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Post by piglet on Feb 29, 2024 0:58:29 GMT
This is a physical universe, if you punch me it hurts. How can physicality then produce consciosness? Physical reproduction or duplication can only then produce the same, summat physical.
Not consciousness. A reply by the Baron would be interesting as his understandiong of owt does not include stuff and nonsense beyond the physical. The Baron will try and explain consciousness as a physical manifestation, as might othors.
Thats going to be entertaining, remember, consciousness includes feelings. Try and get feelings into a computer.
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Post by Orac on Feb 29, 2024 8:37:08 GMT
Nobody knows. Nobody knows what consciousness is, despite it being the first primary fact for everyone alive.
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Post by piglet on Feb 29, 2024 10:27:07 GMT
There is a vast Universe to big to imagine, maybe life on this earth, primitive as it is, might be pioneers into exploring the vastness, even the parts where another star cannot be seen.
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Post by see2 on Mar 3, 2024 9:35:32 GMT
This is a physical universe, if you punch me it hurts. How can physicality then produce consciosness? Physical reproduction or duplication can only then produce the same, summat physical. Not consciousness. A reply by the Baron would be interesting as his understandiong of owt does not include stuff and nonsense beyond the physical. The Baron will try and explain consciousness as a physical manifestation, as might othors. Thats going to be entertaining, remember, consciousness includes feelings. Try and get feelings into a computer. Consciousness as with feelings is produced by a fact, which appears to be true of just about every other living creature, including, possibly to some extent plants and trees. It all starts with the one thing that keeps living things alive, and that is the fact that living things, certainly in the animal world, are hard wired to be wary. This largely unknown fact that humans are hard wired to be wary, is accompanied by the unconscious ability to learn, to remember and to react to actual and to perceived danger. The reactions from this unconscious area creates the feelings (hormonal changes) that are picked up by the logical non-feeling part of the brain, which in turn leads to consciousness. In short, being hard wired to be wary, is about survival which influences unconscious memory and this unconscious memory influences the thinking / problem solving in the logical brain. Which leads to consciousness. Just how the the system came about, is anyone's guess.
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Post by piglet on Mar 3, 2024 11:56:02 GMT
There is a theory that everything lives, to some extent. As with the example of a computer as above, if i call it a pile of junk, there may be a reaction, we dont have the instrument to measure a reaction. This makes sense, that something that isnt alive becomes alive is absurd.
There was a discussion on TRT this morning about perception, that our minds only allow us to see a limited version of everything, our mind is a headset, with a dashboard. The way we are is designed to give us the experience we need. Imagine the Universe with the goggles off, being able to see into a blackhole, or a remote moon one of many of a planet far far away.
Mountains, rivers, made of something exotic, to make contact with other life, that may be different but the same, from a universal source. How good would that be, i for one is bored with this life, its endless repition, the sameness, the grinding b ollocks.
For gods sake.
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Post by see2 on Mar 3, 2024 14:44:46 GMT
There is a theory that everything lives, to some extent. As with the example of a computer as above, if i call it a pile of junk, there may be a reaction, we dont have the instrument to measure a reaction. This makes sense, that something that isnt alive becomes alive is absurd. There was a discussion on TRT this morning about perception, that our minds only allow us to see a limited version of everything, our mind is a headset, with a dashboard. The way we are is designed to give us the experience we need. Imagine the Universe with the goggles off, being able to see into a blackhole, or a remote moon one of many of a planet far far away. Mountains, rivers, made of something exotic, to make contact with other life, that may be different but the same, from a universal source. How good would that be, i for one is bored with this life, its endless repition, the sameness, the grinding b ollocks. For gods sake. Feelings all come from the non-thinking sensory system. i.e. the unconscious system that learns remember and reacts but cannot apply logic and cannot rationalise. Our position on a feel-good scale is based upon the amount of fear that is unwittingly learnt and remembered by this unconscious system. Fear, most of which is learnt and catalogued in childhood is the decider. The higher the level of fear learnt the lower the individual will be on the feel-good scale. It really is as simple as that, because the presence or absence of fear determines the mixture of hormones in the body. The single most fear triggering problem is the ownership of the FEELINGS of rejection learnt during childhood, because the feelings of rejection is a serious threat to the sensory system of the child. Once learnt it is then held in the unconscious mind throughout life, unless addressed in Later life.
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Mar 3, 2024 17:47:13 GMT
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes
Download here: ia802907.us.archive.org/32/items/The_Origin_Of_Consciousness_In_The_Breakdown_Of_The_Bicameral_Mind_Julian_Jaynes_1976.pdf/The%20Origin%20of%20Consciousness%20in%20the%20Breakdown%20of%20the%20Bicameral%20Mind_%20Julian%20Jaynes_%201976.pdf"One of his core ideas is that the cornerstone of consciousness is metaphor. A mind boggling implication is that consciousness is, historically speaking, a very recent phenomenon (somewhere between two and three millennia old) — a cultural (rather than biological) development, a stage in the evolution of language". An example of the metaphorical use of language: Mark 1, 43 ... after healing the leper it says that Jesus ἐμβριμησάμενος αὐτῷ (having sternly warned him) sent him away ἐμβριμησάμενος actually means "snorting like a horse in anger". Prior to this the word σπλαγχνισθεὶς (having been moved with compassion) is used to describe Jesus' response to the leper's plea to be healed. This word actually means "To experience the suffering of another within one's bowels". The word used in verse 43 suggests me me that this is an interpolation into the text by someone who had a negative reaction to the description of Jesus' compassionate response to the leper. My studies show that the person who altered the text of Mark was prone to using metaphorical words that had "unpleasant imagery" whereas the original author avoided them.
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Post by piglet on Mar 4, 2024 9:48:35 GMT
Levels of consciousness is important, for instance, my jack russell wont grasp long division. Imagination is probably more important, that as mentioned in the bible if you can imagine it, it can be brought to fruition. I have experimented with that and it works, yes it does.
It takes some effort, concentration, the feeling, the thought, that whatever has already happened. For instance, if i imagine myself to be a millionairre, and invoke the process, the universe will deliver it, its not a case of maybe, or if, its nailed on guaranteed, it will happen. In the same way if you get cancer, your catastrophic thinking will enable it. You wont be thinking that its an annoyance and you will be cured.
The power imagination gives you is immense, there are no limits. Imagination seeps into your subconscious, as the above does, your subconscious is your interface with the universe, god, eternity, and beyond if there is one, beyond god? wow.
Consciousness just is, whatever flavour, size, cc, or colour.
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Post by see2 on Mar 4, 2024 13:31:16 GMT
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes
Download here: ia802907.us.archive.org/32/items/The_Origin_Of_Consciousness_In_The_Breakdown_Of_The_Bicameral_Mind_Julian_Jaynes_1976.pdf/The%20Origin%20of%20Consciousness%20in%20the%20Breakdown%20of%20the%20Bicameral%20Mind_%20Julian%20Jaynes_%201976.pdf"One of his core ideas is that the cornerstone of consciousness is metaphor. A mind boggling implication is that consciousness is, historically speaking, a very recent phenomenon (somewhere between two and three millennia old) — a cultural (rather than biological) development, a stage in the evolution of language". An example of the metaphorical use of language: Mark 1, 43 ... after healing the leper it says that Jesus ἐμβριμησάμενος αὐτῷ (having sternly warned him) sent him away ἐμβριμησάμενος actually means "snorting like a horse in anger". Prior to this the word σπλαγχνισθεὶς (having been moved with compassion) is used to describe Jesus' response to the leper's plea to be healed. This word actually means "To experience the suffering of another within one's bowels". The word used in verse 43 suggests me me that this is an interpolation into the text by someone who had a negative reaction to the description of Jesus' compassionate response to the leper. My studies show that the person who altered the text of Mark was prone to using metaphorical words that had "unpleasant imagery" whereas the original author avoided them. Comparing an idea of consciousness over thousands of years may well be impossible, but the sensory survival system inbuilt in the human mind has been a success, so there was no reason for the basics to change, the only changes that would have taken place would have been the sensory experiences that the ancients experienced compared to the sensory experiences that modern humans would experience. The unconscious system is basically about being aware of possible danger. Examples could be: feeling very hungry, feeling too cold, witnessing someone being killed i.e. hearing the screaming. These experiences would be remembered by the sensory system and would play a part in future thinking and future decisions, via the Unconscious mind. This same area will influence thoughts, actions and even control of individuals at times. Some might say, or who might be said of, being pricked by their conscious. Maybe thousands of years ago people might of thought that a god of some sort was behind their thoughts and actions. I doubt if any were aware of the actual workings of the mind.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2024 15:15:43 GMT
Feelings and emotions when you think about them are hard to define logically. We all know what it feels like to feel sad, to feel guilty, to feel angry, or happy, or amused, or anxious. If you were to tell me that you felt sad about something, I would know exactly what you meant by that due to my own past experiences of feeling sad. I know what feeling sad feels like. We all do. But to imagine having to define logically what sadness, or any other human emotion, is to a being that has never experienced it and you soon begin to see how difficult it is to define exactly what it is logically.
Programming such feelings into a computer using binary code is quite simply beyond us right now. We can program machines to potentially mimic an emotional response to certain stimuli. But we cannot program a machine to actually feel an emotional response itself.
As for the human consciousness, this is very complex clearly. Because part of our consciousness includes a huge subconscious where exists instinctive responses, deep and repressed feelings, suppressed memories or simply memories no longer consciously remembered, sometimes past traumas, and repressed and often primitive urges, and all of this affects how we consciously think and react to things. Our conscious selves are aware of ourselves and everything and everyone around us, and we are capable of thinking about these things using imagination in order to understand the world and universe we live in. And it is truly remarkable that through thought and experiment we have begun to uncover many of the rules which underpin the workings of creation itself. We have made the incredible discovery that the universe can be understood mathematically, that complex maths can be used to understand how things work, and the fact that our brains are capable of understanding and working with such complex maths to understand increasingly more about how the universe behaves as it does is a wondrous thing. We are beginning to understand the principles and rules according to which everything works, and it appears to be discernible via mathematics.
Surely this consciousness and subconsciousness in our heads is the seat of any immortal soul we might have? If there is a spiritual aspect to ourselves and everything around us, then the human brain is surely where matter and spirit are most strongly united for some long term purpose. Which of course only makes sense if the soul within us lives on somehow after the material death and decay of our bodies.
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Post by see2 on Mar 5, 2024 14:32:49 GMT
Feelings and emotions when you think about them are hard to define logically. We all know what it feels like to feel sad, to feel guilty, to feel angry, or happy, or amused, or anxious. If you were to tell me that you felt sad about something, I would know exactly what you meant by that due to my own past experiences of feeling sad. I know what feeling sad feels like. We all do. But to imagine having to define logically what sadness, or any other human emotion, is to a being that has never experienced it and you soon begin to see how difficult it is to define exactly what it is logically. Programming such feelings into a computer using binary code is quite simply beyond us right now. We can program machines to potentially mimic an emotional response to certain stimuli. But we cannot program a machine to actually feel an emotional response itself. As for the human consciousness, this is very complex clearly. Because part of our consciousness includes a huge subconscious where exists instinctive responses, deep and repressed feelings, suppressed memories or simply memories no longer consciously remembered, sometimes past traumas, and repressed and often primitive urges, and all of this affects how we consciously think and react to things. Our conscious selves are aware of ourselves and everything and everyone around us, and we are capable of thinking about these things using imagination in order to understand the world and universe we live in. And it is truly remarkable that through thought and experiment we have begun to uncover many of the rules which underpin the workings of creation itself. We have made the incredible discovery that the universe can be understood mathematically, that complex maths can be used to understand how things work, and the fact that our brains are capable of understanding and working with such complex maths to understand increasingly more about how the universe behaves as it does is a wondrous thing. We are beginning to understand the principles and rules according to which everything works, and it appears to be discernible via mathematics. Surely this consciousness and subconsciousness in our heads is the seat of any immortal soul we might have? If there is a spiritual aspect to ourselves and everything around us, then the human brain is surely where matter and spirit are most strongly united for some long term purpose. Which of course only makes sense if the soul within us lives on somehow after the material death and decay of our bodies. Your last paragraph is surely the thinking area where all religious beliefs come from. I think the fly in the ointment is that all feelings are created by hormonal changes taking place in the body. Changes triggered by learnt reactions in the sensory system. Nevertheless, that there is something positive waiting for us at the end of life is probably more important to many people, than what is otherwise probably seen as the cold reality of life, and death.
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