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Post by Handyman on Mar 2, 2024 13:02:43 GMT
Red what's that got to do with.being proud to be British. You do know millions of Commonwealth citizens fourt in 1st and 2nd world war . Also Apox 10% in the British Army are from..over seas. And else where on this forum. I havery mentioned about a very good friend who is Black had been a Red cap for over 20yrs . Are you saying he wasn't proud.of the Country. Charlie, you have gone off on a tangent there old chap. ZG lives in this country, yet he asks us if we're proud to be British. If I went to some countries and asked the same question I'd be lucky to escape with my life. Yet I'm supposed to sit here and take this shit. I am very proud of being British, if I were a religious man I would thank my god that I was born in this country. One of the reasons I feel British is because my parents were born here, my grandparents were born here etc et al. I have an infinite love of this country because it's my country and belive me I've seen other countries which is why I came home. But I'm not happy because the England of my youth is a very different country to England today. That sums it up for me, and the very reason I am leaving it
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 2, 2024 13:06:12 GMT
Are they? The Daily Mail, Mail on Sunday, The Sun, Sunday Sun, Telegraph, The Times, The Sunday Times, The Express, GB News, Talk TV are all pro immigration are they? I said 'on the whole'. The biggest MSM outlets are things like the BBC, and ITV and internet forms like social media. You can make a short of newspapers (a media form few bother with latterly) and a couple of stations , but this is covered in my original comment. The only point being made is that the MSM are clearly not overwhelmingly anti-immigration and this is something that is needed for your position to make any sense I've given you a list of mainstream news organisations which is far longer than the list of supposedly pro immigration agencies you gave me.
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Post by Orac on Mar 2, 2024 13:11:18 GMT
The biggest MSM outlets are things like the BBC, and ITV and internet forms like social media. You can make a short of newspapers (a media form few bother with latterly) and a couple of stations , but this is covered in my original comment. The only point being made is that the MSM are clearly not overwhelmingly anti-immigration and this is something that is needed for your position to make any sense I've given you a list of mainstream news organisations which is far longer than the list of supposedly pro immigration agencies you gave me. You gave me a short list of newspapers and two small tv channels. I said 'on the whole'. On the whole the MSNM is pro immigration. However, it really needs to be almost universally anti-immigration for your position to make sense - and that clearly is not the case
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 2, 2024 13:14:31 GMT
I've given you a list of mainstream news organisations which is far longer than the list of supposedly pro immigration agencies you gave me. You gave me a short list of newspapers and two small tv channels. I said 'on the whole'. On the whole the MSNM is pro immigration. However, it really needs to be almost universally anti-immigration for your position to make sense - and that clearly is not the case But you haven't backed up your claim that "on whole" the MSM is pro immigration. You mentioned two TV channels, I don't consider that "on the whole".
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Post by Orac on Mar 2, 2024 13:19:47 GMT
You gave me a short list of newspapers and two small tv channels. I said 'on the whole'. On the whole the MSNM is pro immigration. However, it really needs to be almost universally anti-immigration for your position to make sense - and that clearly is not the case But you haven't backed up your claim that "on whole" the MSM is pro immigration. I don't have to. - it's throw-away as a point. The msm is mostly pro immigration, but that isn't essential to my point. Your position relies on the MSM being near universally (or overwhelmingly) anti-immigration (which it clearly isn't) and mine doesn't rely on it being mostly pro.
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 2, 2024 13:26:48 GMT
But you haven't backed up your claim that "on whole" the MSM is pro immigration. I don't have to. - it's throw-away as a point. The msm is mostly pro immigration, but that isn't essential to my point. Your position relies on the MSM being near universally (or overwhelmingly) anti-immigration (which it clearly isn't) and mine doesn't rely on it being mostly pro. My position doesn't rely on the MSM being near universally (or overwhelmingly) anti-immigration. My position was to point out a list of media agencies who are not pro immigration which casts doubt on your claim that the MSM was on the whole pro-immigration.
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Post by Orac on Mar 2, 2024 13:33:41 GMT
I don't have to. - it's throw-away as a point. The msm is mostly pro immigration, but that isn't essential to my point. Your position relies on the MSM being near universally (or overwhelmingly) anti-immigration (which it clearly isn't) and mine doesn't rely on it being mostly pro. My position doesn't rely on the MSM being near universally (or overwhelmingly) anti-immigration. Yes it does, Your position is that the aggregate attitude of the country has been turned anti-immigration by the MSM through media influence. If there is an even roughly equal balance of both views presented in the MSM, then this becomes clearly a bit of a red herring. For your theory to make sense the MSM most be overwhelmingly anti immigration. This is clearly not the case. The most influential media in the UK are things like the BBC and ITV, not GB news. Your short list is just daft.
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 2, 2024 13:41:08 GMT
My position doesn't rely on the MSM being near universally (or overwhelmingly) anti-immigration. Yes it does, Your position is that the aggregate attitude of the country has been turned anti-immigration by the MSM through media influence. If there is an even roughly equal balance of both views presented in the MSM, then this becomes clearly a bit of a red herring. For your theory to make sense the MSM most be overwhelmingly anti immigration. This is clearly not the case. The most influential media in the UK are things like the BBC and ITV, not GB news. Your short list is just daft. My short list was a lot longer than your list of pro immigration agencies.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 2, 2024 13:50:19 GMT
As an ethnic minority you could claim preference for training for employment, you could claim discrimination if you felt unjustly passed over in favour of any other group, you may be given preference for employment against an 'equally qualified' English person, you could form an association with those of the same ethnic minority to pursue objectives of your choosing. How can be given preference for employment over an English person when I'm English? The facts would seem to contradict your argument about preferential treatment for ethnic minorities in employee: www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/unemployment-and-economic-inactivity/unemployment/latest/That seems to be the problem as I referred to if you claimed to be an ethnic minority ie Irish. What the distribution of anything is is immaterial, you asked what preferential treatment you could get and I outlined it.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2024 13:51:23 GMT
Unlike Muslims, Jews have the distinct advantage of being considered in law as a 'distinct racial grouping', like Sikhs but unlike Christians. In that sense, influence on and in the host society can be exercised on two distinct fronts, the ethnic and the religious. Muslims on the other hand can only advance, as a collective, on the one front - the religious. Which is what they tend to do. I do not disagree and it is a bit of a mess. Which is why there is a desperation for Islamophobia to be a recognised term within the race laws. The point of course is that either racial or religious there is a tendency for any group to be more interested in the advancement of its own. However Islam is the fast growing faith that has a clear them and us definition, Judaism has a similar outlook but is in terms of religion a much smaller profile. Or the rich, or the masons, or fellow football supporters. From the young Muslims I know I'd say it was going the same way as the Christians. Lots of people putting it down as their religion but not going to the mosque more than a few times a year.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 2, 2024 13:57:07 GMT
I do not disagree and it is a bit of a mess. Which is why there is a desperation for Islamophobia to be a recognised term within the race laws. The point of course is that either racial or religious there is a tendency for any group to be more interested in the advancement of its own. However Islam is the fast growing faith that has a clear them and us definition, Judaism has a similar outlook but is in terms of religion a much smaller profile. Or the rich, or the masons, or fellow football supporters. From the young Muslims I know I'd say it was going the same way as the Christians. Lots of people putting it down as their religion but not going to the mosque more than a few times a year. Indeed which proves the point that there is a tendency. It is a strange old world. If a man says he is a Muslim the left have no idea what he believes, if a man is a member of a political party like BNP or UKIP then almost to a man the left are clear in what that person believes. The only difference is that the Muslim states exactly what he believes whereas political parties are broad churches.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2024 14:01:02 GMT
Only in your head. A quick sum this morning, I employ about 45 people who are likely to be Muslim. We never discuss their religion and it has no effect on their work. They like a laugh and do their jobs. They don't stop twice a day to face mecca no long for Jihad or sharia law. You want them to be different so you can pass the buck for this countries failures onto a third party. You've been suckered. Truth is this countries ills are due to bad management and greed. But the people who influence you with their money are the very ones you keep electing. There's a very good reason we don't trust our politicians its because we keep electing crooks who rip us off. Yes and all the Christians you know conform to the biblical description. To say otherwise is just plain wrong. Starting to get repetitive again. Yes we and I all want immigration slowed or even stopped. Where with disagree is what that political agenda is. I think its about money. You think its about ? As I say its about money. Because a very small number are extremists. We spent a huge amount of money watching the IRA who were Catholics, we just didn't blame it all on the rest of the Catholics.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2024 14:11:06 GMT
Red what's that got to do with.being proud to be British. You do know millions of Commonwealth citizens fourt in 1st and 2nd world war . Also Apox 10% in the British Army are from..over seas. And else where on this forum. I havery mentioned about a very good friend who is Black had been a Red cap for over 20yrs . Are you saying he wasn't proud.of the Country. Charlie, you have gone off on a tangent there old chap. ZG lives in this country, yet he asks us if we're proud to be British. If I went to some countries and asked the same question I'd be lucky to escape with my life. Yet I'm supposed to sit here and take this shit.
I am very proud of being British, if I were a religious man I would thank my god that I was born in this country. One of the reasons I feel British is because my parents were born here, my grandparents were born here etc et al. I have an infinite love of this country because it's my country and belive me I've seen other countries which is why I came home. But I'm not happy because the England of my youth is a very different country to England today. Yes, if you compare us to the worst out there we can seem pretty good. Seems quite a low bar to me.
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 2, 2024 14:12:54 GMT
That seems to be the problem as I referred to if you claimed to be an ethnic minority ie Irish. What the distribution of anything is is immaterial, you asked what preferential treatment you could get and I outlined it. I never claimed to be an ethnic minority.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2024 14:13:25 GMT
But you haven't backed up your claim that "on whole" the MSM is pro immigration. I don't have to. - it's throw-away as a point. The msm is mostly pro immigration, but that isn't essential to my point. Your position relies on the MSM being near universally (or overwhelmingly) anti-immigration (which it clearly isn't) and mine doesn't rely on it being mostly pro. I'd qualify that as pro immigrants that are already here. I don't think I've ever heard the BBC comment on bringing more in.
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