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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 16, 2024 10:23:31 GMT
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 16, 2024 10:23:48 GMT
The sense of depression and helplessness indicated in the OP is because those who supported Brexit and promised the return of British superiority have run the country ever since.
The same lying half-wits who manipulated the referendum and who ensured they would be in power, have run the country like the half-wits they always were.
What I would like to know is that excluding Covid, where has all the money gone? No other country has had ten continual years of austerity and still has more and more tragic poverty in the standard of living.
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 16, 2024 10:24:18 GMT
You misunderstand - those polls show a majority in favour of rejoining are doing so on the basis of having the same agreements as we had last time, which will no longer be available. However if you ask the question based on what rules and regulations would be applicable then you never get a majority in favour. In the poll that you cite there is a majority against rejoining on the terms available today. As you probably know, there was a huge difference in voting patterns between younger and older people in the 2016 referendum, which was now 8 years ago, and there is an obvious shift in opinion. The real truth is that the younger generations dont have rose tinted spectacles, and do not have visions of Empire and power, they see the real world as it is. Younger generations now reaching middle age like the idea of going to the cash machine, drawing out your Euro's, putting them in your pocket and jumping on a train or plane to mainland Europe without barriers. Many feel the world will be a better place if we unite and co-operate for the good of all, not least our economy and standard of living. Younger generations see Freedom Of Movement as OPPORTUNITY, they are not interested in waving little Union Flags, singing "Land Of Hope and Glory", and they dont view German or French people as enemies. It may not happen for many years, but the writting is on the wall, our place in a united Europe is where we should be, and its going to happen at some point. Well that may be so - none of us can see into the future. What we do know now though is that so far there has not been a single poll in favour of rejoining. |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 16, 2024 10:30:56 GMT
It wont stop Europhiles like Starmer and Ed Davey grovelling to them, they'd both put us back in the EU in a heartbeat, because both are out-of-touch with ordinary people, they think the EU is wonderful because it offers so much for 'them', which is all they are interested in.
As for the ordinary people of the UK which they don't care about, the EU offers them feck all.
I would just point them to our export rankings, overtaking France, Netherlands and Japan into fourth place. The service sector was another sector that was supposed to be pulped during the referendum. The CPTPP agreement which I believe kicks in June or July will make for very hard work trying to get back into the EU.  It is estimated to possibly account for an increase in UK GDP of .08%. The EU already has trade agreements with most of the countries and of course Canada and the EU have a free trade deal (CETA) which the UK voted out of and failed to replace. Course it depends on the situation in the Middle East and whether shipping lanes are open. The UK is far more dependant on imports than the EU. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 16, 2024 10:36:02 GMT
The reason why Reform UK cannot make any headway in UK politics is two fold (1) We have an unfair voting system (2) Not many people actually support Reform UK Reform UK will never achieve government because more than half the electorate would vote REJOIN if there were to be another EU referendum. Most people are not Xenophobes I guess the very best they could ever achieve would be to become "Dealmakers" or "Kingmakers" in some future hung Parliament. However, if the polls were to be reflected in the Autumn election, and if the Tories are decimated, there could be some kind of realignment of British politics. I have to assume you're being serious! Remarkable. In spite of Cameron calling them fruitcakes loonies and closet racists, it took UKIP twenty years to get to 12% of the vote which was enough to force the government to allow the long overdue referendum. UKIP changed government policy. So far it's taken Reform UK five years to get to 15% of the vote, and I'll let you into a secret. Lefties, people like you may be pretending Reform UK doesn't matter, but I guarantee that behind closed doors both Labour and the Tories will be concerned about the rapid rise in popularity of Reform UK. Parties like UKIP and Reform UK don't have to be in government to change government policy. They just have to be popular, and Reform UK are growing in popularity all the time. |
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Post by witchfinder on Apr 16, 2024 15:29:20 GMT
UKIP were never a threat to the dominance of the Conservatives and Labour in the House of Commons, they never once got a UKIP MP elected.
David Cameron put the EU referendum onto the agenda, not because of UKIP, but because he wanted to stop the divide in the Conservative Party.
Who knows what tomorrow might bring, if the Lib Dems do well in the forthcoming general election, and the Tories are decimated, then it will be the Lib Dems who will have increased influence ... the most pro European party of all the mainstream UK political parties.
If the majority within the electorate who now feel LEAVE was a bad idea grows, then how can you ignore the wishes of the people.
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 16, 2024 17:03:16 GMT
UKIP were never a threat to the dominance of the Conservatives and Labour in the House of Commons, they never once got a UKIP MP elected. David Cameron put the EU referendum onto the agenda, not because of UKIP, but because he wanted to stop the divide in the Conservative Party. Of course they were a threat - support for the Tories was leaching away to UKIP and the only thing that could stop that drop in support was the promise of a vote on the EU. |
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