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Post by Fairsociety on Apr 3, 2024 11:37:16 GMT
Islamists have this insecure control freak way about them, and a general disregard for the natural flow and evolution of humans. Are there any Islamists in this discussion? All The Best We have Islamist sympathisers on here, same thing. |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 3, 2024 11:40:48 GMT
1) Possession for personal use should not be a crime, but it is, and due to that, addicts often don't seek help because they don't want to go to prison, or be fined.
Under my proposal they would be able to get help simply by going to the doctors, and even if they weren't ready to quit, they might consider weaker and weaker doses until they're weaned off.
2) Attraction to a drug can be put off with education.
3) There are no government health warnings on booze.
4) Tobacco use is dwindling. Vaping is seen as safer (except by those who have had lithium ion batteries explode in their faces).
5) Booze is legal but if you're pissed at work it's sackable. Think about it.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Apr 3, 2024 13:13:49 GMT
So you are claiming that making something free, legal, and easy to access that was once costly, illegal and hard to access will see usage fall? I contend that common sense says the exact opposite will happen. All The Best Except that it's currently neither costly nor hard to access and the law is barely enforced. And the experience elsewhere has shown that usage falls in the long term. |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 3, 2024 13:26:19 GMT
So you are claiming that making something free, legal, and easy to access that was once costly, illegal and hard to access will see usage fall? I contend that common sense says the exact opposite will happen. All The Best Except that it's currently neither costly nor hard to access and the law is barely enforced. And the experience elsewhere has shown that usage falls in the long term. Exactly, evidence from Portugal is extremely encouraging. The crime rate there in 2019 was 26.61 per thousand inhabitants, whereas here it was 75.88 in 2022/23. From a population of 10 million, there were 85 murders in 2021. In London alone in 2021 there were 131 murders from a population of 8.9 million. Most illegal firearms in this country are owned by those involved in the drug trade. That problem would disappear. Most stabbings are committed by those involved in the drug trade. Not only would it save lives, but it would save a fortune and the job of the Police would be easier. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Apr 3, 2024 13:29:26 GMT
Absolutely. I put it like this:
Tobacco is legal but I don't smoke. I could buy 100 Benson & Hedges every day if I wanted to, but I don't rush out and do that just because I can.
Alcohol is legal but I'm not an alcoholic. I could drink a bottle of Jack Daniels every day if I wanted to, but I don't rush out and do that just because I can.
Food is legal but I don't weigh forty stones. I could eat 10,000 calories every day if I wanted to, but I don't rush out and do that just because I can.
Most people don't.
It's the same with drugs: If heroin, cocaine or cannabis were legalised tomorrow most of us aren't going to suddenly rush out and start taking them just because we can.
Of course, there are people who are overweight, alcoholics, smokers, drug addicts or make other unhealthy lifestyle choices. Legality or otherwise has very little effect on those.
All that prohibition has achieved is the creation of a criminal black market.
So let's stop wasting our time with this and legalise the lot. And put the cash saved into treatment instead.
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Post by Fairsociety on Apr 3, 2024 13:38:54 GMT
Absolutely. I put it like this: Tobacco is legal but I don't smoke. I could buy 100 Benson & Hedges every day if I wanted to, but I don't rush out and do that just because I can. Alcohol is legal but I'm not an alcoholic. I could drink a bottle of Jack Daniels every day if I wanted to, but I don't rush out and do that just because I can. Food is legal but I don't weigh forty stones. I could eat 10,000 calories every day if I wanted to, but I don't rush out and do that just because I can. Most people don't. It's the same with drugs: If heroin, cocaine or cannabis were legalised tomorrow most of us aren't going to suddenly rush out and start taking them just because we can. Of course, there are people who are overweight, alcoholics, smokers, drug addicts or make other unhealthy lifestyle choices. Legality or otherwise has very little effect on those. All that prohibition has achieved is the creation of a criminal black market. So let's stop wasting our time with this and legalise the lot. And put the cash saved into treatment instead. It would all boil down to who will have the licence to provide them.
I think chemists would be a option, because I don't think people will want drugs shops popping up all over the place likes these Vape shops, they are everywhere.
Thanks to the Labour run councils going bust they wont invest money in drugs units, they are too busy squandering money on the woke projects, prisons use to be the answer to get people off drugs, but now there's a bigger drugs problem in prison than on the streets, everything is just a mess, there isn't any aspect of life that is running normally or efficiently, the Tories aren't the answer and neither is Labour, the people of the UK are screaming out for HELP.
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 3, 2024 15:55:15 GMT
Are there any Islamists in this discussion? All The Best We have Islamist sympathisers on here, same thing. No, it really isn't. We may have Islamist sympathisers on this forum, but to use that as a blanket accusation against any who disagree with you on a point that is not in any way related to anything Islamist is both dishonest and cowardly. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 3, 2024 15:59:10 GMT
1) Possession for personal use should not be a crime, but it is, and due to that, addicts often don't seek help because they don't want to go to prison, or be fined. Under my proposal they would be able to get help simply by going to the doctors, and even if they weren't ready to quit, they might consider weaker and weaker doses until they're weaned off. 2) Attraction to a drug can be put off with education. 3) There are no government health warnings on booze. 4) Tobacco use is dwindling. Vaping is seen as safer (except by those who have had lithium ion batteries explode in their faces). 5) Booze is legal but if you're pissed at work it's sackable. Think about it. 3) There are certainly "daily unit guidance" on the alcohol I have brought recently. 5) And it is relatively easy to tell if someone is pissed at work; it is not the case with some drugs, and some of them will impair perception, reasoning, and response times far more than alcohol will. So how to you plan to address this? Other than burying your head in the sand and pretending it isn't an issue? All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 3, 2024 16:00:48 GMT
Absolutely. I put it like this: Tobacco is legal but I don't smoke. I could buy 100 Benson & Hedges every day if I wanted to, but I don't rush out and do that just because I can. Alcohol is legal but I'm not an alcoholic. I could drink a bottle of Jack Daniels every day if I wanted to, but I don't rush out and do that just because I can. Food is legal but I don't weigh forty stones. I could eat 10,000 calories every day if I wanted to, but I don't rush out and do that just because I can. Most people don't. It's the same with drugs: If heroin, cocaine or cannabis were legalised tomorrow most of us aren't going to suddenly rush out and start taking them just because we can. Of course, there are people who are overweight, alcoholics, smokers, drug addicts or make other unhealthy lifestyle choices. Legality or otherwise has very little effect on those. All that prohibition has achieved is the creation of a criminal black market. So let's stop wasting our time with this and legalise the lot. And put the cash saved into treatment instead. No, it really isn't. Because many, if not all, of those drugs are several orders of magnitude MORE ADDICTIVE for the average person then food, tobacco or alcohol. All The Best |
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Post by Fairsociety on Apr 3, 2024 16:18:31 GMT
We have Islamist sympathisers on here, same thing. No, it really isn't. We may have Islamist sympathisers on this forum, but to use that as a blanket accusation against any who disagree with you on a point that is not in any way related to anything Islamist is both dishonest and cowardly. All The Best Nothing cowardly or dishonest about, it's ok for the lefties to bandy about racist liars slurs just because a poster doesn't agree with them or have a different view, wild horses wouldn't get some posters to decry the attack on Israel on 7th October, but the same set of posters are outraged at the retaliation for that attack, now that is dishonest and cowardly. |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 3, 2024 16:29:53 GMT
3) Buy a drink in a pub, where's the health warning on the glass?
5) Drug testing and sacking.
And you're missing the whole point of the idea.
Addicts will be going to people who want to steer them away from drugs, people who offer addiction support, counselling, therapy, weaning, instead of their habit.
They will receive help instead of threat.
But those who are absolutely determined to get off their faces will have a safe place to do so and won't be shoplifting to pay for it.
As a result policing costs will be lower, prison costs will be lower.
There's an estimated 306,000 heroin addicts in the UK.
There were 210,000 drug related crimes in England and Wales in 2020/21.
Do the maths. If we were to lock up those 306,000 addicts at £46k per head, the cost of incarceration alone would be £14,076,000,000. But there's also the Police work, the trials, the lawyers provided by the court at taxpayer's expense.... On top of that there's violent crime, stabbings, shootings....
The cost of locking up drug addicts is enormous.
Prohibition isn't working.
What the Portuguese have tried does work.
We should consider alternatives to what we're doing now because our system doesn't work.
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 3, 2024 16:42:52 GMT
No, it really isn't. We may have Islamist sympathisers on this forum, but to use that as a blanket accusation against any who disagree with you on a point that is not in any way related to anything Islamist is both dishonest and cowardly. All The Best Nothing cowardly or dishonest about, it's ok for the lefties to bandy about (1) racist liars slurs just because a poster doesn't agree with them or have a different view, wild horses wouldn't get some posters to decry the attack on Israel on 7th October, but the same set of posters are outraged at the retaliation for that attack (2), now that is dishonest and cowardly. 1) That's just whataboutery. If something is wrong, it is wrong, regardless if someone else has done it or not. 2) However, let me respond with some whataboutery of my own: wild horses wouldn't get some posters to decry Israel's grossly disproportionate, and borderline illegal, response to the cowardly and heinous Hamas attack of Oct 7th; and you are right, it is dishonest and cowardly. I have, and will continue to condemn both. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 3, 2024 16:48:33 GMT
3) Buy a drink in a pub, where's the health warning on the glass? 5) Drug testing and sacking. And you're missing the whole point of the idea. Addicts will be going to people who want to steer them away from drugs, people who offer addiction support, counselling, therapy, weaning, instead of their habit. They will receive help instead of threat. But those who are absolutely determined to get off their faces will have a safe place to do so and won't be shoplifting to pay for it. As a result policing costs will be lower, prison costs will be lower. There's an estimated 306,000 heroin addicts in the UK. There were 210,000 drug related crimes in England and Wales in 2020/21. Do the maths. If we were to lock up those 306,000 addicts at £46k per head, the cost of incarceration alone would be £14,076,000,000. But there's also the Police work, the trials, the lawyers provided by the court at taxpayer's expense.... On top of that there's violent crime, stabbings, shootings.... The cost of locking up drug addicts is enormous. Prohibition isn't working. What the Portuguese have tried does work. We should consider alternatives to what we're doing now because our system doesn't work. 3) Landlords have the right, and the duty, to refuse to serve someone they feel has had too much to drink. 3) Are you suggesting imposing mandatory, daily, workplace drug-testing for every one? Because that is the ONLY way to stop what I have described, and it is a gross over reaction and will cost more than locking criminals up (especially if third offences also come with asset seizures as I propose). I agree our system does not work currently. I am certain what you are proposing will also not work; because it has no reasonable or cost-effective safeguards in place to prevent stoners causing harm in the workplace (where there is often very dangerous machinery) to non-stoners. Find a way over that hurdle and I am with you. So far you haven't even come close. All The Best |
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Post by Fairsociety on Apr 3, 2024 16:49:36 GMT
Nothing cowardly or dishonest about, it's ok for the lefties to bandy about (1) racist liars slurs just because a poster doesn't agree with them or have a different view, wild horses wouldn't get some posters to decry the attack on Israel on 7th October, but the same set of posters are outraged at the retaliation for that attack (2), now that is dishonest and cowardly. 1) That's just whataboutery. If something is wrong, it is wrong, regardless if someone else has done it or not. 2) However, let me respond with some whataboutery of my own: wild horses wouldn't get some posters to decry Israel's grossly disproportionate, and borderline illegal, response to the cowardly and heinous Hamas attack of Oct 7th; and you are right, it is dishonest and cowardly. I have, and will continue to condemn both. All The Best I never specifically mentioned you, I am of the same opinion two wrongs will never make a right, the thing about wars the instigators and leaders are twitching from behind their net curtains while innocent people are caught in the crossfire, if these instigators and leaders were told they are fighting on the front line with the rest of the foot soldiers I can guarantee you they'd be rethinking their war strategy. |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 3, 2024 16:57:07 GMT
3) Buy a drink in a pub, where's the health warning on the glass? 5) Drug testing and sacking. And you're missing the whole point of the idea. Addicts will be going to people who want to steer them away from drugs, people who offer addiction support, counselling, therapy, weaning, instead of their habit. They will receive help instead of threat. But those who are absolutely determined to get off their faces will have a safe place to do so and won't be shoplifting to pay for it. As a result policing costs will be lower, prison costs will be lower. There's an estimated 306,000 heroin addicts in the UK. There were 210,000 drug related crimes in England and Wales in 2020/21. Do the maths. If we were to lock up those 306,000 addicts at £46k per head, the cost of incarceration alone would be £14,076,000,000. But there's also the Police work, the trials, the lawyers provided by the court at taxpayer's expense.... On top of that there's violent crime, stabbings, shootings.... The cost of locking up drug addicts is enormous. Prohibition isn't working. What the Portuguese have tried does work. We should consider alternatives to what we're doing now because our system doesn't work. 3) Landlords have the right, and the duty, to refuse to serve someone they feel has had too much to drink. I know this all too well. As I have a life, there are times when I've actually had too much to drink. Daily? No. But at employers discretion, staff can provide urine samples for testing. And anyone who is unable to perform to the best of their abilities can be fast tracked for testing or sacked. |
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