. The politicians in government merely fight a losing battle trying to get the civil service to implement their policies. It's all described very accurately in Yes, Minister. There's no point in electing the Tories or Labour because they've demonstrated over many years that they completely ignore the voters' wishes. The Tories have basically purged their government of the Brexiteers and are in the process of blocking Leave candidates from the selection process, so a Tory govt would move us closer to the EU - undoing many years of hard work and probably splitting their party in the process. And labour will tear themselves apart very quickly if they got into power - Momentum will make sure of that. But Reform should be relatively united under Farage and Tice. I'm certainly voting Reform. |
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LL
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Post by LL on Jun 7, 2024 11:14:04 GMT
Nothing would make me happier at this point . Force the tories into becoming more ukippy and keep them out of power for a long time. You think a pro EU, pro immigration, pro woke, pro net zero Labour government are going to be more popular than this shower? LOL, I doubt it but hey, let’s see. Well there’s one thing for sure it definitely won’t be reform forming the next government lol. Incase you hadn’t noticed elections are won from the centre ground and the more the tories try to bring reform voters back the more they alienate the rest of the electorate. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 7, 2024 12:03:43 GMT
You think a pro EU, pro immigration, pro woke, pro net zero Labour government are going to be more popular than this shower? LOL, I doubt it but hey, let’s see. Well there’s one thing for sure it definitely won’t be reform forming the next government lol. Incase you hadn’t noticed elections are won from the centre ground and the more the tories try to bring reform voters back the more they alienate the rest of the electorate. That’s probably why Lefties call anyone who supports a nuclear family , doesn’t accept the myth of ‘ white privilege’,wants tighter border controls and doesn’t accept that Dave the scaffolder in a dress is a woman ‘ far right’ then . |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 7, 2024 14:03:57 GMT
I think that's probably true but there's absolutely no reason why people should be afraid to elect new party as the government. People seem to think that the politicians actually run the country- which of course they don't. The civil service run the country and they won't change, unfortunately. The politicians in government merely fight a losing battle trying to get the civil service to implement their policies. It's all described very accurately in Yes, Minister. There's no point in electing the Tories or Labour because they've demonstrated over many years that they completely ignore the voters' wishes. The Tories have basically purged their government of the Brexiteers and are in the process of blocking Leave candidates from the selection process, so a Tory govt would move us closer to the EU - undoing many years of hard work and probably splitting their party in the process. And labour will tear themselves apart very quickly if they got into power - Momentum will make sure of that. But Reform should be relatively united under Farage and Tice. I'm certainly voting Reform. Mostly agree. Although I do take issue with this old chestnut: ..The politicians in government merely fight a losing battle trying to get the civil service to implement their policies... Policy is just a wish list, turning it into reality is a whole different ball-game and often times the biggest impediment is the government themselves because the latest policy conflicts with an existing law, regulation or policy. The conversation goes thus: Government: “We want X” Civil Service: “Sorry, that's unlawful/against the existing regs/conflicts with your existing policy.” Government: “What can we do about it?” Civil Service: “Change the law/regs/existing policy.” Government: “Can't do that.” Civil Service: “Then neither can we.” Government: “It's all your fault.” And start again. And I've been there, seen it, done it time and again. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 7, 2024 14:33:04 GMT
I think that's probably true but there's absolutely no reason why people should be afraid to elect new party as the government. People seem to think that the politicians actually run the country- which of course they don't. The civil service run the country and they won't change, unfortunately. The politicians in government merely fight a losing battle trying to get the civil service to implement their policies. It's all described very accurately in Yes, Minister. There's no point in electing the Tories or Labour because they've demonstrated over many years that they completely ignore the voters' wishes. The Tories have basically purged their government of the Brexiteers and are in the process of blocking Leave candidates from the selection process, so a Tory govt would move us closer to the EU - undoing many years of hard work and probably splitting their party in the process. And labour will tear themselves apart very quickly if they got into power - Momentum will make sure of that. But Reform should be relatively united under Farage and Tice. I'm certainly voting Reform. Mostly agree. Although I do take issue with this old chestnut: ..The politicians in government merely fight a losing battle trying to get the civil service to implement their policies... Policy is just a wish list, turning it into reality is a whole different ball-game and often times the biggest impediment is the government themselves because the latest policy conflicts with an existing law, regulation or policy. The conversation goes thus: Government: “We want X” Civil Service: “Sorry, that's unlawful/against the existing regs/conflicts with your existing policy.” Government: “What can we do about it?” Civil Service: “Change the law/regs/existing policy.” Government: “Can't do that.” Civil Service: “Then neither can we.” Government: “It's all your fault.” And start again. And I've been there, seen it, done it time and again. Would I be right in saying it is similar to the Post Office's management team and their lawyers? |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 8, 2024 6:07:54 GMT
I think that's probably true but there's absolutely no reason why people should be afraid to elect new party as the government. People seem to think that the politicians actually run the country- which of course they don't. The civil service run the country and they won't change, unfortunately. The politicians in government merely fight a losing battle trying to get the civil service to implement their policies. It's all described very accurately in Yes, Minister. There's no point in electing the Tories or Labour because they've demonstrated over many years that they completely ignore the voters' wishes. The Tories have basically purged their government of the Brexiteers and are in the process of blocking Leave candidates from the selection process, so a Tory govt would move us closer to the EU - undoing many years of hard work and probably splitting their party in the process. And labour will tear themselves apart very quickly if they got into power - Momentum will make sure of that. But Reform should be relatively united under Farage and Tice. I'm certainly voting Reform. Mostly agree. Although I do take issue with this old chestnut: ..The politicians in government merely fight a losing battle trying to get the civil service to implement their policies... Policy is just a wish list, turning it into reality is a whole different ball-game and often times the biggest impediment is the government themselves because the latest policy conflicts with an existing law, regulation or policy. The conversation goes thus: Government: “We want X” Civil Service: “Sorry, that's unlawful/against the existing regs/conflicts with your existing policy.” Government: “What can we do about it?” Civil Service: “Change the law/regs/existing policy.” Government: “Can't do that.” Civil Service: “Then neither can we.” Government: “It's all your fault.” And start again. And I've been there, seen it, done it time and again. I'm sure that happens often, where you get a naive minister with ideas that are simply not compatible with existing legislation. In fact that's been put forward as one of the reasons why the civil service are so pro-EU. That's their trump card "Sorry it's against EU rules". However, there are also cases - as 'm sure you'll accept - when the CS simply don't want to do things because of their Left wing ideology. Usually they just scupper these kind of plans by "going slow", but recently they've become more militant. For example there has been talk of refusing to enact the Rwanda plans because they're against their charter - whatever that is. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 8, 2024 8:03:02 GMT
I'm sure that happens often, where you get a naive minister with ideas that are simply not compatible with existing legislation. In fact that's been put forward as one of the reasons why the civil service are so pro-EU. That's their trump card "Sorry it's against EU rules". However, there are also cases - as 'm sure you'll accept - when the CS simply don't want to do things because of their Left wing ideology. Usually they just scupper these kind of plans by "going slow", but recently they've become more militant. For example there has been talk of refusing to enact the Rwanda plans because they're against their charter - whatever that is. Ah, Rwanda is a prime example of what I'm talking about. The government had an 80 seat majority. They could have repealed the Human Rights Act but refused to do so. And now they expect the Civil Service to ignore it. Which of course they can't. The HRA is an impediment to deporting people. Change it and you don't have that problem. But the government would rather blame the Civil Service for the rules that the government themselves created. It's asshattery of the first order. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 8, 2024 18:40:07 GMT
I'm sure that happens often, where you get a naive minister with ideas that are simply not compatible with existing legislation. In fact that's been put forward as one of the reasons why the civil service are so pro-EU. That's their trump card "Sorry it's against EU rules". However, there are also cases - as 'm sure you'll accept - when the CS simply don't want to do things because of their Left wing ideology. Usually they just scupper these kind of plans by "going slow", but recently they've become more militant. For example there has been talk of refusing to enact the Rwanda plans because they're against their charter - whatever that is. Ah, Rwanda is a prime example of what I'm talking about. The government had an 80 seat majority. They could have repealed the Human Rights Act but refused to do so. And now they expect the Civil Service to ignore it. Which of course they can't. The HRA is an impediment to deporting people. Change it and you don't have that problem. But the government would rather blame the Civil Service for the rules that the government themselves created. It's asshattery of the first order. I used to be a contributor to Con Home about 2012 time. This was before the Brexit thing looked credible, but it was hotting up. I suggested to them that perhaps if they don't want to go the whole hog then it would be a reassuring thing to say we would leave the ECHR as a manifesto promise, hence it would cause Eurosceptics to treat the Cons seriously and avoid UKIP problems. Leaving the ECHR at that time was something some of their supporters were open to, but of course we had a Europhile government pretending and not actually executing any credible plan. We knew as far back as then that the ECHR was becoming political. Right of asylum back in the old days was reserved for those very special cases where say you had an opposition leader of a fascist state and he had to get out to save his life, not the billions who feel like a bit of first world luxury at our expense. Anyway, it is all too late now. Even the biggest of fools can see they had no intention of doing anything that stood any chance of working. They have voted for their own extinction. £5m's worth of top donors are walking away from what I heard the other day. |
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