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Post by dodgydave on Apr 24, 2024 13:05:14 GMT
Again, so if I bumped into your daughter on the train you would be happy for me to touch her and make sexual comments? You wouldn't want polite conversation to see if she was interested, you wouldn't want a date to arranged? lol. NO WOMEN ON A TRAIN is looking for sex you complete moron! I've met women in all sorts of places. Maybe you have not lived. You should have seen what it was like on the night bus at about 2:30 am on a Saturday night in Manchester as it was before we had this fascist state. I'm sure the woke today would be utterly shocked. I say we should no t be dictated to by such cretins. There were plenty of women looking for sex in the past. That's why we are here. Yeah ok. Are you seriously telling us that your "pulling technique" was to touch up ladies on a night bus and make sexual comments towards them and they then became putty in your hands? What did you do if they said no, crack on anyway because they were "asking for it"? This case was clearly unwanted attention, demonstrated by the fact fellow passengers were telling him to leave her alone!
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Post by Orac on Apr 24, 2024 13:30:27 GMT
It looks like a candidate for the dreaded "unofficial enforcement" - this used to be a feature of our society when men had a bit of an unwritten code and could expect societal support for it to be maintained.
Like everything else, this has all been washed down the ideological toilet along with any recognition of family or being a good neighbour
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 24, 2024 13:42:34 GMT
I've met women in all sorts of places. Maybe you have not lived. You should have seen what it was like on the night bus at about 2:30 am on a Saturday night in Manchester as it was before we had this fascist state. I'm sure the woke today would be utterly shocked. I say we should no t be dictated to by such cretins. There were plenty of women looking for sex in the past. That's why we are here. Yeah ok. Are you seriously telling us that your "pulling technique" was to touch up ladies on a night bus and make sexual comments towards them and they then became putty in your hands? What did you do if they said no, crack on anyway because they were "asking for it"? This case was clearly unwanted attention, demonstrated by the fact fellow passengers were telling him to leave her alone! The fellow passengers are not the ones who decide on his punishment. We don't have any evidence he touched these women at all. What I'm trying to point out to you is you are a sucker for the hype and don't even consider the possibility this chap might have been stitched up.
Also we have this issue of whether it is wanted or not. How do you know if it is wanted unless you try? He may well have thought it was wanted and then after all the crap he decided it was unwanted and then went looking for other women to see if they wanted it. Remember it can only be a crime if it is what they call premeditated and that it can be proved so as to exclude all reasonable doubt. If he had a proper defence lawyer rather than a second prosecution lawyer as it usually is in our corrupt legal system then he might well have got off it due to lack of proof. A sharp barrister cross examining witnesses could have saved 20 months in prison. The chances are in practice the people there were racially prejudiced and thought he was a sex attacker because he was black. I mean lets suppose he was not black but a respectable city gent who was public school educated and had a top lawyer. I very much doubt they would be able to mount a successful prosecution in this case and may not even try. The term used is does the face fit. His face fitted the crime in the minds of the corrupt.
The truth is the law sucks and the Daily Mail is a bitch.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 24, 2024 13:48:13 GMT
It looks like a candidate for the dreaded "unofficial enforcement" - this used to be a feature of our society when men had a bit of an unwritten code and could expect societal support for it to be maintained. Like everything else, this has all been washed down the ideological toilet along with any recognition of family or being a good neighbour Africans come from an entirely different culture than do the English. What is socially acceptable in one culture often isn't in another. It even varies between class. Much confusion can result, but never call the Feds. They are on nobodies' side but their own. You call the Feds on one of your people and sure enough they will call the Feds on you!
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Post by dodgydave on Apr 26, 2024 0:23:22 GMT
Yeah ok. Are you seriously telling us that your "pulling technique" was to touch up ladies on a night bus and make sexual comments towards them and they then became putty in your hands? What did you do if they said no, crack on anyway because they were "asking for it"? This case was clearly unwanted attention, demonstrated by the fact fellow passengers were telling him to leave her alone! The fellow passengers are not the ones who decide on his punishment. We don't have any evidence he touched these women at all. What I'm trying to point out to you is you are a sucker for the hype and don't even consider the possibility this chap might have been stitched up.
Also we have this issue of whether it is wanted or not. How do you know if it is wanted unless you try? He may well have thought it was wanted and then after all the crap he decided it was unwanted and then went looking for other women to see if they wanted it. Remember it can only be a crime if it is what they call premeditated and that it can be proved so as to exclude all reasonable doubt. If he had a proper defence lawyer rather than a second prosecution lawyer as it usually is in our corrupt legal system then he might well have got off it due to lack of proof. A sharp barrister cross examining witnesses could have saved 20 months in prison. The chances are in practice the people there were racially prejudiced and thought he was a sex attacker because he was black. I mean lets suppose he was not black but a respectable city gent who was public school educated and had a top lawyer. I very much doubt they would be able to mount a successful prosecution in this case and may not even try. The term used is does the face fit. His face fitted the crime in the minds of the corrupt.
The truth is the law sucks and the Daily Mail is a bitch.
This is the man you are attempting to defend... he is FIFTHY YEARS OLD btw. www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/hillingdon-man-who-sexually-assaulted-18477392He has been previously jailed for making sexual suggestions to a 14 YEAR OLD GIRL on a bus, then telling another women he wanted to have sex with her. He tried it on with a work colleague then when she rebuffed him he went after her teenage relative. In the incident you linked, he got on a train and harassed a women FOR 50 MINUTES, during which time two passengers tried to intervene, and one even sat next to her to offer support. He then assaulted her as he got off the train. Is it "cultural" for a 50 year old to pester a 14 year old girl for sex, is it culture to spit in the face of police officers? lol.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 26, 2024 1:44:10 GMT
The fellow passengers are not the ones who decide on his punishment. We don't have any evidence he touched these women at all. What I'm trying to point out to you is you are a sucker for the hype and don't even consider the possibility this chap might have been stitched up.
Also we have this issue of whether it is wanted or not. How do you know if it is wanted unless you try? He may well have thought it was wanted and then after all the crap he decided it was unwanted and then went looking for other women to see if they wanted it. Remember it can only be a crime if it is what they call premeditated and that it can be proved so as to exclude all reasonable doubt. If he had a proper defence lawyer rather than a second prosecution lawyer as it usually is in our corrupt legal system then he might well have got off it due to lack of proof. A sharp barrister cross examining witnesses could have saved 20 months in prison. The chances are in practice the people there were racially prejudiced and thought he was a sex attacker because he was black. I mean lets suppose he was not black but a respectable city gent who was public school educated and had a top lawyer. I very much doubt they would be able to mount a successful prosecution in this case and may not even try. The term used is does the face fit. His face fitted the crime in the minds of the corrupt.
The truth is the law sucks and the Daily Mail is a bitch.
This is the man you are attempting to defend... he is FIFTHY YEARS OLD btw. www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/hillingdon-man-who-sexually-assaulted-18477392He has been previously jailed for making sexual suggestions to a 14 YEAR OLD GIRL on a bus, then telling another women he wanted to have sex with her. He tried it on with a work colleague then when she rebuffed him he went after her teenage relative. In the incident you linked, he got on a train and harassed a women FOR 50 MINUTES, during which time two passengers tried to intervene, and one even sat next to her to offer support. He then assaulted her as he got off the train. Is it "cultural" for a 50 year old to pester a 14 year old girl for sex, is it culture to spit in the face of police officers? lol. Well I'm not complimenting him on his tact, his manner and nor his intelligence and observational abilities. He seems rather keen to go around chatting up women. I have no idea about his personal life and why he is as he is, but I'm trying to work out what he did which was illegal rather than just being annoying or stupid etc. You can't just go around banning people up because you don't like the way they behave towards you. I've had loads of shit remarks from people over the years. Should they have gone to prison too? They tell us at one time he was threatening violence, but going on all the other shit we observe, we have to wonder to what degree. For example if I was having an argument with a woman who was insulting me or being mean and i turned around and called her a bitch, like I said well fuck off then you bitch, does that count as threatening violence, or are we talking a knife against the throat. You see when they report these things we really don't know what the heck they are on about given the ultra broad use of these terms. The guy just might be lonely and looking for people to talk to. London is a hideously anti-social place and so too is Reading. If he has simply been shafted by the Feds he certainly would not be the first. Prisons are full of those faces that fitted the crime, like standing in the wrong place at the wrong time is an offence if you are very low IQ. Then again he might be a really dangerous person for all I know. It's just not one thing reported so far makes me think that. There is nothing that clinches it, like say he got a long knife out and waved it around, then I would see the likelihood of a fair cop.
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Post by Equivocal on Apr 26, 2024 4:24:49 GMT
You see when they report these things we really don't know what the heck they are on about given the ultra broad use of these terms. The guy just might be lonely and looking for people to talk to. London is a hideously anti-social place and so too is Reading. If he has simply been shafted by the Feds he certainly would not be the first. Prisons are full of those faces that fitted the crime, like standing in the wrong place at the wrong time is an offence if you are very low IQ. Then again he might be a really dangerous person for all I know. It's just not one thing reported so far makes me think that. There is nothing that clinches it, like say he got a long knife out and waved it around, then I would see the likelihood of a fair cop.
A TRAIN passenger has been jailed after making inappropriate comments towards a female passenger before touching her thighs.
Prosecuting the case, barrister Alice Aubrey-Fletcher explained Junior, who is a registered sex offender, had sat opposite the victim on the journey and said comments such as: “You’re beautiful,” and “Let me lick your p****”.
He then put his hands between her legs and thighs before later grabbing his crotch, talking about his penis and pushing his hips towards her.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 26, 2024 10:53:07 GMT
You see when they report these things we really don't know what the heck they are on about given the ultra broad use of these terms. The guy just might be lonely and looking for people to talk to. London is a hideously anti-social place and so too is Reading. If he has simply been shafted by the Feds he certainly would not be the first. Prisons are full of those faces that fitted the crime, like standing in the wrong place at the wrong time is an offence if you are very low IQ. Then again he might be a really dangerous person for all I know. It's just not one thing reported so far makes me think that. There is nothing that clinches it, like say he got a long knife out and waved it around, then I would see the likelihood of a fair cop.
A TRAIN passenger has been jailed after making inappropriate comments towards a female passenger before touching her thighs.
Prosecuting the case, barrister Alice Aubrey-Fletcher explained Junior, who is a registered sex offender, had sat opposite the victim on the journey and said comments such as: “You’re beautiful,” and “Let me lick your p****”.
He then put his hands between her legs and thighs before later grabbing his crotch, talking about his penis and pushing his hips towards her.
I see so it was 99% verbal. He did go away though after the woman made it clear she was not interested.
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Post by dodgydave on Apr 26, 2024 11:37:20 GMT
This is the man you are attempting to defend... he is FIFTHY YEARS OLD btw. www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/hillingdon-man-who-sexually-assaulted-18477392He has been previously jailed for making sexual suggestions to a 14 YEAR OLD GIRL on a bus, then telling another women he wanted to have sex with her. He tried it on with a work colleague then when she rebuffed him he went after her teenage relative. In the incident you linked, he got on a train and harassed a women FOR 50 MINUTES, during which time two passengers tried to intervene, and one even sat next to her to offer support. He then assaulted her as he got off the train. Is it "cultural" for a 50 year old to pester a 14 year old girl for sex, is it culture to spit in the face of police officers? lol. Well I'm not complimenting him on his tact, his manner and nor his intelligence and observational abilities. He seems rather keen to go around chatting up women. I have no idea about his personal life and why he is as he is, but I'm trying to work out what he did which was illegal rather than just being annoying or stupid etc. You can't just go around banning people up because you don't like the way they behave towards you. I've had loads of shit remarks from people over the years. Should they have gone to prison too? They tell us at one time he was threatening violence, but going on all the other shit we observe, we have to wonder to what degree. For example if I was having an argument with a woman who was insulting me or being mean and i turned around and called her a bitch, like I said well fuck off then you bitch, does that count as threatening violence, or are we talking a knife against the throat. You see when they report these things we really don't know what the heck they are on about given the ultra broad use of these terms. The guy just might be lonely and looking for people to talk to. London is a hideously anti-social place and so too is Reading. If he has simply been shafted by the Feds he certainly would not be the first. Prisons are full of those faces that fitted the crime, like standing in the wrong place at the wrong time is an offence if you are very low IQ. Then again he might be a really dangerous person for all I know. It's just not one thing reported so far makes me think that. There is nothing that clinches it, like say he got a long knife out and waved it around, then I would see the likelihood of a fair cop. What the hell are you talking about. A 50 year old man making sexual remarks at a 14 year old girl is not "chatting her up". He doesn't have to have a knife you idiot, he is a man picking on women, he already has a massive physical advantage! Turn this around... if you were sat on a train and a huge 20 stone man mountain sat opposite you, felt your thigh, and made sexual comments towards you for 45 mins you would see that as him "chatting you up" and just ignore him?
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 26, 2024 12:32:18 GMT
Well I'm not complimenting him on his tact, his manner and nor his intelligence and observational abilities. He seems rather keen to go around chatting up women. I have no idea about his personal life and why he is as he is, but I'm trying to work out what he did which was illegal rather than just being annoying or stupid etc. You can't just go around banning people up because you don't like the way they behave towards you. I've had loads of shit remarks from people over the years. Should they have gone to prison too? They tell us at one time he was threatening violence, but going on all the other shit we observe, we have to wonder to what degree. For example if I was having an argument with a woman who was insulting me or being mean and i turned around and called her a bitch, like I said well fuck off then you bitch, does that count as threatening violence, or are we talking a knife against the throat. You see when they report these things we really don't know what the heck they are on about given the ultra broad use of these terms. The guy just might be lonely and looking for people to talk to. London is a hideously anti-social place and so too is Reading. If he has simply been shafted by the Feds he certainly would not be the first. Prisons are full of those faces that fitted the crime, like standing in the wrong place at the wrong time is an offence if you are very low IQ. Then again he might be a really dangerous person for all I know. It's just not one thing reported so far makes me think that. There is nothing that clinches it, like say he got a long knife out and waved it around, then I would see the likelihood of a fair cop. What the hell are you talking about. A 50 year old man making sexual remarks at a 14 year old girl is not "chatting her up". He doesn't have to have a knife you idiot, he is a man picking on women, he already has a massive physical advantage! Turn this around... if you were sat on a train and a huge 20 stone man mountain sat opposite you, felt your thigh, and made sexual comments towards you for 45 mins you would see that as him "chatting you up" and just ignore him? Well we are gradually piecing together what actually happened. The article I posted had none of the comments or actions made, instead they were scamming us and telling us he did these crimes so he is guilty. It's like say someone who they claim was going over the speed limit by saying he went down a particular road where he was "speeding". That's the judgment, not he action. The proof he was speeding would be to do with evidence of his speed, but to prove that by saying he was done because he was speeding is mixing up proof with verdict.
Anyway, it looks to me like he was a right pest but still I can't see any reasons from his actions where he would rape her, which is of course what she was fearful of. I think what the problem is here is that if he were say in his native town in Africa then this sort of behaviour would be the norm. Here we have a primitive African doing what your distant ancestors would have done and this clashes badly with the culture of the kind of commuter you get in Reading. Actually I know Reading station quite well as I have passed through it for years. It's full of blacks these days. What you have is a culture clash. Now remember for a crime to be committed you have to prove intention. Was he really trying to assault this woman, or in his mind was he just trying to shag her by chatting her up in a totally crude way? Perhaps in his local black community this crudeness is the norm. If you listen to some of the latest rap music they listen to then this appears to be a reasonable defence. I'm thinking about the lyrics of black woman pop artists singing about sex and selling these records in bona fide retailers.
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Post by Equivocal on Apr 26, 2024 13:52:24 GMT
. Now remember for a crime to be committed you have to prove intention. Was he really trying to assault this woman, or in his mind was he just trying to shag her by chatting her up in a totally crude way? Perhaps in his local black community this crudeness is the norm. If you listen to some of the latest rap music they listen to then this appears to be a reasonable defence. I'm thinking about the lyrics of black woman pop artists singing about sex and selling these records in bona fide retailers. No. For the crime of sexual assault to be proved proof of touching and intent to touch is required, proof that the touching is sexual is required and proof that the complainant did not consent is also required. As I set out earlier, you appear to be suggesting that Junior might have reasonably believed the complainant consented because women in his 'local black community' might accept this behaviour as normal and naturally consent.
The idea is, shall we say, a little far fetched.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 26, 2024 14:30:58 GMT
. Now remember for a crime to be committed you have to prove intention. Was he really trying to assault this woman, or in his mind was he just trying to shag her by chatting her up in a totally crude way? Perhaps in his local black community this crudeness is the norm. If you listen to some of the latest rap music they listen to then this appears to be a reasonable defence. I'm thinking about the lyrics of black woman pop artists singing about sex and selling these records in bona fide retailers. No. For the crime of sexual assault to be proved proof of touching and intent to touch is required, proof that the touching is sexual is required and proof that the complainant did not consent is also required. This is where your logic is failing. You say no, but then you pretend to correct me when the correction is not in any way contradicting anything I have said. Indeed I agree with your pretend correction in all respects but that it implies I was wrong in some way. I was not. You have to prove intention, or intent as you call it. We agree.
No not quite. What I had in mind was the black traditions in this mating game are roughly how he acted. Now lets suppose there was a black woman he was chatting up with the same crude ideas about sex as he has. She may not agree to have sex with him, but she would not in any way be surprised if a man tried it on, whereupon she would reject the advances he was making and that would be that, even to the point where the woman says no, but takes it as a compliment all the same. Women do like to be admired, this we know from experience. If he had imagined the encounter would be like that then there is no crime because he had no intention of doing anything that would upset the woman. The woman can say no and with a smile. Clearly this didn't happen and the woman was scared and the other people took it the same way as she did. He can be legal by intending to chat a woman up in a way that was asking for her consent. Now I don't know if this were the case or the detailed actions point towards it falling the other way and into the criminal domain. We just don't have the detail to know one way or another. I'm thinking here like a scientist who has a hypothesis and neither believes it not disbelieves it without experimental proof. You do not have to agree or disagree. You can take the position of 'I don't know', which is where I'm at here. Yes because the English culture and the primitive African culture are at opposite ends of the spectrum and could really not be any more different. The Far Right call the Left the Far Left and the Far Left call the Right Far Right. It's relativity. His world is a different normal from our normal.
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Post by Equivocal on Apr 26, 2024 14:44:08 GMT
No. For the crime of sexual assault to be proved proof of touching and intent to touch is required, proof that the touching is sexual is required and proof that the complainant did not consent is also required. This is where your logic is failing. You say no, but then you pretend to correct me when the correction is not in any way contradicting anything I have said. Indeed I agree with your pretend correction in all respects but that it implies I was wrong in some way. I was not. You have to prove intention, or intent as you call it. We agree.
I don't agree. The intent does not have to be to assault, just intent to touch sexually without consent. It is a defence to claim reasonable belief in consent. Your argument is based around belief in consent not intent(ion).
I'll leave it at that.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Apr 26, 2024 15:27:54 GMT
This is where your logic is failing. You say no, but then you pretend to correct me when the correction is not in any way contradicting anything I have said. Indeed I agree with your pretend correction in all respects but that it implies I was wrong in some way. I was not. You have to prove intention, or intent as you call it. We agree.
I don't agree. The intent does not have to be to assault, just intent to touch sexually without consent. It is a defence to claim reasonable belief in consent. Your argument is based around belief in consent not intent(ion).
I'll leave it at that.
It depends on what we mean by consent. There are all sorts of different ways one can consent. One could do it in writing through their solicitor (the Swedish way!) or there could be verbal consent and then there is implied consent as well. What I'm saying is in it being a cultural norm in his culture, he might believe that touching is consensual, like for example you don't need written consent to shake someone's hand, but you do it impulsively because it is normal. Talking of which, one time this happened to me when this woman who was one of the BBC's top presenters grabbed me and started kissing me and I did not give any consent to that. This is another example of how different cultures work in practice.
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Post by Orac on Apr 26, 2024 15:38:26 GMT
By allowing millions of people to wander into the country from Africa, aren't we essentially giving our consent for them to use their version of consent?
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