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Post by sandypine on Nov 26, 2022 16:19:12 GMT
Unfortunately over the years we have seen school trips open to BAME pupils only, we have seen many training programmes specifically stated to be for BAME personnel only, we see government funds go to the likes of OBV who work only for BAME candidates as trainees and mentoring schemes and refer to their mission as the home of 'black politics' whatever that is and we also know that white candidates can be rejected legally if they are assessed as being equal to a BAME candidate. I would have thought one example of legal racial discrimination was too many. Do you have any recent UK examples of such school trips? I can find DM outrage in 2007 which is not really a cause for alarm today. As for OBV it is about addressing why Black people tend not to vote (the clue being in their Operation Black Vote) name so it's hard to see why they would initiate activities with whites. And to encourage them to vote there are training programmes for BAME only in all aspects of law and politics. Why would black people only vote if there was a black candidate. The presence of Dianne Abbott (and lately many others) has no significant effect in reducing the white vote in the constituencies within which they are MPs or Councillors. Ten years ago there were many examples of such school trips, they seem to have learned their lesson or are keeping them quiet, mind you with getting on for 100 schools with no white pupils at all there are bound to be many such school trips around just by default. I can recall when Powell said there was one such class the press were over it like a rash as a lie and were at great pains to prove him wrong, even if he was very close and probably right within a year or two.. So black politics is encouraging black people to vote. You really do not see it as incongruous that there are two types of politics, politics for all and politics for black people
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2022 16:20:18 GMT
No it isn't Mag note: Sorry Zany. I wiped out some of your reply How? You can't edit my posts?
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2022 16:26:19 GMT
I can but I certainly wouldn't intentionally. There are two buttons with very different functions right next to each other. Both buttons open up the same interface, but one edits and the other replies. My apologies. Your post went on talk about the availability of black people btw
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2022 16:31:12 GMT
Yes it is. Of course European institutions and organisations are going to be heavily dominated by white people. They were created in places entirely demographically dominated by white people (Europe) It's really not a million miles from the sort of thing Adolf Hitler did.I hate it when you pretend to be stupid. We are talking about the percentages of each. 10,000 white counters 1,000 black counters yet not one black counter on your table. Chance or design? What tosh black people have been around plenty long enough to be equally represented.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2022 16:32:17 GMT
I can but I certainly wouldn't intentionally. There are two buttons with very different functions right next to each other. Both buttons open up the same interface, but one edits and the other replies. My apologies. Your post went on talk about the availability of black people btw No probs. And I trust you implicitly.
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2022 17:17:54 GMT
We are talking about the percentages of each. 10,000 white counters 1,000 black counters yet not one black counter on your table In that case, I can't see what is wrong with arguing that, until quite recently, the number of black counters was very small. Of course, the reality of how a society works is a lot more complex than than a flat, instantaneous proportion. It is also made of history - ie how long families and friends with connections have been here. It may take two generations + before families of new entrants (whatever their colour) are suitably connected and wired in to (say) even consider entering government or being recommended by friends for certain influential positions in society. This is not a malfunction of society, it is how all functioning societies work. This is why I say your accusation is an invented crime and pretext. You are singling out one group in particular, and singling them out for doing exactly what all functioning groups do. Further, you are demanding that - just for this one group and just that one group in particular - this crime requires special racist retribution. This is a nonsense (confused) position or it is a racist one. My reference to Hitler was meant to be somewhat jovial, but there is some merit to the comparison. The story the Nazis presented about the Jewish people bears some striking similarities to your narrative. The Nazis claimed that the Jewish people had a history of discriminating against ethic Germans - ie that they either refused to hire them or would hire them on low wages, colluded against them and blocked entry to education etc etc. Further, that this discrimination amounted to a historical crime that demanded redress and retribution.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2022 17:41:14 GMT
We are talking about the percentages of each. 10,000 white counters 1,000 black counters yet not one black counter on your table Other than the fact that until recently means over a hundred years. Nothing instantaneous about it. Discrimination against blacks has been around since the 1800's plenty of time for many generations of workers to have died and been replaced. As for being suitably connected, what does joining the police force have to do with connections, other than racism. You might well get a job due to your fathers connections, but not in the public services. Not in the fire brigade. Don't do Hitler references, they don't work. fin
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Post by Orac on Nov 26, 2022 20:04:48 GMT
Other than the fact that until recently means over a hundred years. The number of black people living in Britian 1922 was tiny. The large numbers you earlier referenced are very recent. Nothing instantaneous about it. Discrimination against blacks has been around since the 1800's. Now you have switched tack - to there was racial discrimination in the 1800s (ie over a hundred years ago and everywhere). Okay. Historically, there has been plenty of what you call 'discrimination' - as i point out, historically virtually all functioning societies and groups seem to have been made of what you call 'discrimination'. There has been 'discrimination' aganst blacks, whites, chinese, slavs, jews, redheads, the stupid, the handicapped, short people and people with speech impediments While, on the one hand appearing to view this as an unforgicvable crime, you also appear to be using this observation itself to argue for the discimoinatory targeting of one particular group. That's a bit odd and contradictory imo Don't do Hitler references, they don't work. Although Hitler did also argue for the targeting of a racial group on the basis of a historical grievance
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Post by zanygame on Nov 26, 2022 23:26:02 GMT
Other than the fact that until recently means over a hundred years. you have figures to back up that statement? Tiny is meaningless, even more so when you consider you chose my start date. How many by 1972? Nothing instantaneous about it. Discrimination against blacks has been around since the 1800's. I said since. Yes we are trying to go forward and stop doing that. Tired argument, been answered a hundred times. If yo are still back there I not coming back to get you. Don't do Hitler references, they don't work. Although Hitler did also argue for the targeting of a racial group on the basis of a historical grievance So much other history driving Hitler's decisions, comparisons are fruitless and usually designed to align your opponent with the intolerable.
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Post by see2 on Nov 27, 2022 16:00:53 GMT
Other than the fact that until recently means over a hundred years. The number of black people living in Britian 1922 was tiny. The large numbers you earlier referenced are very recent. Nothing instantaneous about it. Discrimination against blacks has been around since the 1800's. Now you have switched tack - to there was racial discrimination in the 1800s (ie over a hundred years ago and everywhere). Okay. Historically, there has been plenty of what you call 'discrimination' - as i point out, historically virtually all functioning societies and groups seem to have been made of what you call 'discrimination'. There has been 'discrimination' aganst blacks, whites, chinese, slavs, jews, redheads, the stupid, the handicapped, short people and people with speech impediments While, on the one hand appearing to view this as an unforgicvable crime, you also appear to be using this observation itself to argue for the discimoinatory targeting of one particular group. That's a bit odd and contradictory imo Don't do Hitler references, they don't work. Although Hitler did also argue for the targeting of a racial group on the basis of a historical grievance Hitler targeted more than one racial group all on false evidence and insinuations and all with the intention of spreading Germanisation to areas inside and outside of Germany.
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Post by Orac on Nov 27, 2022 16:25:24 GMT
Hitler targeted more than one racial group all on false evidence and insinuations That's certainly an intriguing perspective - but a bit perplexing Do you think the discriminatory targeting of a race is justified / moral, if the evidence against the race is good enough? Ie as in the case of white people and their historic crimes.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 27, 2022 16:45:24 GMT
Hitler targeted more than one racial group all on false evidence and insinuations That's certainly an intriguing perspective - but a bit perplexing Do you think the discriminatory targeting of a race is justified / moral, if the evidence against the race is good enough? Ie as in the case of white people and their historic crimes. I think when one targets any racial group there may be an element of truth but then that is lost in the need to show just how bad they were. That is true of all those targeted by the Nazis and today against white people in general and British white people in particular.
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Post by see2 on Nov 28, 2022 9:37:47 GMT
That's certainly an intriguing perspective - but a bit perplexing Do you think the discriminatory targeting of a race is justified / moral, if the evidence against the race is good enough? Ie as in the case of white people and their historic crimes. I think when one targets any racial group there may be an element of truth but then that is lost in the need to show just how bad they were. That is true of all those targeted by the Nazis and today against white people in general and British white people in particular. In what way are British white people in particular targeted ?
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Post by see2 on Nov 28, 2022 9:44:12 GMT
Hitler targeted more than one racial group all on false evidence and insinuations That's certainly an intriguing perspective - but a bit perplexing Do you think the discriminatory targeting of a race is justified / moral, if the evidence against the race is good enough? Ie as in the case of white people and their historic crimes. I'm in favour of reality and truth. That doesn't even suggest that I am in favour of "targeting" any racial group except in the non-vicious terms of reasonable debate.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 28, 2022 15:27:46 GMT
I think when one targets any racial group there may be an element of truth but then that is lost in the need to show just how bad they were. That is true of all those targeted by the Nazis and today against white people in general and British white people in particular. In what way are British white people in particular targeted ? Their history, their culture, their ability to form associations with each other, the employment/race laws that specifically work against them and the ignoring of their wish, frequently democratically expressed, not to be inundated in their own country by other ethnic groups.
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