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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2024 8:10:03 GMT
Its true that no one knows the true cause of the planet warming BUT everyone knows that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. If there were no reduction in some areas of green house gas production then CO2 would be at an even greater level than it is. If people voice idiotic comments then it is just as well there are others to recognise it for what it is. CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but water vapour is a far stronger greenhouse gas (about 80 times stronger) and is present in the atmosphere in far greater concentrations than CO2 (which is a trace gas). But like many factors that influence our climate they both have complex effects on our climate/weather. They both can cause warming or cooling. Water can exist either as a vapour causing significant warming but it can also condense and form clouds which cause significant cooling. And CO2 can cause warming but it also causes cooling because it drives photosynthesis which uses vast amounts of the Sun's energy to grow plants. The Earth is a relatively stable system because the various factors combine to keep it so. So if CO2 increases it may tend to cause warming but it also causes cooling. Unfortunately the models that the IPCC and various bodies use don't model the cooling effects of CO2 - too complicated. In fact they don't even model the warming effect - they simply make a hypothesis that CO2 causes warming using a coefficient that says for every ppm increase in concentration of CO2 the Earth will warm by x degrees C. That's the level at which our modeling is at. I suggest you do a bit of reading about the subject before you call those, who question the climate orthodoxy, "idiotic". Sigh. And why is there more water in the atmosphere? Water Vapor Feedback: The increase in temperature caused by greenhouse gases leads to an increase in the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere through a process called the water vapor feedback. As the atmosphere warms, more water evaporates from the Earth's surface and enters the atmosphere as vapor. Water vapor is also a potent greenhouse gas, so this increase in water vapor further enhances the greenhouse effect, leading to even more warming. |
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Post by sheepy on Mar 8, 2024 8:13:34 GMT
CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but water vapour is a far stronger greenhouse gas (about 80 times stronger) and is present in the atmosphere in far greater concentrations than CO2 (which is a trace gas). But like many factors that influence our climate they both have complex effects on our climate/weather. They both can cause warming or cooling. Water can exist either as a vapour causing significant warming but it can also condense and form clouds which cause significant cooling. And CO2 can cause warming but it also causes cooling because it drives photosynthesis which uses vast amounts of the Sun's energy to grow plants. The Earth is a relatively stable system because the various factors combine to keep it so. So if CO2 increases it may tend to cause warming but it also causes cooling. Unfortunately the models that the IPCC and various bodies use don't model the cooling effects of CO2 - too complicated. In fact they don't even model the warming effect - they simply make a hypothesis that CO2 causes warming using a coefficient that says for every ppm increase in concentration of CO2 the Earth will warm by x degrees C. That's the level at which our modeling is at. I suggest you do a bit of reading about the subject before you call those, who question the climate orthodoxy, "idiotic". Sigh. And why is there more water in the atmosphere? Water Vapor Feedback: The increase in temperature caused by greenhouse gases leads to an increase in the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere through a process called the water vapor feedback. As the atmosphere warms, more water evaporates from the Earth's surface and enters the atmosphere as vapor. Water vapor is also a potent greenhouse gas, so this increase in water vapor further enhances the greenhouse effect, leading to even more warming. Water vapour tends to add growth Zany or otherwise deserts are formed. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2024 8:20:48 GMT
Sigh. And why is there more water in the atmosphere? Water Vapor Feedback: The increase in temperature caused by greenhouse gases leads to an increase in the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere through a process called the water vapor feedback. As the atmosphere warms, more water evaporates from the Earth's surface and enters the atmosphere as vapor. Water vapor is also a potent greenhouse gas, so this increase in water vapor further enhances the greenhouse effect, leading to even more warming. Water vapour tends to add growth Zany or otherwise deserts are formed. Well done give yourself a sticker. |
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Post by sheepy on Mar 8, 2024 8:26:44 GMT
Water vapour tends to add growth Zany or otherwise deserts are formed. Well done give yourself a sticker. No need the bullshit is so full of holes, it is laughable at times. When rain becomes the next thing to attack it becomes fairly obvious your masters are after a mass population decrease as they are now attacking everything that causes natural growth. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 8, 2024 9:16:43 GMT
I'm surprised that ANYONE denies "man made climate change" - I certainly never have. Increasing the population of the Earth from about 1 billion (in 1850) to nearly 8 billion now is BOUND to cause climate change. As usual you've forgotten what the argument is about zany. Lets run with the increased population idea. Its obviously true that increased population IS the cause of MAN made climate change. For if there were no humans there would be no MAN. More specifically how are more humans causing climate change. Why are cities several degrees warmer than rural areas? Concreting over the planet is a very well known cause of warming - and of flooding. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 8, 2024 9:24:08 GMT
CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but water vapour is a far stronger greenhouse gas (about 80 times stronger) and is present in the atmosphere in far greater concentrations than CO2 (which is a trace gas). But like many factors that influence our climate they both have complex effects on our climate/weather. They both can cause warming or cooling. Water can exist either as a vapour causing significant warming but it can also condense and form clouds which cause significant cooling. And CO2 can cause warming but it also causes cooling because it drives photosynthesis which uses vast amounts of the Sun's energy to grow plants. The Earth is a relatively stable system because the various factors combine to keep it so. So if CO2 increases it may tend to cause warming but it also causes cooling. Unfortunately the models that the IPCC and various bodies use don't model the cooling effects of CO2 - too complicated. In fact they don't even model the warming effect - they simply make a hypothesis that CO2 causes warming using a coefficient that says for every ppm increase in concentration of CO2 the Earth will warm by x degrees C. That's the level at which our modeling is at. I suggest you do a bit of reading about the subject before you call those, who question the climate orthodoxy, "idiotic". Sigh. And why is there more water in the atmosphere? Water Vapor Feedback: The increase in temperature caused by greenhouse gases leads to an increase in the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere through a process called the water vapor feedback. As the atmosphere warms, more water evaporates from the Earth's surface and enters the atmosphere as vapor. Water vapor is also a potent greenhouse gas, so this increase in water vapor further enhances the greenhouse effect, leading to even more warming. You've made this up as usual. Water in the atmosphere can exist as ice, vapour or liquid and it's too complex to model. Like CO2 it can have both warming and cooling effects and they can't be modelled. However since the Earth has risen in temperature by only about 1 degree C since 1850 I'd say that this could easily be accounted for the vast changes we've made to the planet's land surface to house and feed the extra 7 million people. We've been carpeting the land with concrete and houses and chopping down trees and creating monocultures - all known to cause warming. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2024 10:34:23 GMT
Well done give yourself a sticker. No need the bullshit is so full of holes, it is laughable at times. When rain becomes the next thing to attack it becomes fairly obvious your masters are after a mass population decrease as they are now attacking everything that causes natural growth. There we have it. Decrease energy supply. Decrease food supply. Decrease population. All because of junk data and trusting "the science". We know how that goes, don't we? |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2024 20:40:19 GMT
Well done give yourself a sticker. No need the bullshit is so full of holes, it is laughable at times. When rain becomes the next thing to attack it becomes fairly obvious your masters are after a mass population decrease as they are now attacking everything that causes natural growth. Have you taken the wrong tablets again? |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 8, 2024 20:45:20 GMT
Lets run with the increased population idea. Its obviously true that increased population IS the cause of MAN made climate change. For if there were no humans there would be no MAN. More specifically how are more humans causing climate change. Why are cities several degrees warmer than rural areas? Concreting over the planet is a very well known cause of warming - and of flooding. Are you claiming its concrete? Cities are warmer because they trap heat. Urban areas cover 2% of the worlds surface. How much of the world do you think they need to concrete to create the global warming we see? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Mar 8, 2024 21:23:33 GMT
Why not just have more of them? You can connect them via radio using LoRaWAN for real-time monitoring. Your error reduces by a factor of n^ 0.5. If one cocked up it could easily be spotted by the readings on the surrounding ones.
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 9, 2024 6:51:15 GMT
Why are cities several degrees warmer than rural areas? Concreting over the planet is a very well known cause of warming - and of flooding. Are you claiming its concrete? Cities are warmer because they trap heat. Urban areas cover 2% of the worlds surface. How much of the world do you think they need to concrete to create the global warming we see? Round and round. It's not just urbanisation that has increased vastly to house the 8 fold increase in population - although urbanisation is certainly a cause of "apparent" global warming because our weather stations are increasingly in urban areas. The extra people need food and infrastructure and to provide all this over 70% of the land area of the planet has been "repurposed" - which means trees and forests have been cut down to provide land for crops etc. I live on Dartmoor and 100 years ago Dartmoor was a vast forest. Nowadays there's barely a tree on it. They were chopped down to provide wood for ship building and stuff. Man has made huge changes to the planet's land surface as you can see by looking at pictures of the planet between 1970 and now. It's unrecognisable. And nearly ALL of the changes we've made cause warming. This is a demonstrable scientific fact. What's NOT a demonstrable scientific fact is that CO2 causes warming - any experiments to show this in the Earth's environment have failed. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 9, 2024 8:07:12 GMT
Are you claiming its concrete? Cities are warmer because they trap heat. Urban areas cover 2% of the worlds surface. How much of the world do you think they need to concrete to create the global warming we see? Round and round. It's not just urbanisation that has increased vastly to house the 8 fold increase in population - although urbanisation is certainly a cause of "apparent" global warming because our weather stations are increasingly in urban areas. The extra people need food and infrastructure and to provide all this over 70% of the land area of the planet has been "repurposed" - which means trees and forests have been cut down to provide land for crops etc. I live on Dartmoor and 100 years ago Dartmoor was a vast forest. Nowadays there's barely a tree on it. They were chopped down to provide wood for ship building and stuff. Man has made huge changes to the planet's land surface as you can see by looking at pictures of the planet between 1970 and now. It's unrecognisable. And nearly ALL of the changes we've made cause warming. This is a demonstrable scientific fact. What's NOT a demonstrable scientific fact is that CO2 causes warming - any experiments to show this in the Earth's environment have failed. I asked you how population increase was causing global warming. If its more than one thing put them in order of significance.Dartmoor was deforested in the Bronze age a thousand plus years ago. Yes reducing tree coverage does increase atmospheric Co2 But no one has ever said otherwise, indeed for the first time in centuries the people of earth have planted more trees than they've cut down. So you are in favour of tackling atmospheric Co2 by planting trees, but not by stopping fossil fuels. Finally your 70% figure is too high, even the highest estimates talk of 50%. That includes agriculture which in most cases just replaces other plants rather than trees. Did you know the word forest did not mean covered with trees. It meant unfarmed open land suitable for hunting. Mostly it was open woodland or scrub with a few trees. The concept of "forest" is often misused to imply the country was completely covered in trees. Anyway I of course population growth is the cause of global warming. What I asked you is how they were causing warming. Scientists think its mainly creation of Co2 by burning fossil fuels, etc. They say we should help the planet absorb that Co2 by planting trees. Transpiration cools the area around the plant by releasing water vapour into the air at low levels. It that water vapor falls it returns to earth, if it rises then it becomes a greenhouse gas. These are the two primary drivers, both affect the cause of global warming which is Co2. Why do you object to one of them? |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 9, 2024 11:47:37 GMT
Why are cities several degrees warmer than rural areas? Concreting over the planet is a very well known cause of warming - and of flooding. Are you claiming its concrete? Cities are warmer because they trap heat. Urban areas cover 2% of the worlds surface. How much of the world do you think they need to concrete to create the global warming we see? 2% if the temperature readings you rely on are mostly in areas subject to this forcing upwards. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 9, 2024 13:35:01 GMT
Are you claiming its concrete? Cities are warmer because they trap heat. Urban areas cover 2% of the worlds surface. How much of the world do you think they need to concrete to create the global warming we see? 2% if the temperature readings you rely on are mostly in areas subject to this forcing upwards. Which they don't. Oh and cities didn't suddenly appear 20 years ago. |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 9, 2024 21:44:11 GMT
2% if the temperature readings you rely on are mostly in areas subject to this forcing upwards. Which they don't. Oh and cities didn't suddenly appear 20 years ago. Ah but all the research by those damned sceptics has shown that a proportion are in areas subject to upward forcing and cities did not just appear twenty years ago but many of the stations have been overwhelmed by urban development in the last twenty years. You are basing your hypothesis of 1.54C warming or as some like to label it dangerous uncontrolled warming on at best suspect data. As a businessman would you do this in the normal run of events? |
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