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Post by witchfinder on Mar 31, 2024 15:54:34 GMT
I have allready had my say on this issue to Labour Party members and supporters
My argument goes like this ... Yes, its true that for a long time the far Right have draped themselves in our national flag, and literally "used it" to promote THEIR version of patriotism.
If SOME members or supporters of The Labour Party feel that leaflets depicting OUR national flag is somehow inapproriate, then basically they have let the far Right win, and they have let the far Right hijack an iconic symbol of the UK which should be for all, for everyone, regardless of your political beliefs.
The meaning and symbolism of the Union Flag is whatever you believe it is, for me its about the values and traditions of what it means to be British, fairness, freedom, tolerance, freedom of religion, the rule of law, democracy and the coming together of different nations which make up The United Kingdom.
I dont believe for one moment that this is a burning issue, its the views of a minority within the Labour Party, and I dont believe it will alter the forthcoming fate of the Conservative Party.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 31, 2024 15:55:53 GMT
I can understand the reluctance to use the Union Flag in political literature. It was monopolised by Far Right groups for years as they marched around the streets demonstrating against and frequently attacking people they classed as non-British. And all the while the moderate bulk of the country did nothing to stop their flag from being hijacked by troublesome groups — indeed, many Jewish and immigrants still regard non-official display of the flag with apprehension.Well obviously some immigrants have a problem with the Union Flag - not convinced the Jews are that offended  |
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Post by Handyman on Mar 31, 2024 15:59:24 GMT
Nemo Swastikas pre-date the Nazis in Asia or at least India. I think it is fair game to arrest if it was the red and black swastika yet can see no picture. Indeed it goes way back in time, long before Hitler nicked it, it is not an Offence in the UK to have or show a Swastika |
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Post by see2 on Mar 31, 2024 16:06:55 GMT
Nemo Swastikas pre-date the Nazis in Asia or at least India. I think it is fair game to arrest if it was the red and black swastika yet can see no picture. Indeed it goes way back in time, long before Hitler nicked it, it is not an Offence in the UK to have or show a Swastika I suspect you are correct, but what might be unacceptable is the reasons / implications in displaying the Swastika. |
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Post by patman post on Mar 31, 2024 16:09:05 GMT
I can understand the reluctance to use the Union Flag in political literature. It was monopolised by Far Right groups for years as they marched around the streets demonstrating against and frequently attacking people they classed as non-British. And all the while the moderate bulk of the country did nothing to stop their flag from being hijacked by troublesome groups — indeed, many Jewish and immigrants still regard non-official display of the flag with apprehension.Well obviously some immigrants have a problem with the Union Flag - not convinced the Jews are that offended What, when and where is that picture from?
Is it, perhaps, of a demo wanting the UK to keep supplying Israel with arms?
And what's the Iranian flag indicating...? |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 31, 2024 16:48:29 GMT
I can understand the reluctance to use the Union Flag in political literature. It was monopolised by Far Right groups for years as they marched around the streets demonstrating against and frequently attacking people they classed as non-British. And all the while the moderate bulk of the country did nothing to stop their flag from being hijacked by troublesome groups — indeed, many Jewish and immigrants still regard non-official display of the flag with apprehension. It will take more than Morrisons, Sainsburys and Tesco plastering British bacon, butter and cheese with Union Jack decoration to remove the suspicion many people have… It was not monopolised, it was used by them to show that they were Nationalist in their outlook just as any Nationalist group in any country would use the National flag as their anchor and rallying point. It is a clear problem that people viewing the Flag, and those who display it, with apprehension due to associations with violent groups yet we are meant to not associate Islam, mosques and displays of Islam with anything except respect and tolerance despite the fact that the associations for most people of such displays is with death and destruction, intolerance and division, most especially in recent years. Perhaps it will take more to make people less wary but you highlight the intrinsic problems of multicultural, multi-faith and multi-ethnic societies which is a distinct lack of trust. |
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Post by patman post on Mar 31, 2024 19:08:44 GMT
I can understand the reluctance to use the Union Flag in political literature. It was monopolised by Far Right groups for years as they marched around the streets demonstrating against and frequently attacking people they classed as non-British. And all the while the moderate bulk of the country did nothing to stop their flag from being hijacked by troublesome groups — indeed, many Jewish and immigrants still regard non-official display of the flag with apprehension. It will take more than Morrisons, Sainsburys and Tesco plastering British bacon, butter and cheese with Union Jack decoration to remove the suspicion many people have… It was not monopolised, it was used by them to show that they were Nationalist in their outlook just as any Nationalist group in any country would use the National flag as their anchor and rallying point. It is a clear problem that people viewing the Flag, and those who display it, with apprehension due to associations with violent groups yet we are meant to not associate Islam, mosques and displays of Islam with anything except respect and tolerance despite the fact that the associations for most people of such displays is with death and destruction, intolerance and division, most especially in recent years. Perhaps it will take more to make people less wary but you highlight the intrinsic problems of multicultural, multi-faith and multi-ethnic societies which is a distinct lack of trust. No. You're right — the Union Flag was not monopolised by any group.
It's more correct to say it was appropriated and utilised by them, just as it was by underwear manufacturers** so we're now all able to display our loyalty without contesting anyone's right to using the Union Jack...
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Post by jonksy on Mar 31, 2024 19:35:22 GMT
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 31, 2024 20:35:29 GMT
England and its swastikas"Many of these motifs arrived in England as a result of Britain's colonisation of India during the 18th Century." Back in the long-distant past, before we embarked our globetrotting, Mme D worked in a branch of the National Provincial Bank (later the Natwest) which had a very prominent swastika motif on the floor of its entrance foyer. Nobody apparently even noticed until much later when a Mr. Patel complained first to the bank, and when that didn't produce the right result, to the Bolton Evening News. According to a report in the Guardian: "Yet despite Patel's complaint and scathing comments from both the local branch of Unite against Fascism and the influential Bolton Against Racism, the bank has refused to remove the swastikas. "The symbols are an original feature of the building," a NatWest spokesperson insists. "At that time, these symbols were commonly used as architectural decoration. You would have to speak to the architects to determine why this symbol was put there. In all these years this is the first complaint we have ever received. We have no plans to remove them." As far as I'm aware they remained in situ until the building was demolished sometime in the 2010s. "The swastika is not solely a Nazi symbol, but for Jews, and for many non-Jews, it symbolises mass murder and evil," says a spokesman for the Jewish Community Services Trust. "It is regrettable that the bank regards it as a worthwhile decoration for its floor." But in two hours of interviews, no customers found by this journalist seemed to take much offence. On the contrary, the majority of customers were either unaware of the symbol's meaning, or reacted much like Maureen Rucki: "That's that German thing, yeah?" One particularly sensitive customer, who preferred not to be named, added: "It's fucking bollocks. What should we be bowing down to Jews for? The war's over, get over it." Quite so.
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