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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 15:47:16 GMT
My uncle & aunt bought a dairy farm in wales, they lived in Shropshire but for reasons I'm not aware of decided to move to SW Wales, this was in 1960. When they retired in the late 1990's both in their 70's by now, they decided to sell the farm and move away. They weren't 'gentleman' farmers, they were hard working farmers who were used to a seven day week. When they retired they still lived on the farm and were reluctant to sell because it was their home, however they got some advice and decided to sell. They couldn't belive how much they sold the farm for, they had no idea it was worth that much. I'm pleased to say their final years were very comfortable. They deserved it. The reason for this ramble is because the reason they decided to sell, and it was a tough decision, is because even though they had lived there since 1960, nearly 40 years later they were still regarded as outsiders. If Aunty Jan went to the local shop, they would start talking in Welsh, if Uncle Pete went to the pub, which he rarely did because it was a mile away, he got the same reception. My brother and I visited that pub... I wont go into that. The point being, that area of Wales, south Ceredigion, is not a nice place, they're like inbred cave dwellers who regard outsiders with hostile suspicion. They lived in Wales and didn't manage to acquire the language in 40 years? how dare the welsh talk in welsh in Wales. ? I can't believe the cheek of it! |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 20, 2024 16:02:28 GMT
They lived in Wales and didn't manage to acquire the language in 40 years? how dare the welsh talk in welsh in Wales. ? I can't believe the cheek of it! Acquiring the local language would have greatly facilitated social integration. Language is currency. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 16:06:34 GMT
how dare the welsh talk in welsh in Wales. ? I can't believe the cheek of it! Acquiring the local language would have greatly facilitated social integration. Language is currency. seriously though the arrogance ? You wonder why the English get a bad name in France (dordogne) south of Spain and elsewhere. I know I shouldn't generalise ,because many English people do take care to integrate and learn foreign languages wherever they go , and in Scotland , the great Englishman Edward dwellys name is revered for his work on our gaidhlig language , but the lack of awareness and arrogance when posting about them bloody foreigners not speaking English is fucking laughable. I wonder if you get them moving over to America telling the yanks how to spell properly? |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 16:19:59 GMT
how dare the welsh talk in welsh in Wales. ? I can't believe the cheek of it! Acquiring the local language would have greatly facilitated social integration. Language is currency. unionists , and British nationalist in general have great difficulty with the Celtic languages as they rip a large hole in the fantasy of the English speaking homogenous Briton. That book I spoke about on the Scottish threads about the Gaelic placenames in Glasgow was written by a Gaelic speaking guy from the western isles , who was tired listening to the puerile debate by unionists on silly things like Gaelic road signs in Glasgow , and stupid comments about Gaelic never being spoken in Glasgow. see the same thing with the unionist community in northern ireland , in even greater degree , where unionists with Gaelic family names mock Irish Gaelic and go berserk when locals speak in their own language. These are people who don't even understand their own British English is a language Made up of 45% French , 15% danish , and was originally the same language that was being spoken in western and northern Germany. bloody foreigners coming over here not speaking our language. |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 20, 2024 16:53:22 GMT
Acquiring the local language would have greatly facilitated social integration. Language is currency. seriously though the arrogance ? You wonder why the English get a bad name in France (dordogne) south of Spain and elsewhere. I know I shouldn't generalise ,because many English people do take care to integrate and learn foreign languages wherever they go , and in Scotland , the great Englishman Edward dwellys name is revered for his work on our gaidhlig language , but the lack of awareness and arrogance when posting about them bloody foreigners not speaking English is fucking laughable. I wonder if you get them moving over to America telling the yanks how to spell properly? I agree with you 100%. Expecting others to speak your language when you're in their country is a terrible arrogance. It's a pet peeve of mine that French is scarce in the Dordogne at certain times of the year. Even the French shopkeepers are speaking English there now. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 17:04:52 GMT
seriously though the arrogance ? You wonder why the English get a bad name in France (dordogne) south of Spain and elsewhere. I know I shouldn't generalise ,because many English people do take care to integrate and learn foreign languages wherever they go , and in Scotland , the great Englishman Edward dwellys name is revered for his work on our gaidhlig language , but the lack of awareness and arrogance when posting about them bloody foreigners not speaking English is fucking laughable. I wonder if you get them moving over to America telling the yanks how to spell properly? I agree with you 100%. Expecting others to speak your language when you're in their country is a terrible arrogance. It's a pet peeve of mine that French is scarce in the Dordogne at certain times of the year. Even the French shopkeepers are speaking English there now. red wasn't even aware of what he was saying in his post. That's what shocks me to the core. My daughter is a linguist who speaks various languages , including fluent German . I love going to France , and have family living there . Im not a French speaker , well outside of schoolboy stuff, and ive been in the funny situation of sitting half pissed trying to have a conversation with monoglot French using google translate on the I phone. in our old forum once upon a time , they started a thread called americanisms , because a few of the brits were outraged at americanisms creeping into the English language and demeaning it lmfao. The English have come a long way historically with their language , and its probably an extreme historical bad joke that an English language rights movement was started at Oxford university in the fourteenth century by a Celtic speaking cleric , when the English were in danger of disappearing and becoming French speaking snail eaters. John trevisa , of st mellion Cornwall must be turning in his grave. |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 20, 2024 17:24:22 GMT
I agree with you 100%. Expecting others to speak your language when you're in their country is a terrible arrogance. It's a pet peeve of mine that French is scarce in the Dordogne at certain times of the year. Even the French shopkeepers are speaking English there now. red wasn't even aware of what he was saying in his post. That's what shocks me to the core. My daughter is a linguist who speaks various languages , including fluent German . I love going to France , and have family living there . Im not a French speaker , well outside of schoolboy stuff, and ive been in the funny situation of sitting half pissed trying to have a conversation with monoglot French using google translate on the I phone. in our old forum once upon a time , they started a thread called americanisms , because a few of the brits were outraged at americanisms creeping into the English language and demeaning it lmfao. The English have come a long way historically with their language , and its probably an extreme historical bad joke that an English language rights movement was started at Oxford university in the fourteenth century by a Celtic speaking cleric , when the English were in danger of disappearing and becoming French speaking snail eaters. John trevisa , of st mellion Cornwall must be turning in his grave. I'm not a linguist but I am a polyglot, and I'm fairly fluent in French. However, you don't even need to speak fluently to get by in France, as you know. The simple act of trying - making an effort - to meet people in their own language is all the ice-breaker you need. You must know the story of Sir James Murray, the Scottish lexicographer who undertook the years long magnum opus of compiling the first edition of the Oxford English dictionary? He was a largely self-educated philologist with a grasp of many languages. In spite of what he did for Oxford and the English language, he was never accepted into Oxford society and only awarded an honorary degree a year before his death. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 17:31:17 GMT
red wasn't even aware of what he was saying in his post. That's what shocks me to the core. My daughter is a linguist who speaks various languages , including fluent German . I love going to France , and have family living there . Im not a French speaker , well outside of schoolboy stuff, and ive been in the funny situation of sitting half pissed trying to have a conversation with monoglot French using google translate on the I phone. in our old forum once upon a time , they started a thread called americanisms , because a few of the brits were outraged at americanisms creeping into the English language and demeaning it lmfao. The English have come a long way historically with their language , and its probably an extreme historical bad joke that an English language rights movement was started at Oxford university in the fourteenth century by a Celtic speaking cleric , when the English were in danger of disappearing and becoming French speaking snail eaters. John trevisa , of st mellion Cornwall must be turning in his grave. I'm not a linguist but I am a polyglot, and I'm fairly fluent in French. However, you don't even need to speak fluently to get by in France, as you know. The simple act of trying - making an effort - to meet people in their own language is all the ice-breaker you need. You must know the story of Sir James Murray, the Scottish lexicographer who undertook the years long magnum opus of compiling the first edition of the Oxford English dictionary? He was a largely self-educated philologist with a grasp of many languages. In spite of what he did for Oxford and the English language, he was never accepted into Oxford society and only awarded an honorary degree a year before his death. the younger French are all mainly pretty fluent in English , and listen to American music and watch American films , the older French less so. English is a borrowing language , made up of many languages and many different non English people have contributed to it over the years. fully agree with you , making a small effort to say bore da might have made all the difference in Wales , or saying some schoolboy French in the dordogne. The arrogance of some folk precludes this simple truism . god help the English if the yanks ever become Spanish speaking. if English ceases to be the economic language of the world , it will degenerate from a top world language to a local regional language in pretty short time , and that will take the wind out of certain folks sails. |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 20, 2024 18:02:55 GMT
I'm not a linguist but I am a polyglot, and I'm fairly fluent in French. However, you don't even need to speak fluently to get by in France, as you know. The simple act of trying - making an effort - to meet people in their own language is all the ice-breaker you need. You must know the story of Sir James Murray, the Scottish lexicographer who undertook the years long magnum opus of compiling the first edition of the Oxford English dictionary? He was a largely self-educated philologist with a grasp of many languages. In spite of what he did for Oxford and the English language, he was never accepted into Oxford society and only awarded an honorary degree a year before his death. the younger French are all mainly pretty fluent in English , and listen to American music and watch American films , the older French less so. English is a borrowing language , made up of many languages and many different non English people have contributed to it over the years. fully agree with you , making a small effort to say bore da might have made all the difference in Wales , or saying some schoolboy French in the dordogne. The arrogance of some folk precludes this simple truism . god help the English if the yanks ever become Spanish speaking. if English ceases to be the economic language of the world , it will degenerate from a top world language to a local regional language in pretty short time , and that will take the wind out of certain folks sails. Don't get me wrong, Thomas. I am very grateful to be a native English speaker. As languages go, it's incredibly successful compared to some other languages, mainly because it borrowed from many other languages. By comparison, look what has become of the French lexicon as a result of the protectionism of the Académie Française, for instance. Compared to the vast lexicon of English, French has a relatively small vocabulary, and this surely affects how people can express themselves. There have been many lingua francas since antiquity. (Spanish had its time.) I don't think that English will lose its lingua franca status in my lifetime, but it will eventually. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 18:55:50 GMT
the younger French are all mainly pretty fluent in English , and listen to American music and watch American films , the older French less so. English is a borrowing language , made up of many languages and many different non English people have contributed to it over the years. fully agree with you , making a small effort to say bore da might have made all the difference in Wales , or saying some schoolboy French in the dordogne. The arrogance of some folk precludes this simple truism . god help the English if the yanks ever become Spanish speaking. if English ceases to be the economic language of the world , it will degenerate from a top world language to a local regional language in pretty short time , and that will take the wind out of certain folks sails. Don't get me wrong, Thomas. I am very grateful to be a native English speaker. As languages go, it's incredibly successful compared to some other languages, mainly because it borrowed from many other languages. By comparison, look what has become of the French lexicon as a result of the protectionism of the Académie Française, for instance. Compared to the vast lexicon of English, French has a relatively small vocabulary, and this surely affects how people can express themselves. There have been many lingua francas since antiquity. (Spanish had its time.) I don't think that English will lose its lingua franca status in my lifetime, but it will eventually. I fully agree. im obviously a massive supporter of Scottish Gaelic , and im amazed the language actually survives today despite centuries of oppression and neglect. English's was spread by empire , but its kept at the top of the tree today because of the United States. American English is whats being learned and spoken across the globe , and British English retreating . There is a big movement in Scotland to push the Scottish dialect of Middle English , and English , despite the misnomer , which is only called English because of a fifteenth century pr stunt , is today no longer the sole preserve of the Englishman . |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 20, 2024 19:07:46 GMT
Don't get me wrong, Thomas. I am very grateful to be a native English speaker. As languages go, it's incredibly successful compared to some other languages, mainly because it borrowed from many other languages. By comparison, look what has become of the French lexicon as a result of the protectionism of the Académie Française, for instance. Compared to the vast lexicon of English, French has a relatively small vocabulary, and this surely affects how people can express themselves. There have been many lingua francas since antiquity. (Spanish had its time.) I don't think that English will lose its lingua franca status in my lifetime, but it will eventually. I fully agree. im obviously a massive supporter of Scottish Gaelic , and im amazed the language actually survives today despite centuries of oppression and neglect. English's was spread by empire , but its kept at the top of the tree today because of the United States. American English is whats being learned and spoken across the globe , and British English retreating . There is a big movement in Scotland to push the Scottish dialect of Middle English , and English , despite the misnomer , which is only called English because of a fifteenth century pr stunt , is today no longer the sole preserve of the Englishman . I am too! Isn't Scots already recognised as a language in its own right? |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 19:47:48 GMT
I fully agree. im obviously a massive supporter of Scottish Gaelic , and im amazed the language actually survives today despite centuries of oppression and neglect. English's was spread by empire , but its kept at the top of the tree today because of the United States. American English is whats being learned and spoken across the globe , and British English retreating . There is a big movement in Scotland to push the Scottish dialect of Middle English , and English , despite the misnomer , which is only called English because of a fifteenth century pr stunt , is today no longer the sole preserve of the Englishman . I am too! Isn't Scots already recognised as a language in its own right? it is recognised as a language in its own right. It began as a dialect of Middle English , introduced into Scotland by the Norman French , and the native speakers originally called it Inglis , and Scots called it beurla sassunach , speech English , and today in Gaelic its just beurla the speech. By the end of the fifteenth century , Gavin Douglas was the first scot to call it Scots , and gaelic lost its mantle as the speech of the Scottish elite. By the end of the 16th century, and the approaching union , the Scottish elite paved the way for standard southern English to become the language of Scotland , and here we are today , most Scots speak a watered down version of Scots , but write a silly standardised English that no one actually speaks. |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 20, 2024 21:03:59 GMT
I am too! Isn't Scots already recognised as a language in its own right? it is recognised as a language in its own right. It began as a dialect of Middle English , introduced into Scotland by the Norman French , and the native speakers originally called it Inglis , and Scots called it beurla sassunach , speech English , and today in Gaelic its just beurla the speech. By the end of the fifteenth century , Gavin Douglas was the first scot to call it Scots , and gaelic lost its mantle as the speech of the Scottish elite. By the end of the 16th century, and the approaching union , the Scottish elite paved the way for standard southern English to become the language of Scotland , and here we are today , most Scots speak a watered down version of Scots , but write a silly standardised English that no one actually speaks. How do you mean? Can you show me an example of silly standardised English that no-one actually speaks? |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 21:12:49 GMT
it is recognised as a language in its own right. It began as a dialect of Middle English , introduced into Scotland by the Norman French , and the native speakers originally called it Inglis , and Scots called it beurla sassunach , speech English , and today in Gaelic its just beurla the speech. By the end of the fifteenth century , Gavin Douglas was the first scot to call it Scots , and gaelic lost its mantle as the speech of the Scottish elite. By the end of the 16th century, and the approaching union , the Scottish elite paved the way for standard southern English to become the language of Scotland , and here we are today , most Scots speak a watered down version of Scots , but write a silly standardised English that no one actually speaks. How do you mean? Can you show me an example of silly standardised English that no-one actually speaks? what I mean is all Scots , certainly when I was at school , were taught standard English , in terms of writing .No Scots writing was taught or allowed , or encouraged. Scots is different in grammar vocabulary and pronounciation to standard English . I speak the Glasgow lallans , and moray loon I would imagine speaks doric. Doric is almost totally unintelligible to an English speaker , from memory because it was heavily influenced by the flemish speakers centuries ago in the north east im told. |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 20, 2024 23:04:32 GMT
How do you mean? Can you show me an example of silly standardised English that no-one actually speaks? what I mean is all Scots , certainly when I was at school , were taught standard English , in terms of writing .No Scots writing was taught or allowed , or encouraged. Scots is different in grammar vocabulary and pronounciation to standard English . I speak the Glasgow lallans , and moray loon I would imagine speaks doric. Doric is almost totally unintelligible to an English speaker , from memory because it was heavily influenced by the flemish speakers centuries ago in the north east im told. Surely some Scots speak standard English, more or less? |
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