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Post by see2 on Dec 8, 2022 11:16:22 GMT
Good post. In reality, I do think that Labour genuinely want to reform the HOL (into something far more malleable to their ideals) but they haven't actually got a clue how to go about it.
New Labour did reform the HoL's, Starmer wants to replace it with an elected chamber, just how he could make such favourable to Labour would need some explaining. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 8, 2022 11:23:19 GMT
That's one of those dumb statements that comes up from time to time. Of course Companies pay tax - it's called Corporation tax. Of course Companies are owned by people - with bigger ones often owned by pension funds and other investment vehicles. As always with tax and services, you can have low tax and low quality public services, you can have higher tax and higher quality public services, it is very hard to lave low tax and high quality public services. Talking of dumb - try learning about Tax Incidence. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 8, 2022 11:28:37 GMT
That's one of those dumb statements that comes up from time to time. Of course Companies pay tax - it's called Corporation tax. Of course Companies are owned by people - with bigger ones often owned by pension funds and other investment vehicles. As always with tax and services, you can have low tax and low quality public services, you can have higher tax and higher quality public services, it is very hard to lave low tax and high quality public services. Talking of dumb - try learning about Tax Incidence. It could be argued that it is the producers of wealth i.e. the workers at the front of production who cover all the taxes. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 8, 2022 12:26:53 GMT
It could be argued that it is the producers of wealth i.e. the workers at the front of production who cover all the taxes. It is the group of people who engage in some productive endeavour that they don't get paid for because of taxation All of them are (broadly) workers |
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Post by see2 on Dec 8, 2022 14:53:26 GMT
It could be argued that it is the producers of wealth i.e. the workers at the front of production who cover all the taxes. It is the group of people who engage in some productive endeavour that they don't get paid for because of taxation All of them are (broadly) workers Hmm, so it's not just the least rewarded for their efforts? |
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Post by Orac on Dec 8, 2022 15:45:03 GMT
Hmm, so it's not just the least rewarded for their efforts? Not sure what you mean here. Few people are in a position in which they are likely to be rewarded for mere 'efforts' |
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Post by see2 on Dec 8, 2022 20:07:40 GMT
Hmm, so it's not just the least rewarded for their efforts? Not sure what you mean here. Few people are in a position in which they are likely to be rewarded for mere 'efforts' You appear to have a limited understanding of the word 'efforts'. |
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Post by bancroft on Dec 8, 2022 21:37:16 GMT
Of course we can look at the longer term view of austerity, it failed to deliver over a decade. I'd also say that many people on this forum would credit Boris with the Covid recovery. Some of that is possibly earned. I disagree lockdown ended as our national debt exceed 100% if it continued we would have risked ending up like Greece. Most people suffered no worse than a bad flu it was massive overkill while some certain companies made mega bucks and politicians proudly crowed they had saved the Western World. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 8, 2022 21:46:12 GMT
I recall him boasting that he had beaten the boom-bust cycle and that we were entering a new paradigm that broke all the old rules. They were referring to the old habit of governments lowering interest rates so people borrow then hiking them to bleed to poor and feed the rich. By handing interest rates to the BofE they stopped this. Never was the claim supposed to be about a world recession. Interestingly. Liz Truss tried very hard to re-introduce it by crashing the UK's credit rating. She's got it up to 6-7% |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 8, 2022 21:47:16 GMT
Right. So we have now found: 1. Labour didn't "create" the global recession. 2. Gordon Brown didn't deny there was a recession. Which point that you were trying to make was actually correct? Labour were a large part of global recession as they tried to push globalism behind the scenes, Gordon Brown did deny it because he didn't see it coming, is what you should have learnt, but then I just saw a flying pig. Lol. You think the UK influences the global economy. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 8, 2022 22:59:31 GMT
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Post by Toreador on Dec 8, 2022 23:11:15 GMT
Time you wnt to bed seer2, an old man like you needs his sleep ready for tomorrow's challenges. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 8, 2022 23:12:39 GMT
I recall him boasting that he had beaten the boom-bust cycle and that we were entering a new paradigm that broke all the old rules. They were referring to the old habit of governments lowering interest rates so people borrow then hiking them to bleed to poor and feed the rich. By handing interest rates to the BofE they stopped this. Never was the claim supposed to be about a world recession. Interestingly. Liz Truss tried very hard to re-introduce it by crashing the UK's credit rating. She's got it up to 6-7% It was even referred to in the Guardian article that Mags posted. Brown's comment could not have covered a world recession so all the propaganda inferring that it did was nothing more than insinuated lies. A typical right-wing approach. Brown always referred to our "boom and bust economy" not international boom and bust. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 8, 2022 23:15:15 GMT
Time you wnt to bed seer2, an old man like you needs his sleep ready for tomorrow's challenges. Nah, you youngies need the stability and depth of thought that comes with age  |
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Post by Orac on Dec 8, 2022 23:31:09 GMT
I recall him boasting that he had beaten the boom-bust cycle and that we were entering a new paradigm that broke all the old rules. They were referring to the old habit of governments lowering interest rates so people borrow then hiking them to bleed to poor and feed the rich. What he (and you) are describing in rather glib, politicised terms is 'the business cycle'. |
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