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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 3, 2024 12:58:55 GMT
5- 10 years ago if you wanted to go from London to Bristol, your cheap train tickets could be purchased at about £12 each way, or if none of those were available, you would be able to get a ticket for at least under £20. If you wanted to go National Express it was nearly always £33 return and if you shopped around you might get a smaller company to do it for £30. Buses sometimes had premotions, but realistically someone doing regular journeys would not find any great difference in price. The problem with travelling by coach though was they did not have toilets so they would do stop-offs for periods and go around the houses a bit, meaning a London to Bristol journey by coach was twice the time of a train. The problem for trains is unless you wanted to pay £30 each way, you were pretty restricted to times and likely only manage one or two times you can travel cheaply, which can inconvenience your schedule.
The same journey today is quite different for a number of reasons. First of all you can travel Heathrow to Bristol by bus and it takes one hour 50 minutes, and if you travel Bristol to Slough by train it is one hour 49 minutes. Slough is about 5m from Heathrow, so speedwise you can see there is a rough match. The problem with the train is you have to switch trains at Reading, and on some journeys there are two changes so it takes longer than 1:49m. Taking all of this into account and the places you depart and arrive at regarding waiting room facilities, one could argue the bus has a slight advantage so far. However what pushes the bus option far in front of the train option is second you have far more times and companies you can travel via and the first factor of importance is the price. A bus will cost you £5 and a train £36-40 for a single. The price of bus travel is now entering mass market economies of scale and competition where the trains have priced themselves out of the market for all by the Rees Moggs who are ever-so pretentious and get the ticket paid for on expenses. They will be museum pieces.
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 3, 2024 17:17:18 GMT
With various railcards that almost anyone can have train fares are reasonable as far as Im concerned . the train is a bit more comfotable you can walk about if you want to and the bogs are usually OK as opposed to the chemical portaloo on the coach . Depends on your route I suppose and the times you need to hit for onward travel or work stuff but yes Im a fan of the train.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 3, 2024 17:49:43 GMT
With various railcards that almost anyone can have train fares are reasonable as far as Im concerned . the train is a bit more comfotable you can walk about if you want to and the bogs are usually OK as opposed to the chemical portaloo on the coach . Depends on your route I suppose and the times you need to hit for onward travel or work stuff but yes Im a fan of the train. Do you see what the problem is for train companies? It is now significantly cheaper to go by bus than it is to travel by car or train. This means more people will use the bus, so the bus lays on more routes and the train less. You see with buses anyone can buy and run a bus. trains are unionised labour which is unreliable and demanding more and more pay and better working conditions at the threat of shutting the network down. That's a lot harder to do with buses. |
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 3, 2024 21:13:18 GMT
Trains are easier for me ,1/3 off fares with railcard and in the main are reliable .Maybe little cheaper on bus but you get what you pay for , cost isnt the biggest factor for me
Not worried about strikes as long as we get notice which we do ,I really can't see a scenario where I would rather go on a bus
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 3, 2024 22:28:17 GMT
With various railcards that almost anyone can have train fares are reasonable as far as Im concerned . the train is a bit more comfotable you can walk about if you want to and the bogs are usually OK as opposed to the chemical portaloo on the coach . Depends on your route I suppose and the times you need to hit for onward travel or work stuff but yes Im a fan of the train. Do you see what the problem is for train companies? It is now significantly cheaper to go by bus than it is to travel by car or train. This means more people will use the bus, so the bus lays on more routes and the train less. You see with buses anyone can buy and run a bus. trains are unionised labour which is unreliable and demanding more and more pay and better working conditions at the threat of shutting the network down. That's a lot harder to do with buses. I don't see the two as direct competitors Maybe I should, but I don't For a start buses are stuck at 20 in any town west of offas dyke and 50-60 at best on motorways. Trains get you directly into town centres a bloody sight faster You say 'anyone can buy a bus' but actually running a service costs a bloody fortune and no, 'anyone' can't or won't be allowed to thanks to transport 'commissioners' Stalin would be proud of And while the 'normal' fare from say Newport to Blackpool is £130 - £150 for a couple with a two together Railcard that gives 30% off, split ticketing sites can get you there some days for £43.50 for two |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 4, 2024 10:38:21 GMT
Do you see what the problem is for train companies? It is now significantly cheaper to go by bus than it is to travel by car or train. This means more people will use the bus, so the bus lays on more routes and the train less. You see with buses anyone can buy and run a bus. trains are unionised labour which is unreliable and demanding more and more pay and better working conditions at the threat of shutting the network down. That's a lot harder to do with buses. I don't see the two as direct competitors Maybe I should, but I don't For a start buses are stuck at 20 in any town west of offas dyke and 50-60 at best on motorways. Trains get you directly into town centres a bloody sight faster You say 'anyone can buy a bus' but actually running a service costs a bloody fortune and no, 'anyone' can't or won't be allowed to thanks to transport 'commissioners' Stalin would be proud of And while the 'normal' fare from say Newport to Blackpool is £130 - £150 for a couple with a two together Railcard that gives 30% off, split ticketing sites can get you there some days for £43.50 for two You just illiterate another problem with trains. If it costs £43.50 then why are the cunts charging some people 344% more?
The trains are just charging stupid money for a service which is totally shit and hardly ever on time. I always used to travel by train, but the stress of being ripped off 344% if I don't do the right procedure is infuriating. Some cunt on the radio was saying oh but if you book 3 months before you can get a cheap ticket as well. These people are out of their skulls. These annoyances have been deliberately incorporated into the service. The whole game of buying a cheap ticket is like playing the fucking lottery. I want to pay one price for one journey and know that there will be transport when I need to go. In the old days it was simple, where you just pay cash at the till and got a standard ticket. Now the web is going to waste a good half an hour of your time just working out the right combination. Indeed this is the rip off game they play where they make out it is only £43.50, but when you actually book a real ticket to fit your schedule they only have tickets over 3X the cost.
It's a all smoke and mirrors, so for this reason I've quit the train now and don't get half as stressed using as bus. If you get a bus to Heathrow you can then use the underground for the navigation around London. The buses are rarely slowed down by 20mph because when going from city to city they are on main roads up to the bus station. If you are located in the centre of most cities then you can get to your destination in many ways, like walk, local bus, tram, taxi, uber, someone picking you up and so on.
One other difference is trains repeat Nazi messages about social control issues on the speakers. It makes the journey feel like you are in one of their Nazi prisons. Indeed everything about the service makes you think that your wishes, likes and dislikes as a customer are of no consequence to them. They are a dictatorship.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 4, 2024 14:38:30 GMT
Baron, the answer to your first point is that prices vary by demand and what the companies think they can rip people off for
I discovered this completely by accident
I secured a contract in the late 1990’s in Maidenhead, for a client whose buildings you could piss on through the broken window of the gents in Maidenhead Railway station
A day return rail ticket for peak time travel in both directions from Newport to London Paddington platform 8 on what was then GWR cost a three figure sum.
A day return rail ticket for a seat on the same train at thecsame time but only as far as Reading cost less than forty.
A day return ticket allowing any time including peak time travel to and from Reading and Maidenhead, riding a ‘Cross Country’ train company service that ran from Oxford to London Paddington platform 15 cost ten quid
In the morning i would get off at Reading, nip into Greggs or whatever, grab a coffee and get back to the platform in time for the connection to Maidenhead. In the evening the return service arrived at Reading 15 minutes before the Newport train. There was a gate from the station opening straight into a pub. This was before the era of full ticket barriers. I got off the London train and had a leisurely pint before going back to catch tbe train home.
Bliss
But this set me thinking
The Oxford to London train charged nearly sixty quid for a ticket from Reading to London Paddington. Same as GWR did.
But only a tenner from Reading to Maidenhead. And only 15 from Maidenhead to London Paddington
Off peak were also cheaper pro rata
So when i needed to visit a client in London i bought a GWR ticket to Reading, then TWO tickets one from Reading to Maidenhead, and another from Maidenhead to London
Three journeys, two on the same train, with one change and time for coffee
The £150(ish) price is to drive from newport to park a car free in Cwmbran station (saving £20 parking in the newport BR car park), get on a train at Cwmbran to go to Newport, change there for a train from Newport to Preston and change there for Blackpool
The £43 ticket(s) involve travelling off peak, staying on the cwmbran train as far as Lydney, then getting a slightly slower train from there through the forest of Dean to Manchester Picadilly and changing there to i believe a north east rail service to ton-a
We’re off to Blackpool for the illuminations, arriving on a friday afrernoon, fri I’m in no great hurry, my wife LIKES train travel and i’ve got a kindle, a very nice person brings a trolley with beer wine and so on at prices between pubs and ryanair’s and so itvworks for me
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 4, 2024 17:36:06 GMT
Baron, the answer to your first point is that prices vary by demand and what the companies think they can rip people off for I discovered this completely by accident I secured a contract in the late 1990’s in Maidenhead, for a client whose buildings you could piss on through the broken window of the gents in Maidenhead Railway station A day return rail ticket for peak time travel in both directions from Newport to London Paddington platform 8 on what was then GWR cost a three figure sum. A day return rail ticket for a seat on the same train at thecsame time but only as far as Reading cost less than forty. A day return ticket allowing any time including peak time travel to and from Reading and Maidenhead, riding a ‘Cross Country’ train company service that ran from Oxford to London Paddington platform 15 cost ten quid In the morning i would get off at Reading, nip into Greggs or whatever, grab a coffee and get back to the platform in time for the connection to Maidenhead. In the evening the return service arrived at Reading 15 minutes before the Newport train. There was a gate from the station opening straight into a pub. This was before the era of full ticket barriers. I got off the London train and had a leisurely pint before going back to catch tbe train home. Bliss But this set me thinking The Oxford to London train charged nearly sixty quid for a ticket from Reading to London Paddington. Same as GWR did. But only a tenner from Reading to Maidenhead. And only 15 from Maidenhead to London Paddington Off peak were also cheaper pro rata So when i needed to visit a client in London i bought a GWR ticket to Reading, then TWO tickets one from Reading to Maidenhead, and another from Maidenhead to London Three journeys, two on the same train, with one change and time for coffee The £150(ish) price is to drive from newport to park a car free in Cwmbran station (saving £20 parking in the newport BR car park), get on a train at Cwmbran to go to Newport, change there for a train from Newport to Preston and change there for Blackpool The £43 ticket(s) involve travelling off peak, staying on the cwmbran train as far as Lydney, then getting a slightly slower train from there through the forest of Dean to Manchester Picadilly and changing there to i believe a north east rail service to ton-a We’re off to Blackpool for the illuminations, arriving on a friday afrernoon, fri I’m in no great hurry, my wife LIKES train travel and i’ve got a kindle, a very nice person brings a trolley with beer wine and so on at prices between pubs and ryanair’s and so itvworks for me What I noticed in the old days was it was far more logical and what you would expect from a market like that. If I wanted to travel Buckinghamshire to Manchester I seem to recall the train was something like twice the speed of the bus so the bus was about 25% cheaper, so you get what you pay for there, and then the car for a single person would cost roughly what a train cost and get you there is roughly the same time, and for me the only thing that swung the decision between drive and train was how much stuff I needed to carry. This was when I lived in two places at once.
What I'm observing now is if you want to get the bus from Bristol to Victoria you can book at the same price on the morning you are due to leave. You get a bus travelling every 15m and all day you can get a ticket for 6 quid including booking fee. The booking process is simple, as per state journey and time, pay by credit card and then you just get a code which you need to get on the bus.
At a railway station you have to screw about and often queue to use a ticket machine and punch your code in there to get your tickets if you are lucky enough to have a machine that works and reads your card. The bus firms now tend to have automatic ticket machines at the stations with contactless card readers so you can just walk in and buy a ticket for a bus leaving in 15m. For me the whole process is just so much easier, cheaper and less to go wrong. I never used to use the bus due to the time it took and the buses used to give me headaches, but I find the modern ones as comfortable as trains. You can sit where you like and often get a double seat to yourself. In fact it was the combination of all those strikes and the massive hiking in price that persuaded me to break a habit of a lifetime. I've always liked the train until recent times.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 4, 2024 18:31:48 GMT
BvL, slight digression but relevant if you're into this sort of thing. Anyone who has an interest in post war British Railways should read an excellent volume entitled 'The Great Railway Conspiracy' by David Henshaw. [1994] It's an extremely interesting and revealing read on the plight of the railways from the early 1950's...
Synopsis:
This volume throws new light on the manner in which Britain's railways were "stitched up" by powerful political interests in the roads lobby during the 1960s and 1970s. Although commentators had referred before to the manner in which road transport was able to exert political pressure to gain supremacy, David Henshaw uncovered important new evidence giving a clearer picture of the true extent of the web of intrigue and deception which was spun. Crucially, however, the author found that some of the documents which might have proved particularly interesting had disappeared from public records - a fact he found tempting to link with his general conclusions. Now, Henshaw smells the whiff of more dark Government deeds, apparently calculated further to enhance the supremacy of road transport over rail. In 32 new additional pages, this book draws parallels between the actions of the present Government and that of its predecessor that masterminded the Beeching closure policy. Its conclusions should interest those who believe that rail transport offers the best and least environmentally damaging solutions to the present transport crisis. The original text is also comprehensively updated. This book should be of interest to railway enthusiasts and those with an interest in transport matters and politics generally. For the ardent train buff, David Henshaw's collection of photographs provides a record of some of the locomotives and trains which disappeared during the Beeching years.
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Post by wassock on Jun 4, 2024 20:09:35 GMT
Due to strikes, bus replacement service, and lateness, myself and the girlfriend avoid trains.
We went to Salou, did the train to Barcelona, then flew to Paris, used their trains. Everything brilliant. Got back to Manchester, train home was late. At the connection, the next train was abruptly cancelled. Much confusion later, a replacement train appeared.
So when it comes to trains, I use one about five years, if that. Nationalised and privatised, our train service is crap.
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