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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 14, 2022 5:53:09 GMT
Something I just heard on the radio, the question asked was: should a foreign language be compulsory in UK schools?
My take is, no. Of course not. I remember I was forced to take French at school, I didn't want to I could see no purpose in it but it didn't matter. For two years (Cant remember how many lessons a week) I sat in what was called a language lab that was very high tech for the day, this would be 1973/4, while someone tried to teach me French. It was a complete waste of two years.
English is an international language, it is not only the language of Chaucer, Shakespeare and Dickens, but it's the language of international business, commerce, science, medicine, and many other key areas, including diplomacy. English is dominant in most regions of the world. Even pilots must speak English.
At this point I expect some outraged commie will gleefully point out that Chinese Mandarin is the most spoken language in the world. Yes indeed it is. But it is not an internationally recognised language spoken around the world. I understand why people who don't speak English would want to learn English, but why on earth should an English kid be forced to learn a foreign language.
Btw, at the tender age of 19 I discovered it was easy to learn a foreign language. Within 6 months I could speak passable German, OK it may not have been grammatically correct but young fraulines weren't bothered about dotting the i's and crossing the t's. But they did seem very keen on showing me what the big wide world was all about, I was a lamb to the slaughter. Happy days.
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Post by buccaneer on Nov 14, 2022 6:15:30 GMT
Yes. It does not matter that English is lingua franca. However being such a commonly used language it goes to show how much effort non-English speaking people put in to speak English. English as a first language speaking pupils
should learn a foreign language; whether it be Spanish, French, German or Mandarin. The amount of times I've gone abroad to witness lazy Brits expecting foreigners in their own country to speak English because the Benidorm mob
ask directions for a British themed pub with British grub is quite embarrassing. They take-for-granted that everyone should speak English because they can't speak the language of those in their chosen holiday destination.
Granted, you can't expect Brits to speak a wide array of languages, but still a learnt foreign language is no bad thing. It's almost like saying, should the study of music and reading music be compulsory at school? While not
every student will get to grips with learning another language (I personally found it difficult), there is research to suggest that the brain in the formative years is much more malleable and therefore receptive to acquiring
new languages.
I didn't start studying it until secondary school and then started to question the rules-based system of French as it didn't make sense which hindered my desire to learn a new language.
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 14, 2022 6:45:13 GMT
Yes. It does not matter that English is lingua franca. However being such a commonly used language it goes to show how much effort non-English speaking people put in to speak English. English as a first language speaking pupils should learn a foreign language; whether it be Spanish, French, German or Mandarin. The amount of times I've gone abroad to witness lazy Brits expecting foreigners in their own country to speak English because the Benidorm mob ask directions for a British themed pub with British grub is quite embarrassing. They take-for-granted that everyone should speak English because they can't speak the language of those in their chosen holiday destination. Granted, you can't expect Brits to speak a wide array of languages, but still a learnt foreign language is no bad thing. It's almost like saying, should the study of music and reading music be compulsory at school? While not every student will get to grips with learning another language (I personally found it difficult), there is research to suggest that the brain in the formative years is much more malleable and therefore receptive to acquiring new languages. I didn't studying it until secondary school and then started to question the rules-based system of French as it didn't make sense which hindered my desire to learn a new language. You may find that the only reason 'lazy' Brits expect bar keeps on the Costas to speak English is because those bar keeps want Brit cash. It's called appealing to your audience and as far as young Brits are concerned, no one does it better than the Spanish. Hey, it's a market. I suppose if at the age of 12 you have plotted your life out and international journalism is your destiny, then choosing a foreign language may be a good idea. Actually, here's a thought. My son could speak fluent, and I do mean fluent French within 12 months of meeting the French girl he married. If you heard him you wouldn't know he was English, and he never did French at school. There's a moral there somewhere, probably. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 14, 2022 9:47:05 GMT
Yes. It does not matter that English is lingua franca. However being such a commonly used language it goes to show how much effort non-English speaking people put in to speak English. English as a first language speaking pupils should learn a foreign language; whether it be Spanish, French, German or Mandarin. The amount of times I've gone abroad to witness lazy Brits expecting foreigners in their own country to speak English because the Benidorm mob ask directions for a British themed pub with British grub is quite embarrassing. They take-for-granted that everyone should speak English because they can't speak the language of those in their chosen holiday destination. Granted, you can't expect Brits to speak a wide array of languages, but still a learnt foreign language is no bad thing. It's almost like saying, should the study of music and reading music be compulsory at school? While not every student will get to grips with learning another language (I personally found it difficult), there is research to suggest that the brain in the formative years is much more malleable and therefore receptive to acquiring new languages. I didn't start studying it until secondary school and then started to question the rules-based system of French as it didn't make sense which hindered my desire to learn a new language. If I am on holiday anywhere I would not expect those in a country to have anything other than patience with my attempts to make myself understood, likewise I would have infinite patience with those on holiday in my country trying to make themselves understood. What I would not expect was that if I lived in France or Germany or Timbuctoo that I would expect to get by without making serious attempts to learn the language and likewise for those living and working here. If I could not learn the language then I would expect to meet the costs of that inability by paying for the translation services myself and likewise that is what I would expect here. |
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Post by Paulus de B on Nov 14, 2022 15:49:06 GMT
Yes. It does not matter that English is lingua franca. However being such a commonly used language it goes to show how much effort non-English speaking people put in to speak English. English as a first language speaking pupils should learn a foreign language; whether it be Spanish, French, German or Mandarin. The amount of times I've gone abroad to witness lazy Brits expecting foreigners in their own country to speak English because the Benidorm mob ask directions for a British themed pub with British grub is quite embarrassing. They take-for-granted that everyone should speak English because they can't speak the language of those in their chosen holiday destination. Granted, you can't expect Brits to speak a wide array of languages, but still a learnt foreign language is no bad thing. It's almost like saying, should the study of music and reading music be compulsory at school? While not every student will get to grips with learning another language (I personally found it difficult), there is research to suggest that the brain in the formative years is much more malleable and therefore receptive to acquiring new languages. I didn't start studying it until secondary school and then started to question the rules-based system of French as it didn't make sense which hindered my desire to learn a new language. The lager louts in Benidorm are objectionable specifically becase they're loutish. I can't see any problem with politely asking a native whether s/he can speak English and then asking for directions. Re learning languages in school: largely pointless. The two things that make language-learning work are exposure and need, neither of which are features of a few periods in the school timetable. |
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Post by buccaneer on Nov 14, 2022 20:34:47 GMT
Yes. It does not matter that English is lingua franca. However being such a commonly used language it goes to show how much effort non-English speaking people put in to speak English. English as a first language speaking pupils should learn a foreign language; whether it be Spanish, French, German or Mandarin. The amount of times I've gone abroad to witness lazy Brits expecting foreigners in their own country to speak English because the Benidorm mob ask directions for a British themed pub with British grub is quite embarrassing. They take-for-granted that everyone should speak English because they can't speak the language of those in their chosen holiday destination. Granted, you can't expect Brits to speak a wide array of languages, but still a learnt foreign language is no bad thing. It's almost like saying, should the study of music and reading music be compulsory at school? While not every student will get to grips with learning another language (I personally found it difficult), there is research to suggest that the brain in the formative years is much more malleable and therefore receptive to acquiring new languages. I didn't start studying it until secondary school and then started to question the rules-based system of French as it didn't make sense which hindered my desire to learn a new language. The lager louts in Benidorm are objectionable specifically becase they're loutish. I can't see any problem with politely asking a native whether s/he can speak English and then asking for directions. Re learning languages in school: largely pointless. The two things that make language-learning work are exposure and need, neither of which are features of a few periods in the school timetable. I disagree on your second point. Many children won't have exposure to a foreign language unless they are taught it at school. The problem with this is, exposure generally comes too late developmentally for children. Language should be taught in the formative years. And learning language is no less "largely pointless" than learning music at school. |
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Post by Steve on Nov 14, 2022 20:51:48 GMT
Should learning a foreign language be compulsory at school. Much as I think it's wise to learn at least the rudiments of at least one other language my answer is 'no' because for so many it is more important to learn other things. I might even argue that the most important non English language to learn is C++ or Java but again not compulsory. |
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Post by borchester on Nov 14, 2022 21:25:25 GMT
Something I just heard on the radio, the question asked was: should a foreign language be compulsory in UK schools? My take is, no. Of course not. I remember I was forced to take French at school, I didn't want to I could see no purpose in it but it didn't matter. For two years (Cant remember how many lessons a week) I sat in what was called a language lab that was very high tech for the day, this would be 1973/4, while someone tried to teach me French. It was a complete waste of two years. English is an international language, it is not only the language of Chaucer, Shakespeare and Dickens, but it's the language of international business, commerce, science, medicine, and many other key areas, including diplomacy. English is dominant in most regions of the world. Even pilots must speak English. At this point I expect some outraged commie will gleefully point out that Chinese Mandarin is the most spoken language in the world. Yes indeed it is. But it is not an internationally recognised language spoken around the world. I understand why people who don't speak English would want to learn English, but why on earth should an English kid be forced to learn a foreign language. Btw, at the tender age of 19 I discovered it was easy to learn a foreign language. Within 6 months I could speak passable German, OK it may not have been grammatically correct but young fraulines weren't bothered about dotting the i's and crossing the t's. But they did seem very keen on showing me what the big wide world was all about, I was a lamb to the slaughter. Happy days. I have to say that I am inclined to agree with Red.
French was compulsory at my school, but after five years I still could not order a cup of coffee in Calais. Then I went fruit picking in the Languedoc and really started to learn the language. Unfortunately it was Australian because most of the other pickers were Strines. Still, it was fun  |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 15, 2022 10:22:04 GMT
The lager louts in Benidorm are objectionable specifically becase they're loutish. I can't see any problem with politely asking a native whether s/he can speak English and then asking for directions. Re learning languages in school: largely pointless. The two things that make language-learning work are exposure and need, neither of which are features of a few periods in the school timetable. I disagree on your second point. Many children won't have exposure to a foreign language unless they are taught it at school. The problem with this is, exposure generally comes too late developmentally for children. Language should be taught in the formative years. And learning language is no less "largely pointless" than learning music at school. Agree Learning a foreign language (including associated grammar) is an important life skill imo |
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Post by Einhorn on Nov 15, 2022 10:29:58 GMT
The citizens of Global Britain should not only learn every world language but every dialect. Let's do this properly.
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Post by Vinny on Nov 15, 2022 10:39:09 GMT
Learning foreign languages should be taught from a very young age, I was taught French at high school, and Russian too, I think I learned them too late.
I'm not fluent.
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Post by om15 on Nov 15, 2022 12:17:12 GMT
I was taught Latin and French at my grammar school.
In my working life I have spent considerable time living and working abroad, throughout Europe and in non English speaking countries such as Kazakhstan for example.
I only speak English except in France when I might mutter the odd remembered phrase or two.
I think languages should be taught at school and feel ashamed when Dutch, German, Norwegian, Greek and Egyption people have spoken to me in flawless English. I spent a couple of years in Saudi and picked up enough Arabic to be able to swear at them and insult them, learning any more would have been a waste of time.
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Post by bancroft on Nov 15, 2022 12:33:43 GMT
I think every child should be offered languages yet not made mandatory.
I did French and later Spanish.
Continued a decade later with Spanish at night school and learnt enough to get around Spain.
Funnily I recall later wishing i had done Italian as the language was so expressive.
What I found studying foreign languages was terms about structure i didn't even realise we used in English as we had not been taught sufficiently about English language. I found that more than a little strange.............
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Post by Steve on Nov 15, 2022 17:46:21 GMT
I think every child should be offered languages yet not made mandatory. I did French and later Spanish. Continued a decade later with Spanish at night school and learnt enough to get around Spain. Funnily I recall later wishing i had done Italian as the language was so expressive. What I found studying foreign languages was terms about structure i didn't even realise we used in English as we had not been taught sufficiently about English language. I found that more than a little strange.............  that offered but not compulsory line I did French (barely passed O Level), German (failed) and Latin (gave up after a year) but have all done me well especially when decades later we did French at evening classes and I've never struggled in France since. |
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Post by bancroft on Nov 15, 2022 18:21:02 GMT
I think every child should be offered languages yet not made mandatory. I did French and later Spanish. Continued a decade later with Spanish at night school and learnt enough to get around Spain. Funnily I recall later wishing i had done Italian as the language was so expressive. What I found studying foreign languages was terms about structure i didn't even realise we used in English as we had not been taught sufficiently about English language. I found that more than a little strange............. that offered but not compulsory line I did French (barely passed O Level), German (failed) and Latin (gave up after a year) but have all done me well especially when decades later we did French at evening classes and I've never struggled in France since. Yes I got French O level grade c and failed Spanish O yet got CSE grade 1. With the Spanish I had one years less classes as we started French a year earlier. I found Spanish much easier to learn and speak than French. |
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