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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2024 16:01:07 GMT
One side issue to the dismal events this week was the Labour v SNP row over Gaza, Starmer may well have enraged Scots over his shafting the SNP Day Motion that many may no longer vote for him at the next election. Simon Heffer does (as ever) put it succinctly in the DT today. I just see Labour and the SNP as being in competition with each other. They're both lying anti-English parasites. You can see it on this forum with the snats running around begging people not to support Labour, whilst desperately trying to manipulate everyone to do what snats want. It may work on a few, but I see right through it. |
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 25, 2024 21:39:36 GMT
OK education isn't just based on higher Education but they made it easier for the working class by attaining higher exam results and their still a lot going to uni now despite them paying so it's not much of a obstacle. Where Scotland is you Have to be a resident in Scotland what is a obstacle to the majority of British people. And you being a Unionists I think you are should realise that What exactly are you gibbering about now? You talked about unemployment , and unemployed youth in the uk. John replied about new labour encouraging everyone going on to university , then applying tuition fees to marketise further education with the quip this was done in part to keep vast numbers of unemployed youth off labours unemployment figures. You then replied to that by waffling on about tuition fees . You do realise labour introduced tuition fees in scotland as well ?
The facts about the history of tuition fees in Scotland are stark and unarguable:
– in 1997 when Labour came to power, higher education was free.
– the Labour government then introduced fees of £1000 a year across the UK, which meant a four-year degree in Scotland suddenly cost £4000.
– in 2000, the Labour-led Scottish Executive replaced said fees with a “graduate endowment”, meaning that Scottish students paid £2000 retrospectively towards the cost of their education – half of what it had cost them under Labour’s fees system in 1999, but still £2000 more than the £0 they’d been paying in 1997.
In the space of three years, then, while claiming to have “abolished” tuition fees, Labour had in fact increased the cost of a degree in Scotland from zero to £2000. Those are the cold, hard, unyielding truths.I was replying to John that what I was waffling on about |
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 26, 2024 12:02:38 GMT
Well obviously Wilson didn't think the working class could obtain uni education Because unable to reach the Standards of education. But like I said payment is no obstacle Think now there more in uni now then there' ever was Has for the foundation of state institutions the NHS was set up for free access for all UK residents regardiles Of there immigration status or wealth. But them on the right Complain about immigrants using it. They now pay a fee on there visaà What planet are you on ? Not this one, clearly
My father could not get a university degree despite having matriculated from school with higher grades than i got because his parents could not afford to pay for him and his brother, so chose to spend money on tuition for his brother to get him up to a state where the air force would take him, and left dad to muddle on his own armed with nothing more than hs IQ of 152 in the Royal Signals and Radar Establishment, UK Atomic Energy Authority, Post Office and then finally International Business Machines in that order.
When I reached that stage in my own education, on the day the A Level results came out, I found myself short of a few grde points to automatically enter any of the choices I had selected, so I took my 13 GCE O Levels and A Level grade declarations, jumped on the bus and rode straight to the front door of University College Cardiff, where i was first in line behing the sign saying "Admissions Clearing" at the Dean's Admissions Office and said "OK What Now"
The answer I got was that my current grades were well above what was needed to enrol onto their "UCCA 3800 General Degree" which in reality every first year undergraduate was actually entered into, and that all i needed to do was fight my way onto any three of the numerous available first year courses that served as precursors to the degree I actually wanted to study, and "do well over the coming year" in order to be allowed to transfer onto the exact course i wanted at the end of that year's study.
In fact this advice was pretty much handed to every one of the clearing admissions applicants who actually turned up at the door (there were about thirty of us in all) apart from five whose results were such an embarrassment they were told their best course might be to try a resit, or apply to the university's "foundation year" intended for students with academic achievements outside the core needed for their study of choice.
I took the Course 3800 route, and at the end of my first year had a phone call inviting me to a chat with the professors of chemistry and biochemistry.
I rocked up scared shitless not knowing what this was about, but in fact what was going down was Professor Gillard, head of the Chemistry Faculty, and Professor Dodgson (no relation to a certain poet/author) head of the Life Sciences Faculty in the school of Medicine, were both keen to invite me to continue my studies in their departments, on the back of my 99% score in Organic and Physical Chemistry any 98% score in Biochemistry
My degree was obtained at absolutely zero cost to myself, with the sole disadvantage being my working class parents earned too much between them to allow me to get a grant, and i could not earn enough in university vacation time to sustain living away from home, hence my choice of the university where i lived, where my part time jobs funded my living expenses and beer money
It goes without saying that had Wilson's directives on higher education not been implemented, and had we then had the tuition fees we have today, the world would not have the benefit of my research and the exchequer would not have the benefit of about half a million fucking quid in income tax and NI
Oh yeah. One more thing. The entire group who stood outside that door in the August drizzle that damp morning met up almost by acident for lunch and we pretty much stuck together over the year, and EVERY ONE OF US was invited back to one of those conversations between two or more heads of department keen to have us on their faculty list for the degree course. Which in my view says rather a lot about the usefulness of the A level as a means of determining suitability as a candidate
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Post by Bentley on Feb 26, 2024 12:14:10 GMT
In the time of Wilson there was far more and better apprenticeships. There was city and guilds qualifications and ONC / HNC .
Am apprentice engineer did not have to put the cart before the horse .
The problem now is that there are shit apprenticeships or the get a shit degree as an entrance qualification.
One good thing for Blair and co is that young people in college are taken out of the unemployed figures .
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 26, 2024 12:21:29 GMT
Well obviously Wilson didn't think the working class could obtain uni education Because unable to reach the Standards of education. But like I said payment is no obstacle Think now there more in uni now then there' ever was Has for the foundation of state institutions the NHS was set up for free access for all UK residents regardiles Of there immigration status or wealth. But them on the right Complain about immigrants using it. They now pay a fee on there visaà What planet are you on ? Not this one, clearly
My father could not get a university degree despite having matriculated from school with higher grades than i got because his parents could not afford to pay for him and his brother, so chose to spend money on tuition for his brother to get him up to a state where the air force would take him, and left dad to muddle on his own armed with nothing more than hs IQ of 152 in the Royal Signals and Radar Establishment, UK Atomic Energy Authority, Post Office and then finally International Business Machines in that order.
When I reached that stage in my own education, on the day the A Level results came out, I found myself short of a few grde points to automatically enter any of the choices I had selected, so I took my 13 GCE O Levels and A Level grade declarations, jumped on the bus and rode straight to the front door of University College Cardiff, where i was first in line behing the sign saying "Admissions Clearing" at the Dean's Admissions Office and said "OK What Now"
The answer I got was that my current grades were well above what was needed to enrol onto their "UCCA 3800 General Degree" which in reality every first year undergraduate was actually entered into, and that all i needed to do was fight my way onto any three of the numerous available first year courses that served as precursors to the degree I actually wanted to study, and "do well over the coming year" in order to be allowed to transfer onto the exact course i wanted at the end of that year's study.
In fact this advice was pretty much handed to every one of the clearing admissions applicants who actually turned up at the door (there were about thirty of us in all) apart from five whose results were such an embarrassment they were told their best course might be to try a resit, or apply to the university's "foundation year" intended for students with academic achievements outside the core needed for their study of choice.
I took the Course 3800 route, and at the end of my first year had a phone call inviting me to a chat with the professors of chemistry and biochemistry.
I rocked up scared shitless not knowing what this was about, but in fact what was going down was Professor Gillard, head of the Chemistry Faculty, and Professor Dodgson (no relation to a certain poet/author) head of the Life Sciences Faculty in the school of Medicine, were both keen to invite me to continue my studies in their departments, on the back of my 99% score in Organic and Physical Chemistry any 98% score in Biochemistry
My degree was obtained at absolutely zero cost to myself, with the sole disadvantage being my working class parents earned too much between them to allow me to get a grant, and i could not earn enough in university vacation time to sustain living away from home, hence my choice of the university where i lived, where my part time jobs funded my living expenses and beer money
It goes without saying that had Wilson's directives on higher education not been implemented, and had we then had the tuition fees we have today, the world would not have the benefit of my research and the exchequer would not have the benefit of about half a million fucking quid in income tax and NI
Oh yeah. One more thing. The entire group who stood outside that door in the August drizzle that damp morning met up almost by acident for lunch and we pretty much stuck together over the year, and EVERY ONE OF US was invited back to one of those conversations between two or more heads of department keen to have us on their faculty list for the degree course. Which in my view says rather a lot about the usefulness of the A level as a means of determining suitability as a candidate
Are you saying that fees are a block to them going uni because they Cant afford it ? Are you sure you know what your talking about? |
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 26, 2024 12:34:17 GMT
What planet are you on ? Not this one, clearly
My father could not get a university degree despite having matriculated from school with higher grades than i got because his parents could not afford to pay for him and his brother, so chose to spend money on tuition for his brother to get him up to a state where the air force would take him, and left dad to muddle on his own armed with nothing more than hs IQ of 152 in the Royal Signals and Radar Establishment, UK Atomic Energy Authority, Post Office and then finally International Business Machines in that order.
When I reached that stage in my own education, on the day the A Level results came out, I found myself short of a few grde points to automatically enter any of the choices I had selected, so I took my 13 GCE O Levels and A Level grade declarations, jumped on the bus and rode straight to the front door of University College Cardiff, where i was first in line behing the sign saying "Admissions Clearing" at the Dean's Admissions Office and said "OK What Now"
The answer I got was that my current grades were well above what was needed to enrol onto their "UCCA 3800 General Degree" which in reality every first year undergraduate was actually entered into, and that all i needed to do was fight my way onto any three of the numerous available first year courses that served as precursors to the degree I actually wanted to study, and "do well over the coming year" in order to be allowed to transfer onto the exact course i wanted at the end of that year's study.
In fact this advice was pretty much handed to every one of the clearing admissions applicants who actually turned up at the door (there were about thirty of us in all) apart from five whose results were such an embarrassment they were told their best course might be to try a resit, or apply to the university's "foundation year" intended for students with academic achievements outside the core needed for their study of choice.
I took the Course 3800 route, and at the end of my first year had a phone call inviting me to a chat with the professors of chemistry and biochemistry.
I rocked up scared shitless not knowing what this was about, but in fact what was going down was Professor Gillard, head of the Chemistry Faculty, and Professor Dodgson (no relation to a certain poet/author) head of the Life Sciences Faculty in the school of Medicine, were both keen to invite me to continue my studies in their departments, on the back of my 99% score in Organic and Physical Chemistry any 98% score in Biochemistry
My degree was obtained at absolutely zero cost to myself, with the sole disadvantage being my working class parents earned too much between them to allow me to get a grant, and i could not earn enough in university vacation time to sustain living away from home, hence my choice of the university where i lived, where my part time jobs funded my living expenses and beer money
It goes without saying that had Wilson's directives on higher education not been implemented, and had we then had the tuition fees we have today, the world would not have the benefit of my research and the exchequer would not have the benefit of about half a million fucking quid in income tax and NI
Oh yeah. One more thing. The entire group who stood outside that door in the August drizzle that damp morning met up almost by acident for lunch and we pretty much stuck together over the year, and EVERY ONE OF US was invited back to one of those conversations between two or more heads of department keen to have us on their faculty list for the degree course. Which in my view says rather a lot about the usefulness of the A level as a means of determining suitability as a candidate
Are you saying that fees are a block to them going uni because they Cant afford it ? Are you sure you know what your talking about? Today ? You tell me. Woud you willingly stick yourself £30,000 in debt, minimum, fucking your credit score and your mortgage eligibility over, for a dodgy degree with no hope of a job with a significant salary differential from a non graduate ? In my case, as with almost all of the undergraduate students across all faculties, the degrees we were choosing to study were essential to the career we intended to pursue, and that was the case for hard science, not so hard science, and arts across the board. But then in those days there was more vocational training outside of university / academia, and more employment opportunities overall.
I know where you are going. You are going to point me at shit like this commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7857/when you should be looking here commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01079/Whch shows that nearly thre quarters of the undergraduates taking out a student loan until THIS year when the repayment system changed will NEVER pay off the loan and will spend their larger part of their working lives blighted by the damage their tuition fee debt will do to their credit score. A debt the government have deliberately decared in law wil NOT be expunged even by the destitution of bankruptcy. And before you try pinning that on the tories, it was GORDON BROWN who engineered that. |
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 26, 2024 13:02:20 GMT
Are you saying that fees are a block to them going uni because they Cant afford it ? Are you sure you know what your talking about? Today ? You tell me. Woud you willingly stick yourself £30,000 in debt, minimum, fucking your credit score and your mortgage eligibility over, for a dodgy degree with no hope of a job with a significant salary differential from a non graduate ? In my case, as with almost all of the undergraduate students across all faculties, the degrees we were choosing to study were essential to the career we intended to pursue, and that was the case for hard science, not so hard science, and arts across the board. But then in those days there was more vocational training outside of university / academia, and more employment opportunities overall.
I know where you are going. You are going to point me at shit like this commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7857/when you should be looking here commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01079/Whch shows that nearly thre quarters of the undergraduates taking out a student loan until THIS year when the repayment system changed will NEVER pay off the loan and will spend their larger part of their working lives blighted by the damage their tuition fee debt will do to their credit score. A debt the government have deliberately decared in law wil NOT be expunged even by the destitution of bankruptcy. And before you try pinning that on the tories, it was GORDON BROWN who engineered that. If some dosent pay of a debt Mean they can't afford it .I'm sure you know that So let's see if the fees are a block to Them who can't afford it were talking about uni education roughly say that 18 year olds living in the least advantaged areas in England are about twice as likely to go to university as 18 year olds in the least advantaged areas in Scotland, based on UCAS figures. |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 26, 2024 14:34:49 GMT
You are not considering those who go to University and do not get a qualification, because they fail.
You are not considering those who go to University and get a useless qualification that does not result in work, because they were encouraged to get a degree of any kind.
You are not considering that Labour used University as a way of massaging unemployment figures.
We do not need fifty percent of school leavers to have a degree.
We require STEM students.
And for those subjects tuition should be means tested and provided free to the poorest.
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 26, 2024 20:23:04 GMT
You are not considering those who go to University and do not get a qualification, because they fail. You are not considering those who go to University and get a useless qualification that does not result in work, because they were encouraged to get a degree of any kind. You are not considering that Labour used University as a way of massaging unemployment figures. We do not need fifty percent of school leavers to have a degree. We require STEM students. And for those subjects tuition should be means tested and provided free to the poorest. Something else that tuition fees have done, across the board When i went to university the course structure was such that it was physically impossible for a student starting a second year of a three (or four year sandwich) course outside oxbridge to fail it. This was because the pass mark at year one was do high there was an almost 35% washout rate. If you passed the first year, you could sit in the bar for the remaining two, do sod all work, turn up for your final exam m, write your name on the paper and leave without writing another word, and you would STILL get a third class pass without honours. Three in my year of over 1000 finishers did exactly that, one political science and one sociology student, both of whom became student union officials, and one ass hole whose father wanted him to be an accountant, who started studying chemistry against his father’s wishes but jacked it in, came back for his 3rd ckass degrre and used it to enrol at Manchester to study accounting, with his father paying his living costs. The other 500 who did not make the grade were chucked out before they wasted any more money. I think they were actually given a chance to resit at least one subject if their fail was borderline The point was, there was no point funding tuition for no hopers and after a year in uni any glitch at A level - like mine - should have been firmly nailed. As mine was. By the time tuition fees and student loans had come about, all that changed. Less than one percent were chucked out with only ten grand of debt, they were all encouraged to get two more years of debt round their necks before being chucked iut with a useless grade or no degree at all …. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 26, 2024 20:31:26 GMT
We require STEM students. I’ll make this point separately Fuck YES don’t we just But we also need artists, sculptors, historians, actors, writers and musicians. I have over the years, not being a tobacco addict, thrown almost as much of the hard earned fruits of my labour as a scientist and engineer at thespians and musicians as i have at microbiologists, or at least at purveyors of the product of the microbiologist's and distillers art Maybe we do nit need such people in the same numbers asxwe need scientists, engineers etc…. But the world would be an infinitely more miserable place without them, and i tithe my earnings for their training a whole fucking lot more willingly than the whack stolen from me to support lying bastard politicians and illegal immigrant freeloaders. |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 26, 2024 20:36:48 GMT
What university did Vincent Van Gogh go to? The thing about art, anyone can become an artist at any time.
Hell yes we need artists but do they all need degrees in order to sell their art?
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 27, 2024 2:29:30 GMT
You are not considering those who go to University and do not get a qualification, because they fail. You are not considering those who go to University and get a useless qualification that does not result in work, because they were encouraged to get a degree of any kind. You are not considering that Labour used University as a way of massaging unemployment figures. We do not need fifty percent of school leavers to have a degree. We require STEM students. And for those subjects tuition should be means tested and provided free to the poorest. Is that reply to me vinny |
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 27, 2024 2:33:56 GMT
What university did Vincent Van Gogh go to? The thing about art, anyone can become an artist at any time. Hell yes we need artists but do they all need degrees in order to sell their art? What' about Banksy dose he have a degree And his Street art sells for Millions |
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Post by morayloon on Mar 2, 2024 1:57:13 GMT
One side issue to the dismal events this week was the Labour v SNP row over Gaza, Starmer may well have enraged Scots over his shafting the SNP Day Motion that many may no longer vote for him at the next election. Simon Heffer does (as ever) put it succinctly in the DT today. I just see Labour and the SNP as being in competition with each other. They're both lying anti-English parasites. You can see it on this forum with the snats running around begging people not to support Labour, whilst desperately trying to manipulate everyone to do what snats want. It may work on a few, but I see right through it. More bullshit!!! When are you going to provide evidence to support your bigoted hatred!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2024 6:37:23 GMT
I just see Labour and the SNP as being in competition with each other. They're both lying anti-English parasites. You can see it on this forum with the snats running around begging people not to support Labour, whilst desperately trying to manipulate everyone to do what snats want. It may work on a few, but I see right through it. More bullshit!!! When are you going to provide evidence to support your bigoted hatred!!! Buy an English Dictionary. |
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