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Post by Vinny on Mar 30, 2024 17:51:39 GMT
Oh for goodness sake, the remnant KGB had spent a decade undermining Yeltsin, making organised crime run out of control, staging terrorism, I know what Russia was like before Putin. The remnant KGB were already pulling the strings by 1994. First Chechen war. Yeltsin lost and should have lost the 1996 election, they had him by the balls and they got him "re-elected" in a rigged vote. He in return started moving their people into his government.
Galina Starovoytova objected, helped maneuver out the KGB's preferred candidate and in 1998 they assassinated her.
Then with their preferred candidate maneuvered out, they maneuvered another in.
This is all in Litvinenko's book. He was still in the FSB at the time. He knew Putin personally.
There were more involved with the conspiracy than just Putin.
Putin was plan C.
There were those in the FSB who staged terrorism.
Litvinenko left the FSB when Putin ordered him to kill.
He refused. It's in his book. Read it.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 30, 2024 18:07:48 GMT
Oh for goodness sake, the remnant KGB had spent a decade undermining Yeltsin, making organised crime run out of control, staging terrorism, I know what Russia was like before Putin. The remnant KGB were already pulling the strings by 1994. First Chechen war. Yeltsin lost and should have lost the 1996 election, they had him by the balls and they got him "re-elected" in a rigged vote. He in return started moving their people into his government. Galina Starovoytova objected, helped maneuver out the KGB's preferred candidate and in 1998 they assassinated her. Then with their preferred candidate maneuvered out, they maneuvered another in. This is all in Litvinenko's book. He was still in the FSB at the time. He knew Putin personally. There were more involved with the conspiracy than just Putin. Putin was plan C. There were those in the FSB who staged terrorism. Litvinenko left the FSB when Putin ordered him to kill. He refused. It's in his book. Read it. I think you would find this chap in agreement with the 2000s and late 90s period. The whole country had fallen into chaos and corruption. It's not my area of expertise to know all the ins and outs, but obviously what needed to be done was to bring all this shit under control. I'm sure they bent some rules and used some underhand methods, but a successful outcome was more important than a few people coming off badly for one reason or another. The Russian philosophy is different. Everyone in Russia for example knows if you tried one of those JSO type protests and stopped the Moscow traffic, even though that might be technically legal, as a Russian you know, there is a fudge factor at play. They would get the heavy squad in an pack the lot into vans before you knew it. This is how we English differ culturally. We would spend millions on lawyers hammering it out. In Russia the KGB would see to it they were no further bother.
Anyhow the oligarchs were likely to have had some previous that could have landed then behind bars, but they were given the option to cooperate or piss off out of Russia.I don't think there was another way to bring the feuding to a halt. You have to make everyone happy to create peace.
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Post by Vinny on Mar 30, 2024 18:19:00 GMT
The remnant KGB were behind the oligarchs.
They were behind all the corruption.
They were behind the downfall of democracy in Russia and the rise of a new dictatorship.
Everything badly wrong in the 90's in Russia was their doing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2024 18:35:19 GMT
If you're comparing academic work to a news site then it can't be that good.
That's illogical. I'm comparing him to the place where most people get their news from. There is a world of difference. I know where people get their news from because their messages carry signature errors, so you can trace the error back to the source and know the origin. Why are you making this comparison and what are "signature errors" and how is it relevant? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2024 18:37:55 GMT
If you don't take sides with the victims, whether you realise it or not, you have sided with the oppressor. Putin is not a President as Russians haven't had free and fair elections in decades. Putin is a dictator. He admits the political process was not very democratic, but you also have to consider what Russia was like when President Putin took control and how it is now. He did a bit of a Thatcher trick and turned it around when it was facing disaster.
As the man was saying, Russians have gone though a number of distinct political phases, from the czars all the way to the current time, and each phase has been culturally different. For example during the soviet era they were very ideological, but as the soviet system failed they lost faith in ideology, so today the Russian view is kind of an expression of irony. They make jokes about the way things work in Russia, but things still get done. It's a funny kind of culture and I reckon it takes a bit of getting used to. Russians will treat you well as long as you don't take the piss. They are very straightforward and pretty smart. What we English need to practice at is a bit of honesty. Deal with Russians honestly and you will find they like you a whole load more than some sneaky bastard who is trying to get one over.
How do you know this? Have you been to Russia and lived with Russians, or are you really basing everything you say on the writings found in a single book? I ask because you make these sort of claims about China as well, ven though you've never claimed to have even visited China. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 30, 2024 18:48:10 GMT
He admits the political process was not very democratic, but you also have to consider what Russia was like when President Putin took control and how it is now. He did a bit of a Thatcher trick and turned it around when it was facing disaster.
As the man was saying, Russians have gone though a number of distinct political phases, from the czars all the way to the current time, and each phase has been culturally different. For example during the soviet era they were very ideological, but as the soviet system failed they lost faith in ideology, so today the Russian view is kind of an expression of irony. They make jokes about the way things work in Russia, but things still get done. It's a funny kind of culture and I reckon it takes a bit of getting used to. Russians will treat you well as long as you don't take the piss. They are very straightforward and pretty smart. What we English need to practice at is a bit of honesty. Deal with Russians honestly and you will find they like you a whole load more than some sneaky bastard who is trying to get one over.
How do you know this? Have you been to Russia and lived with Russians, or are you really basing everything you say on the writings found in a single book? I ask because you make these sort of claims about China as well, ven though you've never claimed to have even visited China. It is what I have observed. I do not need to prove anything about myself to make observations. Just because they conflict with the popular view. Actually i think it is the other way around and most people read too much shit in the British press. I purposefully limit my exposure to this hate brainwashing. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2024 19:18:33 GMT
How do you know this? Have you been to Russia and lived with Russians, or are you really basing everything you say on the writings found in a single book? I ask because you make these sort of claims about China as well, ven though you've never claimed to have even visited China. It is what I have observed. I do not need to prove anything about myself to make observations. Just because they conflict with the popular view. Actually i think it is the other way around and most people read too much shit in the British press. I purposefully limit my exposure to this hate brainwashing. It was a specific question and an important one considering you're claiming some sort of expert understanding on Russia and China. If you're just trying to conflict with the British press (it was just GB News earlier) then you should make this clear, considering this is Mind Zone where things are meant to be backed up with facts, and not childish claims of opposing an incredibly vague term like "hate brainwashing". We don't require more thought police.
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Post by bancroft on Mar 30, 2024 19:37:29 GMT
I bet Assange now wished he had joined the other US chap in Moscow rather than hang around for the US to extradite him.
What was his crime making public US killings of civilians in the Middle East.
Some would call that good journalism.
What it shows is our own system is bad at times yet they have a better PR as they tend to brush things under the carpet.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 30, 2024 19:40:56 GMT
It is what I have observed. I do not need to prove anything about myself to make observations. Just because they conflict with the popular view. Actually i think it is the other way around and most people read too much shit in the British press. I purposefully limit my exposure to this hate brainwashing. It was a specific question and an important one considering you're claiming some sort of expert understanding on Russia and China. If you're just trying to conflict with the British press (it was just GB News earlier) then you should make this clear, considering this is Mind Zone where things are meant to be backed up with facts, and not childish claims of opposing an incredibly vague term like "hate brainwashing". We don't require more thought police.
I have not claimed expert understanding of Russia and China. Vinny has read a great deal more than I have on Russia. I tried to point this out earlier. My view comes from those Russians who I have come into contact with for one reason or another. They have always been decent towards me and have a great sense of humour. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 30, 2024 19:50:59 GMT
I bet Assange now wished he had joined the other US chap in Moscow rather than hang around for the US to extradite him. What was his crime making public US killings of civilians in the Middle East. Some would call that good journalism. What it shows is our own system is bad at times yet they have a better PR as they tend to brush things under the carpet. I saw some recent interview with a Russian chap who I seem to recall was part of the senior KGB/intelligence lot, as in some head of department, and he came across a little bit like Lavrov in him mannerisms. The media interviewer was discussing Assange and he just let drop something like, you know we probably gave him a bit of a helping hand with his intelligence. Indeed that was what I was thinking all along. The intelligence he reported was so sensitive that you simply could not pass it off as a kid with a computer. KGB are some of the world's top hackers. They just needed a place they might wish to dump a few anonymous documents. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2024 19:57:43 GMT
It was a specific question and an important one considering you're claiming some sort of expert understanding on Russia and China. If you're just trying to conflict with the British press (it was just GB News earlier) then you should make this clear, considering this is Mind Zone where things are meant to be backed up with facts, and not childish claims of opposing an incredibly vague term like "hate brainwashing". We don't require more thought police.
I have not claimed expert understanding of Russia and China. Vinny has read a great deal more than I have on Russia. I tried to point this out earlier. My view comes from those Russians who I have come into contact with for one reason or another. They have always been decent towards me and have a great sense of humour. But the topic is about a Putin or the regime, not some random Russian you bumped into. Still, if this is your only source then I guess we can leave it there. I have no time for our own fascist establishment that is so obviously controlled by the US. See where I'm going with this? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 30, 2024 20:10:11 GMT
I have not claimed expert understanding of Russia and China. Vinny has read a great deal more than I have on Russia. I tried to point this out earlier. My view comes from those Russians who I have come into contact with for one reason or another. They have always been decent towards me and have a great sense of humour. But the topic is about a Putin or the regime, not some random Russian you bumped into. Still, if this is your only source then I guess we can leave it there. I have no time for our own fascist establishment that is so obviously controlled by the US. See where I'm going with this? You keep on making assumptions, which is annoying. Why not take what I say at face value and if you think something does not agree with it then mention what it is rather than to try and discredit the messenger. The book I recommended in the first place discusses the cultural aspects to modern Russia. It would broaden Vinny's understanding in my view and well worth a read if you are interested in the country. That was my point. I don't recommend shit or just things that agree with personal biases. It's the conclusion of a man's life's work in studying the country. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2024 20:26:39 GMT
But the topic is about a Putin or the regime, not some random Russian you bumped into. Still, if this is your only source then I guess we can leave it there. I have no time for our own fascist establishment that is so obviously controlled by the US. See where I'm going with this? You keep on making assumptions, which is annoying. Why not take what I say at face value and if you think something does not agree with it then mention what it is rather than to try and discredit the messenger. The book I recommended in the first place discusses the cultural aspects to modern Russia. It would broaden Vinny's understanding in my view and well worth a read if you are interested in the country. That was my point. I don't recommend shit or just things that agree with personal biases. It's the conclusion of a man's life's work in studying the country. I haven't tried to discredit you, I've been trying to find credibility in your argument and so far I have found very little outside of one book. I am going on what you're posting, even if you're becoming defensive to any attempt to probe you further.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 30, 2024 20:40:35 GMT
You keep on making assumptions, which is annoying. Why not take what I say at face value and if you think something does not agree with it then mention what it is rather than to try and discredit the messenger. The book I recommended in the first place discusses the cultural aspects to modern Russia. It would broaden Vinny's understanding in my view and well worth a read if you are interested in the country. That was my point. I don't recommend shit or just things that agree with personal biases. It's the conclusion of a man's life's work in studying the country. I haven't tried to discredit you, I've been trying to find credibility in your argument and so far I have found very little outside of one book. I am going on what you're posting, even if you're becoming defensive to any attempt to probe you further.
What I said there was the same as what this chap had told me. If I'm wrong then it means he is wrong as well, but the thing is he is Russian so like he has been to Russia... |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 31, 2024 5:43:26 GMT
Anna Politkovskaya was Russian (and didn't emigrate).
Alexander Litvinenko was Russian and fled the dictatorship for his life.
Garry Kasparov is Russian and fled the dictatorship for his life.
Bill Browder emigrated to Russia in the 90's to do business there, but was persecuted after blowing the whistle on corruption, his friend and accountant Sergei Magnitsky was murdered by the regime.
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