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Post by zanygame on Mar 9, 2024 22:17:12 GMT
Which they don't. Oh and cities didn't suddenly appear 20 years ago. Ah but all the research by those damned sceptics has shown that a proportion are in areas subject to upward forcing and cities did not just appear twenty years ago but many of the stations have been overwhelmed by urban development in the last twenty years. You are basing your hypothesis of 1.54C warming or as some like to label it dangerous uncontrolled warming on at best suspect data. As a businessman would you do this in the normal run of events? Yawn. And we're back to every scientific institute on the globe is lying.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 10, 2024 8:26:20 GMT
Ah but all the research by those damned sceptics has shown that a proportion are in areas subject to upward forcing and cities did not just appear twenty years ago but many of the stations have been overwhelmed by urban development in the last twenty years. You are basing your hypothesis of 1.54C warming or as some like to label it dangerous uncontrolled warming on at best suspect data. As a businessman would you do this in the normal run of events? Yawn. And we're back to every scientific institute on the globe is lying. No we are back to rigorous scepticism as part of the scientific method, the method all the scientists in the world are supposed to be working to. Why would they dodge the hard questions on their findings, we know why politicians dodge the hard questions, we can only wonder why scientists do. By the way the data is not manipulated by the sceptics, nor is it invented by the sceptics, all the information I have given is in the public domain, is based on official assessments of groups and organisations that are both climate savvy and part of the official input into the IPCC reports.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 8:51:23 GMT
Yawn. And we're back to every scientific institute on the globe is lying. No we are back to rigorous scepticism as part of the scientific method, the method all the scientists in the world are supposed to be working to. Why would they dodge the hard questions on their findings, we know why politicians dodge the hard questions, we can only wonder why scientists do. By the way the data is not manipulated by the sceptics, nor is it invented by the sceptics, all the information I have given is in the public domain, is based on official assessments of groups and organisations that are both climate savvy and part of the official input into the IPCC reports. So either all the scientific institutes are stupid or they are lying. Apparently none have question or investigated the figures they are fed. Yeah sure.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 10, 2024 11:25:01 GMT
No we are back to rigorous scepticism as part of the scientific method, the method all the scientists in the world are supposed to be working to. Why would they dodge the hard questions on their findings, we know why politicians dodge the hard questions, we can only wonder why scientists do. By the way the data is not manipulated by the sceptics, nor is it invented by the sceptics, all the information I have given is in the public domain, is based on official assessments of groups and organisations that are both climate savvy and part of the official input into the IPCC reports. So either all the scientific institutes are stupid or they are lying. Apparently none have question or investigated the figures they are fed. Yeah sure. So where are those investigations and replies to the specific points made then? Rigorous scepticism is a process of questioning and addressing and should be part of the process undertaken by the scientists supplying the IPCC with their information. If there are queries on the data there should be a clear line of addressing that point. Dismissing the sceptics as charlatans and corrupt scientists is not addressing the points made on a regular basis. The MO of reply very often seems to be along the lines of pseudo science site, bloggers ugh, flat earthers and in the pay of the fossil fuel industry. Those are not replies they are shooting the messenger. A bit like when one says I thought 2+2 =4 the answer is you would wouldn't you; not relevant at all.
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Post by sheepy on Mar 10, 2024 11:51:16 GMT
No we are back to rigorous scepticism as part of the scientific method, the method all the scientists in the world are supposed to be working to. Why would they dodge the hard questions on their findings, we know why politicians dodge the hard questions, we can only wonder why scientists do. By the way the data is not manipulated by the sceptics, nor is it invented by the sceptics, all the information I have given is in the public domain, is based on official assessments of groups and organisations that are both climate savvy and part of the official input into the IPCC reports. So either all the scientific institutes are stupid or they are lying. Apparently none have question or investigated the figures they are fed. Yeah sure. Are you sure the workman hasn't been given the wrong tools for the job?
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 12:34:38 GMT
So either all the scientific institutes are stupid or they are lying. Apparently none have question or investigated the figures they are fed. Yeah sure. So where are those investigations and replies to the specific points made then? Rigorous scepticism is a process of questioning and addressing and should be part of the process undertaken by the scientists supplying the IPCC with their information. If there are queries on the data there should be a clear line of addressing that point. Dismissing the sceptics as charlatans and corrupt scientists is not addressing the points made on a regular basis. The MO of reply very often seems to be along the lines of pseudo science site, bloggers ugh, flat earthers and in the pay of the fossil fuel industry. Those are not replies they are shooting the messenger. A bit like when one says I thought 2+2 =4 the answer is you would wouldn't you; not relevant at all. I don't know where they are because they don't exist. They are piffling little anomalies that any proper scientist dismisses as irrelevant. One weather station at Heathrow another next to a white building in Texas. Blogger clickbait is all you've presented me. Alongside opinion pieces saying it means they could be out so we don't know. Well I say every scientific institution says we do know, we know Co2 is increasing rapidly and we know its warming the planet. Enough people are seeing it for themselves now (Which is a shame because it means we left it too long) but means deniers are now just an irritation and not a threat to the planet.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 10, 2024 13:01:19 GMT
So where are those investigations and replies to the specific points made then? Rigorous scepticism is a process of questioning and addressing and should be part of the process undertaken by the scientists supplying the IPCC with their information. If there are queries on the data there should be a clear line of addressing that point. Dismissing the sceptics as charlatans and corrupt scientists is not addressing the points made on a regular basis. The MO of reply very often seems to be along the lines of pseudo science site, bloggers ugh, flat earthers and in the pay of the fossil fuel industry. Those are not replies they are shooting the messenger. A bit like when one says I thought 2+2 =4 the answer is you would wouldn't you; not relevant at all. I don't know where they are because they don't exist. They are piffling little anomalies that any proper scientist dismisses as irrelevant. One weather station at Heathrow another next to a white building in Texas. Blogger clickbait is all you've presented me. Alongside opinion pieces saying it means they could be out so we don't know. Well I say every scientific institution says we do know, we know Co2 is increasing rapidly and we know its warming the planet. Enough people are seeing it for themselves now (Which is a shame because it means we left it too long) but means deniers are now just an irritation and not a threat to the planet. I can only assume you did not read or even skim the report upon which this thread is based. The World Meteorological Organisation ( a UN 0rganisation) has rated the Met Offices weather stations and found that their accuracy, as outlined in the report, is in many cases (50%) uncertainty in the readings of 2C and with some greater than that of uncertainty of 5C. Some have an uncertainty of 1C in fact approx 80% of the Met office stations as classed by the UN have a 1C uncertainty or worse. This is not one weather station at Heathrow or one next to a white building in Texas, this is 80% of teh UK weather stations feeding into the climate emergency whereby the planetary warming is stated to be 1.54C, note the two decimal places. It seems trite and churlish to mention that we only know things and the level of those things from the information we are provided with and if that information is suspect do we then really know something, I would suggest not. All that is asked for is that the Met office respond and so far they are silent
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 10, 2024 13:28:57 GMT
No we are back to rigorous scepticism as part of the scientific method, the method all the scientists in the world are supposed to be working to. Why would they dodge the hard questions on their findings, we know why politicians dodge the hard questions, we can only wonder why scientists do. By the way the data is not manipulated by the sceptics, nor is it invented by the sceptics, all the information I have given is in the public domain, is based on official assessments of groups and organisations that are both climate savvy and part of the official input into the IPCC reports. So either all the scientific institutes are stupid or they are lying. Apparently none have question or investigated the figures they are fed. Yeah sure. Science is very corrupt these days. I'm not implying here GW is a lie, but pointing out universities are liars, and this knowledge comes from many people who have done research in them. This guy's channel is dedicated to this subject. www.youtube.com/@drandystapleton I can give you dozens more accounts if you like, but this chap gives a a good comprehensive overview of how academic life is.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 10, 2024 19:41:42 GMT
I don't know where they are because they don't exist. They are piffling little anomalies that any proper scientist dismisses as irrelevant. One weather station at Heathrow another next to a white building in Texas. Blogger clickbait is all you've presented me. Alongside opinion pieces saying it means they could be out so we don't know. Well I say every scientific institution says we do know, we know Co2 is increasing rapidly and we know its warming the planet. Enough people are seeing it for themselves now (Which is a shame because it means we left it too long) but means deniers are now just an irritation and not a threat to the planet. I can only assume you did not read or even skim the report upon which this thread is based. The World Meteorological Organisation ( a UN 0rganisation) has rated the Met Offices weather stations and found that their accuracy, as outlined in the report, is in many cases (50%) uncertainty in the readings of 2C and with some greater than that of uncertainty of 5C. Some have an uncertainty of 1C in fact approx 80% of the Met office stations as classed by the UN have a 1C uncertainty or worse. This is not one weather station at Heathrow or one next to a white building in Texas, this is 80% of teh UK weather stations feeding into the climate emergency whereby the planetary warming is stated to be 1.54C, note the two decimal places. It seems trite and churlish to mention that we only know things and the level of those things from the information we are provided with and if that information is suspect do we then really know something, I would suggest not. All that is asked for is that the Met office respond and so far they are silent Its the "some" "up to" The met office, not the world or the satellites. Cherry picking bits in the desperation for a last minute result. Where's YOUR scrutiny? YOUR percentages of the met versus the world, your admission that a degree out can be down as well as up. Your enquiring mind asking why glaciers are melting faster than ever across the planet which according to you isn't getting warmer. Why with your scientific mind does not the opening of the Bering straits 3 months earlier than normal and a hundred other things all going the same direction not hint to you that the general readings are likely to be right.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 10, 2024 20:55:30 GMT
I can only assume you did not read or even skim the report upon which this thread is based. The World Meteorological Organisation ( a UN 0rganisation) has rated the Met Offices weather stations and found that their accuracy, as outlined in the report, is in many cases (50%) uncertainty in the readings of 2C and with some greater than that of uncertainty of 5C. Some have an uncertainty of 1C in fact approx 80% of the Met office stations as classed by the UN have a 1C uncertainty or worse. This is not one weather station at Heathrow or one next to a white building in Texas, this is 80% of teh UK weather stations feeding into the climate emergency whereby the planetary warming is stated to be 1.54C, note the two decimal places. It seems trite and churlish to mention that we only know things and the level of those things from the information we are provided with and if that information is suspect do we then really know something, I would suggest not. All that is asked for is that the Met office respond and so far they are silent Its the "some" "up to" The met office, not the world or the satellites. Cherry picking bits in the desperation for a last minute result. Where's YOUR scrutiny? YOUR percentages of the met versus the world, your admission that a degree out can be down as well as up. Your enquiring mind asking why glaciers are melting faster than ever across the planet which according to you isn't getting warmer. Why with your scientific mind does not the opening of the Bering straits 3 months earlier than normal and a hundred other things all going the same direction not hint to you that the general readings are likely to be right. Jumping to conclusions again. I have not said the planet is not becoming warmer overall; why, by how much and what will happen are all realistically unknown. A degree of uncertainty is a degree of uncertainty it matters little if it is up or down what matters is what it is presented as. The planet may be 2.5C warmer it may also be only 0.5 C warmer, the point is no one knows. You seem to be saying the uncertainty does not matter as the average is what counts. Do you really need me to tell you that averaging out inaccurate readings does not make anything more accurate. My scrutiny resides in the unanswered questions and the consideration of the details that are at best sketchy and the noticing that in order to refute the questions they do not answer they frequently attack the questioner. The unanswered questions are not the 'have you stopped beating your wife' type questions they are clearly the 'your figures say this is the case' type questions What has been cherry - picked. The WMO rate the Met offices stations, they have not cherry picked the bad ones they have assessed the lot as far as I can see and stated that 80% have an uncertainty of at least 1C with the majority having an uncertainty of at least 2C. There are many reasons why things happen. Why was Franklin ice bound in teh 1840s for several years when normally that area is open water in those decades. Why did Scott in 1901 get his ship all the way up McMurdo sound but in 1911 could not get past Cape Evans. Why is the Antarctic sea ice increasing if teh planet is warming in a catastrophic way. There is normal variation of many things and systems and climate parameters shift and change as a multitude of different factors affect the planet and no doubt man has an effect. So far the predictions on what will happen are seriously at odds with the actual observations being made.
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 11, 2024 7:38:29 GMT
Round and round. It's not just urbanisation that has increased vastly to house the 8 fold increase in population - although urbanisation is certainly a cause of "apparent" global warming because our weather stations are increasingly in urban areas. The extra people need food and infrastructure and to provide all this over 70% of the land area of the planet has been "repurposed" - which means trees and forests have been cut down to provide land for crops etc. I live on Dartmoor and 100 years ago Dartmoor was a vast forest. Nowadays there's barely a tree on it. They were chopped down to provide wood for ship building and stuff. Man has made huge changes to the planet's land surface as you can see by looking at pictures of the planet between 1970 and now. It's unrecognisable. And nearly ALL of the changes we've made cause warming. This is a demonstrable scientific fact. What's NOT a demonstrable scientific fact is that CO2 causes warming - any experiments to show this in the Earth's environment have failed. I asked you how population increase was causing global warming. If its more than one thing put them in order of significance.Dartmoor was deforested in the Bronze age a thousand plus years ago. Yes reducing tree coverage does increase atmospheric Co2 But no one has ever said otherwise, indeed for the first time in centuries the people of earth have planted more trees than they've cut down. So you are in favour of tackling atmospheric Co2 by planting trees, but not by stopping fossil fuels. Finally your 70% figure is too high, even the highest estimates talk of 50%. That includes agriculture which in most cases just replaces other plants rather than trees. Did you know the word forest did not mean covered with trees. It meant unfarmed open land suitable for hunting. Mostly it was open woodland or scrub with a few trees. The concept of "forest" is often misused to imply the country was completely covered in trees. Anyway I of course population growth is the cause of global warming. What I asked you is how they were causing warming. Scientists think its mainly creation of Co2 by burning fossil fuels, etc. They say we should help the planet absorb that Co2 by planting trees. Transpiration cools the area around the plant by releasing water vapour into the air at low levels. It that water vapor falls it returns to earth, if it rises then it becomes a greenhouse gas. These are the two primary drivers, both affect the cause of global warming which is Co2. Why do you object to one of them? Congratulations any. Almost every single thing in this post is either wrong or irrelevant. You just make stuff up zany. BTW I've refrained from asking you before but you're writing such a load of nonsense I have to ask. What's your background in science?
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 11, 2024 8:07:39 GMT
No we are back to rigorous scepticism as part of the scientific method, the method all the scientists in the world are supposed to be working to. Why would they dodge the hard questions on their findings, we know why politicians dodge the hard questions, we can only wonder why scientists do. By the way the data is not manipulated by the sceptics, nor is it invented by the sceptics, all the information I have given is in the public domain, is based on official assessments of groups and organisations that are both climate savvy and part of the official input into the IPCC reports. So either all the scientific institutes are stupid or they are lying. Apparently none have question or investigated the figures they are fed. Yeah sure. Again you don't understand the scientific process. There are indeed MANY so-called scientists who are stupid (or just get things wrong) and/or lie. There always have been, but it's a veritable epidemic nowadays, with pseudo-science proliferating everywhere. The usual way that this is weeded out is by the process of peer-review. Scientists write their experimental results and their potential theories as to why, and other scientists review their paper by either replicating or reproducing their research. A lot of junk science is exposed in this way. The problem with the climate change research is that it is NOT peer-reviewed. The Earth is far too complex to be replicated and there's only ONE set of data that we have - data (of varying accuracy) that has been collected over the decades. And the theories that the IPCC uses are built in to their model - which exists as millions of lines of code on a supercomputer. How on earth could anyone peer-review that? You'd need an army of scientists of various specialisms and a vast budget. It's impossible. Of course the data can be changed - and the IPCC is adept at this - and we know that they've been playing ducks and drakes with the data for years. But no one can peer-review anything else. All we can do is look at the predictions that their model makes and notice that they're consistently wrong (all in the direction of exaggeration of warming). So the theories are wrong. And if anyone - scientist or not - tries to draw any conclusions from this model they are indeed lairs. The use of Kalman filtering (using their own model to detect "inaccurate" readings) was the last straw for some scientists, who resigned a few years ago.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2024 8:11:07 GMT
I asked you how population increase was causing global warming. If its more than one thing put them in order of significance.Dartmoor was deforested in the Bronze age a thousand plus years ago. Yes reducing tree coverage does increase atmospheric Co2 But no one has ever said otherwise, indeed for the first time in centuries the people of earth have planted more trees than they've cut down. So you are in favour of tackling atmospheric Co2 by planting trees, but not by stopping fossil fuels. Finally your 70% figure is too high, even the highest estimates talk of 50%. That includes agriculture which in most cases just replaces other plants rather than trees. Did you know the word forest did not mean covered with trees. It meant unfarmed open land suitable for hunting. Mostly it was open woodland or scrub with a few trees. The concept of "forest" is often misused to imply the country was completely covered in trees. Anyway I of course population growth is the cause of global warming. What I asked you is how they were causing warming. Scientists think its mainly creation of Co2 by burning fossil fuels, etc. They say we should help the planet absorb that Co2 by planting trees. Transpiration cools the area around the plant by releasing water vapour into the air at low levels. It that water vapor falls it returns to earth, if it rises then it becomes a greenhouse gas. These are the two primary drivers, both affect the cause of global warming which is Co2. Why do you object to one of them? Congratulations any. Almost every single thing in this post is either wrong or irrelevant. You just make stuff up zany. BTW I've refrained from asking you before but you're writing such a load of nonsense I have to ask. What's your background in science? Says the blogger kid.
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 11, 2024 9:13:29 GMT
Says the guy who cuts and pastes all his posts from google.
The reason that population increase causes warming is nothing to do with CO2. As I said it's because ALL the changes that have to be made to support a larger population - housing, infrastructure, food production etc - directly cause warming. And that can be verified experimentally (unlike CO2 warming).
BTW the 70% "repurposing" of the land surface came from the National Geographic and I gave you the link. More recently Attenborough said in his latest series that it was more like 80% repurposing.
As for your scientific background, you don't have to say because your posts make it obvious that you have none. Google may be a useful tool in many ways but you need a firm grounding in a subject in order to use it properly. If you don't have that you can't differentiate between fact and fiction.
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