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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 20, 2024 20:55:15 GMT
Is Britain First a racist party? britainfirst.nationbuilder.com/racismWell, their website says that racism will not be tolerated. That's a good start, racism should have no role in politics. Infact this page shows that they have some Asian friends. All good then. They also have an equality statement too, which is fantastic, as it also makes clear that discrimination on the basis of religion is unacceptable. All good there. britainfirst.nationbuilder.com/equalityTheir principles though are a little bit more vague though. britainfirst.nationbuilder.com/principlesWanting out of the EU is fine (although it doesn't specifically talk about NATO it rather indicates that it wishes to withdraw here too) as is maintaining the union. It then goes on to say: "3. Britain First is committed to preserving our British cultural heritage, traditions, customs and values. We oppose the increasing colonisation of our homeland through uncontrolled, mass immigration. Britain First is committed to maintaining and strengthening Christianity as the foundation of our society and culture." Well, I can't quite get my head around that tbh. It doesn't wish to discriminate on the basis of religion, but wishes to build a society based on one? It's also unclear what is meant about preserving customs and heritage, what customs and heritage are there that would be under threat from immigration? The word "colonisation" is a strange one to use. For a party who is trying to insist that they are not racist and do not discriminate, they seem to be indicating that immigrants are "others", and not worth the same as white Britons. If this is meant in a non racist way, that isn't clear. If you wish to limit immigration on the basis of numbers, that can entirely be non racist. If you wish to stop immigration because you fear other people based on nationality, race or religion, then that would appear to go against their equality statement. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 20, 2024 20:58:53 GMT
There's some other strange policies on there too:
They wish for the UK to be self sufficient and don't believe in free trade.
I can't see that going too far...
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Post by Bentley on Apr 20, 2024 21:18:47 GMT
You .” Well, I can't quite get my head around that tbh. It doesn't wish to discriminate on the basis of religion, but wishes to build a society based on one?
Them “ Britain First is committed to maintaining and strengthening Christianity as the foundation of our society and culture."
So using Christianity as a foundation of society and culture but tolerating other religions is something that you ‘ can’t get your head around ‘?
I dont necessarily support this but it’s quite a simple concept .
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 20, 2024 21:32:23 GMT
There's some other strange policies on there too: They wish for the UK to be self sufficient and don't believe in free trade. I can't see that going too far... They believe in free trade with comparable economies so British workers are not undercut by cheap labour from 3rd world countries. The protection of British companies and industries from unfair foreign imports in certain areas where competition is not on an equal footing. British workers cannot be expected to lower their wages to the level of, for example, Vietnam or India, in order to 'compete'. Therefore, we support free trade only among first world nations with similar economic metrics to Britain.Which is not that far different from Labour Party policy of the 70's and 80's - we have come a very long way if that is now considered 'right-wing' and racist. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 20, 2024 21:49:46 GMT
Is Britain First a racist party? britainfirst.nationbuilder.com/racismWell, their website says that racism will not be tolerated. That's a good start, racism should have no role in politics. Infact this page shows that they have some Asian friends. All good then. They also have an equality statement too, which is fantastic, as it also makes clear that discrimination on the basis of religion is unacceptable. All good there. britainfirst.nationbuilder.com/equalityTheir principles though are a little bit more vague though. britainfirst.nationbuilder.com/principlesWanting out of the EU is fine (although it doesn't specifically talk about NATO it rather indicates that it wishes to withdraw here too) as is maintaining the union. It then goes on to say: "3. Britain First is committed to preserving our British cultural heritage, traditions, customs and values. We oppose the increasing colonisation of our homeland through uncontrolled, mass immigration. Britain First is committed to maintaining and strengthening Christianity as the foundation of our society and culture." Well, I can't quite get my head around that tbh. It doesn't wish to discriminate on the basis of religion, but wishes to build a society based on one? It's also unclear what is meant about preserving customs and heritage, what customs and heritage are there that would be under threat from immigration? The word "colonisation" is a strange one to use. For a party who is trying to insist that they are not racist and do not discriminate, they seem to be indicating that immigrants are "others", and not worth the same as white Britons. If this is meant in a non racist way, that isn't clear. If you wish to limit immigration on the basis of numbers, that can entirely be non racist. If you wish to stop immigration because you fear other people based on nationality, race or religion, then that would appear to go against their equality statement. If you are a British Citizen then as an individual you will not be discriminated against in law no matter what you are. That is totally different to basing a country on Christian values. If anyone does not like that by all means do not come in exactly the same way all countries around the world have their values and when in Rome is expected and reasonable. For British Citizens there is no discrimination but the expectation that immigrants will be chosen from Christian or secular countries does not seem an unreasonable stance. Colonisation is defined as "the action or process of settling among and establishing control over the indigenous people of an area:" You may disagree it is under way but many do not. No one mentioned white Britons. You invented that did you not? Britain First refer as far as I can see to British Citizens in all cases. Are you saying the British People should not be selective in who they allow to arrive, settle and have influence in their country. If people support any religion or ideology that is against British principles and values then I would welcome selection as would many others. Do you want to try again remember we are looking for racist and fascist policies. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 20, 2024 22:09:41 GMT
Are you saying the British People should not be selective in who they allow to arrive, settle and have influence in their country. If people support any religion or ideology that is against British principles and values then I would welcome selection as would many others. But wouldn't that go against their stated policy NOT to discriminate on the basis of religion? 🤔 |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 20, 2024 22:19:54 GMT
There's some other strange policies on there too: They wish for the UK to be self sufficient and don't believe in free trade. I can't see that going too far... They believe in free trade with comparable economies so British workers are not undercut by cheap labour from 3rd world countries. The protection of British companies and industries from unfair foreign imports in certain areas where competition is not on an equal footing. British workers cannot be expected to lower their wages to the level of, for example, Vietnam or India, in order to 'compete'. Therefore, we support free trade only among first world nations with similar economic metrics to Britain.Which is not that far different from Labour Party policy of the 70's and 80's - we have come a very long way if that is now considered 'right-wing' and racist. To be fair, I wasn't claiming that was racist, I was trying to widen the discussion in to other policy areas, so that it's not just the same conversation that happens on most threads here. It does seem very isolationist, which is the opposite of what the Global Britain Brexit was supposed to be. Being self sufficient for some things is great, but I'm not sure that trying to cut yourself off from the rest of the world is a good idea. Moving from EU SM to our Pacific deal would seem to be the opposite of what BF want, but is actually a direct consequence of the Brexit that they advocated. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 21, 2024 7:14:37 GMT
Are you saying the British People should not be selective in who they allow to arrive, settle and have influence in their country. If people support any religion or ideology that is against British principles and values then I would welcome selection as would many others. But wouldn't that go against their stated policy NOT to discriminate on the basis of religion? 🤔 Not to discriminate against British Citizens on any basis I think is what they are saying and I thought that was made clear in the statements. The UK can discriminate as much as it wants when it comes to allowing people to settle. Or should the UK take anyone other countries say they should. That does not seem fair, we cannot demand who other countries take. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 21, 2024 7:28:58 GMT
They believe in free trade with comparable economies so British workers are not undercut by cheap labour from 3rd world countries. The protection of British companies and industries from unfair foreign imports in certain areas where competition is not on an equal footing. British workers cannot be expected to lower their wages to the level of, for example, Vietnam or India, in order to 'compete'. Therefore, we support free trade only among first world nations with similar economic metrics to Britain.Which is not that far different from Labour Party policy of the 70's and 80's - we have come a very long way if that is now considered 'right-wing' and racist. To be fair, I wasn't claiming that was racist, I was trying to widen the discussion in to other policy areas, so that it's not just the same conversation that happens on most threads here. It does seem very isolationist, which is the opposite of what the Global Britain Brexit was supposed to be. Being self sufficient for some things is great, but I'm not sure that trying to cut yourself off from the rest of the world is a good idea.
Moving from EU SM to our Pacific deal would seem to be the opposite of what BF want, but is actually a direct consequence of the Brexit that they advocated. Isolationism used to be a valid political position. I remind you that only one major Political party has ever gone into an election with the policy of leaving the EU - and that was Labour. I'm still struggling to see anything particularly 'right-wing' about it. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 21, 2024 8:02:06 GMT
Not to discriminate against British Citizens on any basis I think is what they are saying and I thought that was made clear in the statements. Nope, that isn't what it says. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 21, 2024 10:00:03 GMT
Not to discriminate against British Citizens on any basis I think is what they are saying and I thought that was made clear in the statements. Nope, that isn't what it says. Then you are reading sections in isolation and not as a whole. The references are as regards membership and UK citizens, the British people. The British people decide who should and should not come. Would you agree that is a desirable thing? It is the cultures and ideologies of who comes that is critical, you may call that racism, and the left throw the term around with gay abandon, but it is ensuring that culture, as the stability of a nation and the democratic essential, is in general terms homogenous. I ask again is that a desirable thing. |
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Post by Hutchyns on Apr 21, 2024 14:27:13 GMT
andrewbrown
That's true, but if we think back to the Referendum campaign there wasn't a uniform argument as regards the best policy to follow in the event of leaving,
and while always exaggerated by the Remain campaign there was always a proportion of the 'Leave' vote who did advocate pulling up the drawbridge and didn't want Britain trying to play a major part on the world stage, particularly if that just meant continuing to parrot the preferred policies of the United States. The Warmongering ,the increased identification as Uncle Sam's little brother, the being a major supplier of arms to one side or the other in foreign conflicts, were all things that when I voted for Brexit, in the forlorn hope that we could decrease or eliminate, but with independence and democracy there is always the option to increase instead, and that's the path we've taken.
Brexit was never a policy in itself, but it could and should have given us options to change course if we wished ...... that would naturally have required us to vote into power the politicians that favoured and wanted to make changes, and we've decided not to do that ..... in fact we're on the brink of electing a Government determined to make sure that Global Britain's outlook will be remarkably similar to that of the European Union.
'Supposed to be' on paper possibly, but as we continued to vote for a Parliament comprising of four fifths Remainers, they were always likely to prefer their own agenda to following the Brexit script.
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Post by Hutchyns on Apr 21, 2024 18:48:49 GMT
Andrew Brown Knowing which traditions and customs are being chipped away at, is what you miss out on by not being a regular reader of the likes of the Daily Mail or Daily Telegraph  . They inform their readers on an almost daily basis of some familiar aspect of old Britain that will be no more. Whether this is important or totally unimportant will of course differ from individual to individual. Here for instance is one from today.  I'd also be a bit reticent in identifying immigration for the ongoing assault on Britain's traditions and customs. I'd most definitely point the finger at the Wokerati who seem to have a stranglehold on our institutions, and who have a pathological hatred for anything they identify as an English or British tradition. I believe there's an ongoing campaign to have Last Night Of The Proms banned ..... isn't singing Land of Hope and Glory proof you're a hateful rabid racist or some such ? |
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Post by wapentake on Apr 21, 2024 19:40:04 GMT
Andrew Brown Knowing which traditions and customs are being chipped away at, is what you miss out on by not being a regular reader of the likes of the Daily Mail or Daily Telegraph . They inform their readers on an almost daily basis of some familiar aspect of old Britain that will be no more. Whether this is important or totally unimportant will of course differ from individual to individual. Here for instance is one from today. I'd also be a bit reticent in identifying immigration for the ongoing assault on Britain's traditions and customs. I'd most definitely point the finger at the Wokerati who seem to have a stranglehold on our institutions, and who have a pathological hatred for anything they identify as an English or British tradition. I believe there's an ongoing campaign to have Last Night Of The Proms banned ..... isn't singing Land of Hope and Glory proof you're a hateful rabid racist or some such ? I agree,partly but the you cannot escape the govts inability to control the ever growing number arriving by dinghy which often do not meet the criteria for asylum but are arriving here purely on monetary grounds in that they want a better life or are escaping a criminal past. Whatever the case they are changing the face of Britain which is nominally a Christian country. Just my opinion but and like most countries we need to protect our heritage and way of life. |
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Post by Hutchyns on Apr 21, 2024 21:09:21 GMT
wapentake
And a perfectly legitimate opinion it is to hold. However in a few months when General Election time is with us, it will be a test of opinion on whether the British public wish to elect into power politicians than prioritise the protection of our heritage and way of life, or whether they put a cross in the box next to politicians who prioritise self selected pronouns, transgenderism, Drag Queen storytime for infants, and are signed up to the diversity is our strength doctrine. All indications are that the great British public will endorse the latter in great numbers, while shunning the former.
The need to protect our heritage and way of life is claimed to be needed right up until it becomes time to actually do something about it to make sure that it happens. The small number of votes cast for Britain First will almost definitely bear this out.
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. They inform their readers on an almost daily basis of some familiar aspect of old Britain that will be no more. Whether this is important or totally unimportant will of course differ from individual to individual. 