justice at last .

And that judge ruled in error following errors by the PSNI as has later been ruled (by Hallett).  So while Downey can't be tried he can be sued (and is so being) and no one can use those letters to claim immunity from prosecutions arising from reconsideration of the evidence or new evidence that allows prosecutions to occur. 

You mean apart from 

• The article not saying they were pardons - just like I said
• The article referring to Downey as a one off case - just like I said
• The article saying the letters were under legal review - just like I said (and of course that legal review ruled they were neither amnesties or pardons

I said nothing about whether the letters were a good or bad move.

I don't know why you bother with the three anti English anti British arseholes; it is highly unlikely that they do not understand why the British Army were sent into NI in the first place.

They were sent in to protect the Catholic Community from attacks by Loyalists, the Catholics has been discriminated against for years, the Army was welcomed by them, but the IRA seized the opportunity to target them as well as the RUC, and Prison Officers. I remember the three very young squaddies who off duty and unarmed who went for a pint and were lured into a quite spot by a woman and all three were shot dead.

The Army and the RUC were the only ones that had to comply with the Rules of Engagement, the IRA and the Loyalist Paramilitaries had no fecking rules, the Army and RUC took on the gunmen no matter who they were, they took prisoners the IRA did not nor did the Loyalists any Squaddie taken by the IRA were tortured before being executed.

Anyone they thought maybe informing on them same thing, to this day many bodies have not been found, their families cannot lay them to rest, no justice for them, 


If any of them had actually been to the aftermath of a car bombing has seen the bits of bodies all over the place and had to tell their relatives once they could be eventually identified no open coffins, they would really understand how ruthless the IRA and Loyalist were, and they have not gone away, the Bigots on both sides are just not active some are still targeting the PSNI, and anyone connected with the Crown.

I could say more but I best not OSA

The IRA only came to the table because the Security Services and Military Intelligence, Special Branch had infiltrated the IRA from the top to the bottom, they knew virtually every move they made, as for Blair the warmonger he tried and failed to look as if he had won the peace, the Peace process was started by two women years before he was PM, Maggie Thatcher and Mo Mowlam they started the peace process.

Steve does not even understand how our Courts work that the charges were withdrawn as the case again the suspect charged with the Hyde Park Bomb had not got through the Magistrates Court what a load of crap, the CPS can withdraw charges at any time they like, even in the middle of a trial  


Ater reading to sheer crap the three arseholes have posted in here I for one will not respond to Steve, TotheLeft, and Dappy, they don't live in the real world, I have found another rather pleasant Forum with mature adults that enjoy debate and actually do know what they are on about, I may still post in here but will not respond three muppets      



    

  
      



      

Whether you choose to post on this forum or not Handyman is of course up to you. If you are more comfortable in your echo chamber elsewhere, post there. It’s a free country.

You are quite right the the IRA the UDF and the splinter groups were violent unpleasant lawless groups. We were the forces of law and order. Their crimes do not justify or excuse our crimes like shooting an unarmed man in the back and, far worse covering it up. It’s no wonder we lost the confidence and support of the Catholic community.

Thatcher had a limited role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland. John Major though should and does get much of the credit. We were lucky that at the critical moment , we had good politicians - Mowlem , Bertie Aherne, George Mitchell and the chemistry between McGuiness and Paisley were all critical to the peace agreement and it’s successful implementation afterwards. But the truth is - inconvenient for some on this forum - the peace would absolutely not have been achieved without the political skills and charisma of Blair at the peak of his powers.

Let us be clear - supporting and excusing unlawful killings by people representing the British state and worse still excusing their cover up is not pro British. It is the diametric opposite. Such behaviour is against the very essence of the values our country stands for. It is right that justice is now being done albeit far far too late.

So you agree I was right to say they were not pardons and I was right to say there was a single unique exception to the principle that the letters did not prevent charges being brought.

Maybe you don't understand the MASSIVE difference between a pardon and either early release or an assurance that as of a certain date an individual wasn't being sought.

Well I do.

In this sad case of David Holden he had the chance to plead guilty in 1988, he chose not to despite knowing he was grossly negligent in pulling the trigger of a gun knowing it was pointed at an unarmed person who died.  Had he done so this case would have been long behind him and the relatives of the victim would long have had closure.

His choices.  

The bottom line is that as a result of often messy and undesirable compromises, there has been an imperfect peace in Northern ireland for the last quarter century.  No doubt many lives have been saved and many many lives improved as a result.  Blair's greatest achievement in my view (and very possibly John Major's for his part too)

You are correct Thomas; the pardons were signed by the late Queen it was discussed at length in the Commons back in 2014 here is just one account in media back then


IRA terrorists were among hundreds of people in Northern Ireland to receive royal pardons signed by the Queen, MPs were told yesterday.



Northern Ireland Secretary Theresa Villiers revealed that the royal prerogative of mercy was exercised in the province at least 365 times between 1979 and 2002.



The true total will be much higher, since the Northern Ireland Office claims records for the ten-year period between 1987 and 1997 have gone missing.



Critics now say there appears to have been a ‘cover-up’ over the use of amnesties, issued by the Queen on the advice of ministers. The bulk of the cases – 347 – from the period 1979 to 1986 are non-terrorism related and predate the peace process.



A number are thought to have been handed to loyalist and republican ‘super-grasses’ who gave key evidence at court cases during the Troubles.



However, it is believed that around 10 per cent of the earlier pardons – and the majority of those issued under Tony Blair’s government between 1997 and 2002 – did relate to terror offences.



In this period, royal pardons were granted to escaped IRA terrorists as part of the Northern Ireland peace deal. Among those to benefit were Angelo Fusco, Paul Patrick Magee and Robert Campbell who were convicted for their part in the murder of SAS Captain Herbert Westmacott but were among a group who escaped from a north Belfast jail in June 1981.



Former Labour minister Kate Hoey, who uncovered the pardon figures via Parliamentary questions, suggested the Queen had been put in an ‘invidious’ position. ‘I want to know who all these people are. I think that the public will want to know,’ she said.



She asked why the pardons had apparently not been listed in official government journals, the Belfast Gazette or the London Gazette, as would normally be the case.





Miss Hoey also insisted that the Government must explain how a decade of records covering a key period, during which John Major’s administration was advancing the peace process, could have vanished.

As far as I am aware no such Pardons were offered to former NI Police Officers or former Squaddies who are suspected of committing criminal offences during the troubles,