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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 10, 2024 13:08:35 GMT
Indeed; but I do point out that sane and rational people tend to think of that as a BAD thing. Do you? All The Best Who are you to say that the "sane and rational people tend to think that is a BAD thing"? If you have a hen house it means you are trying to keep your hens safe. Putting a fox in there does the opposite. Ergo it IS a bad thing. I know it is hard for most Reform UK supporters, but a simple bit of logical, joined-up thinking goes a long, long way. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 10, 2024 13:10:44 GMT
Translation …we are moving back into the single market as slowly as it takes to make you believe we are not . But the Single Market was never really a problem. The Political Union was the problem. Having the former without the latter would be, IMO, the perfect solution to "Brexit"; I just can't see the EU letting us have that, because others would be encouraged to leave as well. All The Best |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 10, 2024 14:06:16 GMT
Translation …we are moving back into the single market as slowly as it takes to make you believe we are not . But the Single Market was never really a problem. The Political Union was the problem. Having the former without the latter would be, IMO, the perfect solution to "Brexit"; I just can't see the EU letting us have that, because others would be encouraged to leave as well. All The Best If it came with freedom of movement then it was a problem for some . |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 10, 2024 14:19:04 GMT
But the Single Market was never really a problem. The Political Union was the problem. Having the former without the latter would be, IMO, the perfect solution to "Brexit"; I just can't see the EU letting us have that, because others would be encouraged to leave as well. All The Best If it came with freedom of movement then it was a problem for some . Agree entirely. FoM for people has no place at all in Trade Deal; FoM of goods does. The Single Market broadly speaking was of benefit for the UK. The European Union was not; not least because FoM of people created far too many tension points: increased living costs, decreased job security and wage bargaining, excess pressure on public services and a rapid breakdown of social cohesion. But then a lot of the inward migration to the UK came from beyond EU borders, so both Labour and the Conservatives could have chosen to do something about it, they didn't. Since the Pandemic and Brexit EU based migration to the UK has fallen by 70%, yet still overall migration numbers go up. This was a deliberate policy choice by the Conservatives. All The Best |
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Post by see2 on Jul 10, 2024 14:20:15 GMT
They are busy outnumbering the opposition, and laying down a better future for the UK and all who live here  you dont outnumber the opposition. 80 % of the electorate oppose labour , two thirds of the vote , and Farage won the election for starmer on the dodgy fptp system. He took four million tory votes , and 42 % of the voters voted right wing parties , while labour got what........33.7 %? In scotland , the independence voters stayed at home and allowed labour to fall into place. Practically the whole of scotland now , bar a few seats , are marginals on flimsy vote shares for labour. lowest mandate of any government in modern history on the second lowest turnout can only be described as a pyrrhic victory for no mandate starmer. Im thoroughly looking forward to him and his pathetic team being under the spotlight , and forced to make decisions for the first time , instead of carping nonsense from the sidelines. What happened with the council houses? first test........starmers falls flat on his face. How we laughed. I just pity the poor buggers who went out daft enough to believe starmers tripe on housing. Empty slogans , ill thought out policy , and weak governance. Time to batten down the hatches for another terrifying bout of new labour dramatics. They outnumber all the other parties parties individually, that's why they are forming the government and those that you support are not. Defeat is a bitter pill for you to take, claiming 80% of the electorate (even if you only mean those that voted) if true, just how bad was the opposition. Every election / turnout varies according to the worries about the one expected to win the vote. In Starmer's case it was about how certain that the Tories would loose. As for the rest of your post I will just ignore your unproven ramblings straight from the Ale House. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 10, 2024 14:53:46 GMT
If it came with freedom of movement then it was a problem for some . Agree entirely. FoM for people has no place at all in Trade Deal; FoM of goods does. The Single Market broadly speaking was of benefit for the UK. The European Union was not; not least because FoM of people created far too many tension points: increased living costs, decreased job security and wage bargaining, excess pressure on public services and a rapid breakdown of social cohesion. But then a lot of the inward migration to the UK came from beyond EU borders, so both Labour and the Conservatives could have chosen to do something about it, they didn't. Since the Pandemic and Brexit EU based migration to the UK has fallen by 70%, yet still overall migration numbers go up. This was a deliberate policy choice by the Conservatives. All The Best Afaik FOM comes with the single market . The fact that immigration is still high even though we are out of the single market does not justify FOM as a price to go back in . |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 10, 2024 15:01:37 GMT
Agree entirely. FoM for people has no place at all in Trade Deal; FoM of goods does. The Single Market broadly speaking was of benefit for the UK. The European Union was not; not least because FoM of people created far too many tension points: increased living costs, decreased job security and wage bargaining, excess pressure on public services and a rapid breakdown of social cohesion. But then a lot of the inward migration to the UK came from beyond EU borders, so both Labour and the Conservatives could have chosen to do something about it, they didn't. Since the Pandemic and Brexit EU based migration to the UK has fallen by 70%, yet still overall migration numbers go up. This was a deliberate policy choice by the Conservatives. All The Best Afaik FOM comes with the single market . The fact that immigration is still high even though we are out of the single market does not justify FOM as a price to go back in .I agree entirely. FoM of people has been an unmitigated disaster for the UK, disproportionally affecting the least well-off, while significantly benefitting the much smaller most well-off demographic. You are correct, FoM was part of the original Single Market regulations - almost certainly put there to serve the interests of big business. Anyone else seeing the obvious pattern here? All The Best |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 10, 2024 15:03:51 GMT
Afaik FOM comes with the single market . The fact that immigration is still high even though we are out of the single market does not justify FOM as a price to go back in .I agree entirely. FoM of people has been an unmitigated disaster for the UK, disproportionally affecting the least well-off, while significantly benefitting the much smaller most well-off demographic. You are correct, FoM was part of the original Single Market regulations - almost certainly put there to serve the interests of big business. Anyone else seeing the obvious pattern here? All The Best I can see a pattern that I pointed out ..single market = FOM . |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 10, 2024 19:43:35 GMT
I agree entirely. FoM of people has been an unmitigated disaster for the UK, disproportionally affecting the least well-off, while significantly benefitting the much smaller most well-off demographic. You are correct, FoM was part of the original Single Market regulations - almost certainly put there to serve the interests of big business. Anyone else seeing the obvious pattern here? All The Best I can see a pattern that I pointed out ..single market = FOM . So, question. Why was FoM a complete non-issue during all of the Single Market phase, and the initial phase of the European Union, but became a (if not THE) major issue under the later phase of the European Union? Was it, perhaps, exacerbated by the more wide-spread adoption of neo-liberal globalist capitalism? All The Best |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 10, 2024 19:55:35 GMT
I can see a pattern that I pointed out ..single market = FOM . So, question. Why was FoM a complete non-issue during all of the Single Market phase, and the initial phase of the European Union, but became a (if not THE) major issue under the later phase of the European Union? Was it, perhaps, exacerbated by the more wide-spread adoption of neo-liberal globalist capitalism? All The Best FOM became a political football when it could be used as a weapon.
Putin keeps threatening to bring down the whole of the Western world by flooding it with migrants, he's a clever man, he knows once you throw a mixed bag of people in to different countries it's a recipe for disaster.
If Putin wants to Win the West, just carry on flooding it with migrants ... Job done.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 10, 2024 20:01:06 GMT
I can see a pattern that I pointed out ..single market = FOM . So, question. Why was FoM a complete non-issue during all of the Single Market phase, and the initial phase of the European Union, but became a (if not THE) major issue under the later phase of the European Union? Was it, perhaps, exacerbated by the more wide-spread adoption of neo-liberal globalist capitalism? All The Best Depends on who considered it an issue . In my experience it started to become an issue in factories and building sites about 2007. That was about the times I was seeing agency were starting to affect wages and conditions in factories and stories of Polish ( it was mostly Polish then ) cowboys undercutting our workers and stealing tools. I started seeing this echoed in politic rhetoric by UKIP . IMO this was never properly discussed by remainers. It was dismissed as racist and far right propaganda. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 10, 2024 22:22:38 GMT
So, question. Why was FoM a complete non-issue during all of the Single Market phase, and the initial phase of the European Union, but became a (if not THE) major issue under the later phase of the European Union? Was it, perhaps, exacerbated by the more wide-spread adoption of neo-liberal globalist capitalism? All The Best Depends on who considered it an issue . In my experience it started to become an issue in factories and building sites about 2007. That was about the times I was seeing agency were starting to affect wages and conditions in factories and stories of Polish ( it was mostly Polish then ) cowboys undercutting our workers and stealing tools. I started seeing this echoed in politic rhetoric by UKIP . IMO this was never properly discussed by remainers. It was dismissed as racist and far right propaganda. I'd agree. But we were in the Single Market LONG before 2007. So what happened in 2007 or just prior that made it become an issue where previously it wasn't? All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 10, 2024 22:24:12 GMT
So, question. Why was FoM a complete non-issue during all of the Single Market phase, and the initial phase of the European Union, but became a (if not THE) major issue under the later phase of the European Union? Was it, perhaps, exacerbated by the more wide-spread adoption of neo-liberal globalist capitalism? All The Best FOM became a political football when it could be used as a weapon.
Putin keeps threatening to bring down the whole of the Western world by flooding it with migrants, he's a clever man, he knows once you throw a mixed bag of people in to different countries it's a recipe for disaster.
If Putin wants to Win the West, just carry on flooding it with migrants ... Job done.
Well, Western Democracies have been on their death beds for at least all of my lifetime, and they are still here. So not too worried about naive, fearmongering rhetoric to be honest. All The Best |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 10, 2024 22:48:40 GMT
Depends on who considered it an issue . In my experience it started to become an issue in factories and building sites about 2007. That was about the times I was seeing agency were starting to affect wages and conditions in factories and stories of Polish ( it was mostly Polish then ) cowboys undercutting our workers and stealing tools. I started seeing this echoed in politic rhetoric by UKIP . IMO this was never properly discussed by remainers. It was dismissed as racist and far right propaganda. I'd agree. But we were in the Single Market LONG before 2007. So what happened in 2007 or just prior that made it become an issue where previously it wasn't? All The Best It was the expansion of the EU into poorer countries that changed everything, until then FOM had been restricted to countries of roughly equal economies. Once economic disparity between countries grew greater then the richer countries received an influx of those seeking better pay and conditions for the same level of work. That is why areas became changed almost overnight. Many people accepted slow change but rapid change raises the hackles and this was easy to see as to what was happening. Change over 20 years is a progression, the same change in two years is an imposition. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 11, 2024 7:02:18 GMT
Who are you to say that the "sane and rational people tend to think that is a BAD thing"? If you have a hen house it means you are trying to keep your hens safe. Putting a fox in there does the opposite. Ergo it IS a bad thing. I know it is hard for most Reform UK supporters, but a simple bit of logical, joined-up thinking goes a long, long way. All The Best Okay, let's clarify. A fox in the henhouse is bad for chickens. Farage in Parliament is good for Britain. |
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